CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #33 *ARREST*

[Love Never Fails]

Yeah, this interview backs up what many of us have thought about both of them.

Typically, a domestic murder is proceeded by conflict and abuse.

So that fits.

We thought Kelsey was probably introverted, quiet, and reserved.

I’m a bit surprised that she communicated this much to her friend, but as expected, it appears to have been a bit short on specifics.

It’s a match made in hell if you think about it. An abuser on one hand, and a fairly isolated victim on the other.

He’d be abusive to her only in private, so only those two would know about it.

She wasn’t one to advertise this sort of thing, especially considering she appeared to have hope that the relationship would work out.

So her personality made her reluctant to talk, and her hope for the future would have led to her minimizing what was really going on.

And in replying to Dave about him seeing two different women in two different locations. He was likely only seeing Kelsey to see his baby. Kelsey may have in fact believed that if she moved closer to him and bought a home that he would commit to her and he may have hated that she moved closer. Or who knows, maybe he wanted her to move closer so he could get the child and then realized he had to get rid of Kelsey. I still don’t believe he wanted KL. She was just a part of his plan to rid himself of KB. How awful.

 

[Kapua]

If KB’s friend is truthful, and I believe she is, then KB was a genuinely good person. It appears you were correct in sizing up PF in the beginning. I must admit KL looked really bad and I can still believe she had a hand in this murder and that a third person was somehow involved. But it is all on PF. I still believe he wanted his daughter but had to get rid of KB in his mind as she didn’t fit into his life any longer. What a selfish piece of humanity he is.

I am 50/50 on if he really wanted his daughter or if he knew that he couldn't get away with killing her, too. But I hope you are right. Maybe he directed his anger toward KB, but not toward his child. Maybe he sees his daughter as a part of him. MOO

 

[SandyQLS]

In one of the earliest interviews of KB Uncle in WA State, I recall him stating that Colorado (Grand Junction) was an opportunity for KB to pursue her dream job, and closer to PF. I've long believed that KB's job offer in Colorado was first, and this potential Colorado suitor (PF) was icing on the cake. MOO

I found 2 of the older articles quoting the uncle, but no mention of the mystery of Grand Junction. ***shrug*** Maybe it was video.

Fiancé of Missing Colorado Mom Kelsey Berreth Arrested on Murder Charge

Family: Kelsey Berreth moved to Colorado to be closer to Frazee

 

[ajaylee]

Regarding PF having two women at the same time: he met KB in 2016 and KK got divorced in 2016. I think I read that he met KB online and he had known KK for years, although she had married someone else.

 

[SFDukie]

I agree. It messes with our timeline I. Kelsey was living with a friend in Grand Junction while pregnant. I thought she moved to Woodland Park before she was pregnant. So when did Kelsey move to Woodland Park?

I guess PF went to Grand Junction often to visit Kelsey - for the friend to see their how relationship worked. idk

Why do we think KB lived in Grand junction? Per friend's statement quoted in article here-Kelsey Berreth's friend believes her fiancé was "borderline emotionally abusive"-
"They recently lived together in Colorado while Berreth, who was pregnant at the time with Frazee's child, was working nearby as a pilot."
Grand Junction is nowhere near Doss aviation. They're roughly 300 miles apart.
I may be missing something, obviously

 

[Love Never Fails]

I am 50/50 on if he really wanted his daughter or if he knew that he couldn't get away with killing her, too. But I hope you are right. Maybe he directed his anger toward KB, but not toward his child. Maybe he sees his daughter as a part of him. MOO

I am so glad his daughter is with he Berreths. His anger must be frightening to watch. That child didn’t need that!

 

[SFDukie]

The woman in the interview, Ashley Cogburn, lives in Grand Junction where Kelsey lived when she first moved to Colorado. Kelsey worked as a pilot in Grand Junction. Ashley and Kelsey grew up together in Washington state. Woodland Park and Grand Junction are about a five hour drive apart. So I guess PF visited in GJ often?

I missed the part of the timeline where KB worked in Grand Junction-can you point me to the link or timing? Thanks!

 

[oviedo]

Who was Kelsey Berreth? Quiet life apparently ends in tragedy

This article states:

"They met in March 2016, said Kate Loucado, who worked with Berreth for a short time."
...

And:

"In February 2017, Berreth told fellow pilot Kris Ackerman that she was getting married soon.

He last spoke with her in June 2017, when she told him she aspired to fly cargo deliveries or work as an airline pilot."

That's all I could find WRT to the timeline of when KB moved to CO.

I wonder if the "wedding date" was coming up and that helped PF decide in September to put his plan in action? I guess it depends on what "soon" means to you? JMO

 

[ajaylee]

I'm curious about PF's mother and her role, if any, in all of this.

Just me, but I tried to put myself in her shoes. My son has just been arrested for murdering the mother of his child, I'm in total shock and disbelief. He isn't saying much and it looks very bad.

In that situation, I can't see myself getting a lawyer and filing for custody of my son's child - not when the murdered mother's family is perfectly suitable and available. I just couldn't do it to another mother.

 

[Noharg]

I have confidence @PommyMommy will straighten this out. Maybe AC moved to WP to be with KB in late pregnancy, or vice versa with KB moving temporarily to Grand Junction with AC.

It is highly unlikely that KB was flying in her last trimester. There is no official rule on pregnancy from the FAA, but they have expressed their concerns:

FAA Medical Certification | Pregnancy | Pilot Medical Solutions - LeftSeat.com

She could have been in working in the classroom during her third trimester. JMO and thought.

 

[gliving]

Refresh my memory pls? Which article says Grand Junction?

I watched the interview live on CBS This Morning.

 

[SFDukie]

I'm catching up after the long weekend-a few comments.
Bill Carson asked in previous thread Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #32 *ARREST* about pilot info. Answer is no, at least by last name search of the two names on FAA airmen database w/ ID address.
Bill and Wander 24 had some comments on airstrips-a source for that info is the Sectional aeronautical chart which will include all strips registered w/ FAA-public and private. VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts
There are some short private strips nearby but their use can be essentially ruled out IMO. If someone wants to know that reasoning I can elaborate.

 

[SandyQLS]

Remember that the defense ONLY has to create a shadow of a doubt. The KK story has been inserted into the case by the press, and has not been repudiated by the prosecution. It is a tale of long distance romantic affair, tinged with at least the implied threat of abuse, culminating in the solicitation to commit murder. Now, that must be addressed in conjunction with this story, that PF was simultaneously carrying on a long distance, romantic affair, borderline abusive affair with KB at the exact same time. Not on the same day, but at the same time for six to seven months minimum. Logic rules that PF did not appear have the time, income or transportation to support this much activity. It's a crack that could very well lead to "shadow of a doubt" in court.

Okay, so you see a logistical issue rising. Thanks for your reply.

JUST MY OPINION FOLLOWS:

I think the case against PF has a big hole in the middle, like a donut hole. No doubt LE thinks he is responsible for the presumed murder of KB, but the two different murder charges were filed based on two different theories of the crime. Add the preemptive wrongful death suit by the B's, and the overall impression is that LE is having a hard time nailing PF specifically. I think he has an airtight alibi, too - he picked up Baby K and likely was thereafter all weekend in the company of others, likely F family & friends Thanksgiving activities. PF received a text Sunday 11/25 from KB's phone. These are the only facts we really have.

Enter KK per the R's interview. She is the worst sort of witness. The Defense would start by exposing any immunity or deal she got and implying she is lying to save herself. Then the Defense will back off, be more friendly asking about her rodeo queen days, nursing school, marriage and kids... then her divorce after only 6 years. If anything in the divorce would be detrimental to KK's character or veracity, the Defense will go at her like a pit bull to the jugular. Then comes the issues about her relationship with PF - romance? adultery while she was married? carrying a torch for PF since HS? cheating with an engaged man with baby? The Defense will ultimately accuse her of murdering KB for her own motives, jealousy, scorned woman. When the Defense is done with KK, the Prosecution will have a hard time rehabilitating their necessary star witness, the damage will be done. Then the Defense will call witnesses to refute KK's statements about her relationship and public interactions with PF, making KK look even worse, and undermining her testimony. KK is a witness who cannot tell the truth because it condems her, she cannot lie because it will all be uncovered, and there is no case against PF if she takes the 5th.

As you note, the Defense only need plant reasonable doubt in the mind of ONE juror, and KK, who according to the R's had the phone in Idaho and sent the texts, is that seed that will blossom into a whole tree. I don't think KK had a mandatory reporter issue as an RN re: what KK claims PF said about "KB was unstable and might harm the baby" - (myself I don't think PF ever said that; I think KK and BFF/M made that up) - but she looks morally bankrupt in the entire matter and like she has her own motive.

As it is, hung jury. We'll see more evidence ... some day ... hopefully it will be clarifying.

THE PRECEDING IS JUST MY OPINION, MORE LIKE A THEORY, AND NOT FACTS. JMO MOO IMO

 

[Mercedes]

Remember that the defense ONLY has to create a shadow of a doubt. The KK story has been inserted into the case by the press, and has not been repudiated by the prosecution. It is a tale of long distance romantic affair, tinged with at least the implied threat of abuse, culminating in the solicitation to commit murder. Now, that must be addressed in conjunction with this story, that PF was simultaneously carrying on a long distance, romantic affair, borderline abusive affair with KB at the exact same time. Not on the same day, but at the same time for six to seven months minimum. Logic rules that PF did not appear have the time, income or transportation to support this much activity. It's a crack that could very well lead to "shadow of a doubt" in court.

Dave F,

You say to “...remember...”

I say, “How can I remember that which I never knew?”

To explain, the burden of proof in a criminal trial is

“beyond a reasonable doubt.” Mostly that is

interpreted as 99%.

In other words, the D.A. must prove, to a jury, that PF

is guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden

of proof is on the D.A. The defendant is presumed to be

innocent. However, if the D.A. presents a compelling

case, the defense will want to create reasonable doubt to

thwart the D.A.’s burden.

“Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt” is movie and television

legal vernacular.

 

[SFDukie]

She could have been in working in the classroom during her third trimester. JMO and thought.

That's a good point. Esp true of an outfit such as Doss, which is providing primary flight instruction for the military.
She was instrument rated, but not as instructor-meaning she could not do IFR flight simulator instruction (although FAA database runs "behind" certification-takes a while for new certs to appear-esp so now due to shutdown, I'd guess)-so if she'd recently become a CFII (cert flight instructor, instrument) as opposed to "just" a CFI (all that's listed) she could have done instrument sim without leaving the ground.

(edited to remove fragment of another unrelated ? I had)

 

[InvSmith]

Well, this matches with what we had gathered from his reported demeanor unfortunately. I am just so glad KB's young girl is in a safe place.

 

[SandyQLS]

I watched the interview live on CBS This Morning.

Yeah! The little clip online doesn't cover that nor does the print article. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Mimi in London]

On the subject of PF’s alibi.

IMO He must have enjoyed working out in advance how he could account for his whereabouts that weekend.

His family and friends have probably never seen so much of him.

I can imagine him hanging out at a friend’s place waiting for That Text. And then reading it out loud.

 

[InvSmith]

There is a huge opening for the defense revealed in the CBS interview, in that this potential direct witness to PF’s “borderline abusive” behavior said she and KB lived together during the time that she was pregnant. The woman has never lived near Woodland Park, leaving only the choice that KB lived with her family, an eight hour round trip. The RR’s have also asserted to CBS that during the same period PF was actively involved in a romantic but abusive affair with KK, who lives 22 round trip hours distant. The amount of time and gasoline required to pull it off staggers the imagination. This early in the process is NOT a good time for cracks to start appearing in the prosecution’s case.

What? We have a deceased female and an arrested suspect with a known associate with the victim's phone that took at least one trip. These are the facts of the case.

 

[Dave F.]

Okay, so you see a logistical issue rising. Thanks for your reply.

JUST MY OPINION FOLLOWS:

I think the case against PF has a big hole in the middle, like a donut hole. No doubt LE thinks he is responsible for the presumed murder of KB, but the two different murder charges were filed based on two different theories of the crime. Add the preemptive wrongful death suit by the B's, and the overall impression is that LE is having a hard time nailing PF specifically. I think he has an airtight alibi, too - he picked up Baby K and likely was thereafter all weekend in the company of others, likely F family & friends Thanksgiving activities. PF received a text Sunday 11/25 from KB's phone. These are the only facts we really have.

Enter KK per the R's interview. She is the worst sort of witness. The Defense would start by exposing any immunity or deal she got and implying she is lying to save herself. Then the Defense will back off, be more friendly asking about her rodeo queen days, nursing school, marriage and kids... then her divorce after only 6 years. If anything in the divorce would be detrimental to KK's character or veracity, the Defense will go at her like a pit bull to the jugular. Then comes the issues about her relationship with PF - romance? adultery while she was married? carrying a torch for PF since HS? cheating with an engaged man with baby? The Defense will ultimately accuse her of murdering KB for her own motives, jealousy, scorned woman. When the Defense is done with KK, the Prosecution will have a hard time rehabilitating their necessary star witness, the damage will be done. Then the Defense will call witnesses to refute KK's statements about her relationship and public interactions with PF, making KK look even worse, and undermining her testimony. KK is a witness who cannot tell the truth because it condems her, she cannot lie because it will all be uncovered, and there is no case against PF if she takes the 5th.

As you note, the Defense only need plant reasonable doubt in the mind of ONE juror, and KK, who according to the R's had the phone in Idaho and sent the texts, is that seed that will blossom into a whole tree. I don't think KK had a mandatory reporter issue as an RN re: what KK claims PF said about "KB was unstable and might harm the baby" - (myself I don't think PF ever said that; I think KK and BFF/M made that up) - but she looks morally bankrupt in the entire matter and like she has her own motive.

As it is, hung jury. We'll see more evidence ... some day ... hopefully it will be clarifying.

THE PRECEDING IS JUST MY OPINION, MORE LIKE A THEORY, AND NOT FACTS. JMO MOO IMO

Everything that you say makes perfect sense, except there are two qualifying factors:
A witness subpoenaed in another state cannot be extradited in a criminal proceeding. KK simply had to "take the fifth" and refuse to appear. This is not true of evidence, and it's not true in a civil suit. However, third party witnesses are not always hearsay in a criminal trial for Solicitation, so the RR's and the elusive BFF are both subject to testimony, and cannot "take the fifth".
In a "no body" murder trial, there is an extensive opening phase in which the prosecution attempts to establish proof that she is no longer living the life that is expected of her, and nor is she in the places that she would be expected to be. To do this, hundreds of witnesses can be called by the prosecution, and each one is subject to cross examination. Likewise, the defense can call anyone that ever knew KB. Any of these witnesses can later be called back, if there is anything in the testimony that would have bearing on the actual charges against PF. IMO