Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #33 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Irmese

    Irmese Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    5,075
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Selling dogs is not pure profit. It costs to raise them, too, and a lot of time for training. Of all his jobs, I'm not sure farrier is the one he spends the most time on and we have no knowledge of how much he's charging or how many horses he's working on per week. He's also got cattle, right? I don't know if he's raising calves to sell for beef, but that would be a significant amount of time and cost caring for them. Does he raise 20 a year or 2000? I have no doubt he might have significant income, but he also has significant costs associated with it.
     
  2. NoeticSoul

    NoeticSoul Learning is a gift, even if pain is your teacher.

    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    13,814
    Trophy Points:
    113
    KB's drive time to work discussion is like beating a dead horse already! Yes, pun intended related to PF. Good morning.
     
    MrsM, allboys, susiQ and 16 others like this.
  3. makayla

    makayla Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,270
    Likes Received:
    3,071
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I completely agree Hatfield, but we are coming from a position of normal minds, and obviously something is askew with PF’s mind and the minds of all other people who are capable of planning and committing murder. I am frustrated like you, because we would have gone through a custody arrangement and moved on, so it’s hard for us to conceive that anyone would go to the extreme of murder over custody or money, or even control of another person. People like PF are wired differently IMO so they don’t think like we do. Sadly, this is why we see too many women, and occasionally men, murdered. I watch programs like Dateline, American Greed, 48 Hours etc. and over and over again you see people like PF, JA, SP and countless others who have some screw loose that prevents them from acting in good conscience like we would. It’s so sad and terribly frustrating ... we ask ourselves why, and we will never understand the mind of a killer. I just hope that all involved in this case are tried and convicted. It breaks my heart every time I see an innocent life taken, and their families’ lives changed forever. All IMHO ...
     
    Denisedyann, MrsM, libraryg and 15 others like this.
  4. WildWest

    WildWest Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    3,009
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I read Jan 16, could you tell me what you found interesting?
     
  5. Dave F.

    Dave F. Has left the building.

    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    6,372
    Trophy Points:
    93
    The article at the link below doesn't really answer the question, but it clearly shows that the rights of an incarcerated parent can be hotly contested, all the way to the Supreme Court in very recent cases.
    Child Custody Resources: Can Parental Rights be Terminated When a Parent is Incarcerated? - LawInfo
     
    MsBetsy, ajaylee and Hatch like this.
  6. Auntie Cipation

    Auntie Cipation Context Matters.

    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    4,728
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I wonder if the cattle auction site shows archives, and if so, whether we could see how many of what category of cattle PF sold over the last several years -- any this time of year? Any other "complete dispersal" sales? Could give some perspective as to whether this is normal for him or indicates a closing down of the ranch activities.

    It does make sense to me, though, that he would sell off anything that requires enough active maintenance that family can't or doesn't want to do. I don't think it's for the money per se but because he's not there to do the work, and there's not enough profit in it to hire others to do it.

    If that's the reason, then he might also sell off any dogs that weren't pets but were for training or breeding or working cattle dogs for his own operation. Anyone know of a website that would show current sales of cattle dogs? Or for the horses?
     
    FromGermany, Irmese, MsBetsy and 2 others like this.
  7. Yellow Rose

    Yellow Rose Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    19,892
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Missing Colorado Mom Update: Kelsey Berreth's Fiancé Wants Wrongful Death Lawsuit Dismissed

    "While the decision of the court is yet to come, even if the lawsuit is dismissed Berreth's parents can still file again on behalf of Kaylee. Earlier this month, a court ruled that one-year-old Kaylee would remain in the custody of Cheryl and Darrell Berreth, and child protective services.

    Frazee's lawyers also claimed in the motion that the Berreths did not suffer any emotional distress, and thus the damages related to the claim be dismissed from the case.

    In the wrongful death lawsuit the Berreths claimed that Frazee "enacted physical, mental, and emotional acts of violence upon Kelsey Berreth prior to her death." It also stated that "when Frazee acted as either the perpetrator or accessory to the murder of Kelsey Berreth, Frazee breached the duty of care with which a reasonable person should conduct himself toward another human being."

    (I personally find that extremely offensive that the Berreths did not suffer any emotional distress, REALLY?)
     
  8. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,502
    Likes Received:
    90,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the reason some think that brain matter, tissue, lots of blood, or tiny bone fragments may have been found is that there must be some evidence that makes LE so sure that the victim is deceased. Some speculate that would have been the evidence they found, and possibly the tub was involved. It may have also been the loud noises the neighbors heard, as well as the many pieces of evidence carried out of the house.
    Others speculated the body may have been burned, or somehow destroyed completely, leaving little left.
    We really don't have much to go by so I guess there are numerous possibilities. If PF doesn't tell anyone what he did, her body may never be found and we may never find out how he disposed of it. Imo
     
  9. WildWest

    WildWest Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    3,009
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Can you give your perspective if 94 head is more like a hobby, or could someone actually make a living on 94?
     
    Aydrianna523, MsBetsy and ajaylee like this.
  10. jmk59

    jmk59 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    265
    Trophy Points:
    53
    I would think it would be standard practice for LE to collect all P-traps from the suspected crime scene. Any post cleanup would require some water and rising (into sinks or tub/shower). To get to a second floor tub/shower P-trap, you would get ladder and a sawzall and cut a hole in the downstairs ceiling to gain access. These P-traps trap (get it) all sorts of things that most people assume are just washed away.
     
    Elle*Bee, Allygator, kimpage and 16 others like this.
  11. Dave F.

    Dave F. Has left the building.

    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    6,372
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Do we really need to be checking financials to determine that PF's activities have been cut back recently?
     
    Eleanor Rigby likes this.
  12. Auntie Cipation

    Auntie Cipation Context Matters.

    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    4,728
    Trophy Points:
    93
    ITA. I was responding to the suggestion that we have "compelling indication" that the bathtub/plumbing was involved, rather than it being speculation based on general statistics of murders.

    No, and that's not what I was suggesting. Others had described the sale as being a typical thing for this time of year, and wondering whether "complete dispersal" meant of the offered lot rather than of all holdings. I was mentioning one idea of how this year's auction could be put into context. I'm of complete agreement that it was to close out his ranch responsibilities. But I always favor more contextual information over simple speculation.
     
  13. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    3,175
    Likes Received:
    12,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    While I know this looks really bad and insensitive, this is a correct response by his attorney. To recover damages for emotional distress, you have to show that you were the one injured or that you actually witnessed the injury to a loved one. That didn't happen here, so I suspect this motion be granted at least in part. When this suit was filed I thought it seemed rushed and a little sloppy. The "standing" issue can eventually be corrected but I just don't know why the Barreth's attorneys didn't go through the correct steps to begin with.
     
  14. crhedBngr

    crhedBngr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,107
    Likes Received:
    16,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    RBBM

    First chuckle of the day, thanks!

    RBBM

    Good morning to All!

    rainbowCoffeeClipped_150.png
     
    Allygator, kimpage, susiQ and 7 others like this.
  15. Dave F.

    Dave F. Has left the building.

    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    6,372
    Trophy Points:
    93
    @PrairieWind:
    The child is currently in the legal custody of the Teller County offfice of the Colorado DHS, while in the temporary physical custody of the plaintiffs who are Idaho residents. Custody is an active legal issue which is not likely to be resolved soon. Can a Teller county, Colorado resident use federal court to sue another Teller county, Colorado resident, for damages incurred by an incident that happened solely in Teller county, Colorado? Not trying to put you on the spot, or start another round of speculation, but it seems to me that there might be a way deeper issue in the motion than a hasty filing.
     
    MsBetsy and ajaylee like this.
  16. ajaylee

    ajaylee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,001
    Likes Received:
    5,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I thought the whole point of the lawsuit was to allow them to depose PF.

    If so, then they don't need a compelling case - winning is not the ultimate object. They just need the case not to get thrown out before PF is questioned.

    Question for the legal minds: what happens in a civil case if the defendant refuses to answer questions? Contempt of court?

    I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is going to compel PF to talk if he doesn't want to. I think he'll be another Casey Anthony in this regard.
     
  17. Irmese

    Irmese Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    5,075
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think this is related to questions of PF's income. Some WS members think he had financial motives and others think he was well fixed for money and it was not a motive. I think protecting his money was a motive. I believe the cattle part might be Ma's business, that he works for her. MOO.
    Edited to correct wording.
     
  18. Dave F.

    Dave F. Has left the building.

    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    6,372
    Trophy Points:
    93
    That's really hard to say. Ultimately, the profit is the sale total less the aquisition & production costs and taxes. They vary dramatically from producer to producer. However, someone posted that PF had a poor credit score, which would indicate that credit wasn't involved in his cattle acquisition. I would say that any 32 year old who has $100,000 cash invested in a single asset is doing more than okay. He could easily be earning enough to buy some luxury items like a few extra Tonka trucks and Woody toys.
     
  19. Dave F.

    Dave F. Has left the building.

    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    6,372
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Many cattle producers start with little or nothing, running a few cattle on open range or leased land. For a century and a half, the most common term for it is "coyoting". Some never acquire much land, as leasing is economically a better business model. To qualify for US Forest Service High Altitude Grazing Permits, a rancher must own a base ranch of 35 acres, or be able to show legal proof that he/she is the heir to 35 acres, or has made a firm commitment to buy said 35 acres and can demonstrate the ability to pay when due, independent of the profits of the grazing permit. IMO
     
  20. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    3,175
    Likes Received:
    12,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The short answer is "no." A Teller County resident (or any Colorado resident) could not use federal court to sue another resident of Teller County or Colorado. "Diversity" is required, ie must be of different states. They would need to use state court for that.
     
    KathrynL, sassyblue, SFDukie and 9 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice