CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #34 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

I just don’t get the feeling that this is a psychopathic murder. This was planned and motive driven. I just can’t figure out what that motive is.

People with APD (Antisocial Personality Disorder) are very capable of planning.

Not saying PF has APD, but based on what little we know, it would not at all surprise me.
PF is dumb, so of course his planning and motives are both going to be very base and (because he's stupid) highly illogical.

IMO, PF has almost no executive functioning skills.
But I'm sure he imagines himself to be a real clever dude.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Yellow Rose, what a beautiful thought! Thank you for voicing it.

The one consolation and glimmer of hope in all of this darkness is that Baby K. will be reared in a nurturing environment by two loving (grand)parents who have a proven capacity to raise children who go on to become responsible, caring adults and upstanding citizens.

After all, they raised Kelsey...and she was a wonderful human being!

I agree. GREAT GRANDPARENTS have even raised a great grandchild. People are living longer so its very doable, as I think about it.

 

[MsBetsy]

I just don’t get the feeling that this is a psychopathic murder. This was planned and motive driven. I just can’t figure out what that motive is.

Yet psychopaths can very good at planning and deceiving but not so good at realistically considering the consequences. Imo

 

[GordianKnot]

I agree. GREAT GRANDPARENTS have even raised a great grandchild. People are living longer so its very doable, as I think about it.

Agreed. KB was only 29, so KB's parents could easily be somewhere in their late 40s to 50s now.

I know plenty of men who've had kids in their late 40s and 50s.

There's no reason whatsoever to think KB's parents won't be able to raise Baby K.

 

[Seattle1]

So, MG, IMO, you're really, really close to nailing it here, son....as always, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

While not normally one to split hairs (daily conditioner use helps), for lack of anything better to do on this thread until the 19th, I'll just say my trail of thought is very similar to yours, but yours is like a mirror image of mine. Inverted.

Flip the clauses in your 2 sentences above, and it pretty much reflects my thinking:

He didn't want to pay child support, so he wanted sole (or whatever would be least costly to him) custody arrangements.

I keep coming back to this having something to do with finances, and part of that was the child.

IMO, the motive was driven solely by PF's needs and wants, along w/ his self-consumed ego.
PF is a cold, narcissistic little *****.
PF cares about PF, not Baby K....as evidenced by the fact that he murdered (IMO) Baby's K's loving mother, upon whom Baby K was dependent to meet her physical, emotional and developmental needs. That attachment was critical for Baby K. PF irrevocably severed that mother-child bond.
Like I said, it's really a distinction without a difference, because motive doesn't matter here. Whatever stupid reason PF manufactured in his hoof-addled brain for his evil deed, the end result is the same.
KB is dead.
All of the above: JMO.
O/T: Good luck to your team in the SB today, MG! We all know you're a huge fan!

By all accounts, PF resided with SF/Mom his entire life. In his narc mind, KB and/or maternal figure was easily replaceable with SF. The sooner KB was out of the picture, the better.

IMO, this was all about money and control.

 

[GordianKnot]

By all accounts, PF resided with SF/Mom his entire life. In his narc mind, KB and/or maternal figure was easily replaceable with SF. The sooner KB was out of the picture, the better.

IMO, this was all about money and control.

100% agree with your post, Seattle!

One hundred percent.

I will be absolutely shocked if money doesn't figure largely in this case. JMO.

 

[Hatch]

100% agree with your post, Seattle!

One hundred percent.

I agree 110%, but why involve KKL when PF could easily do his own bidding? Puzzling why involve another party !

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree 110%, but why involve KKL when PF could easily do his own bidding? Puzzling why involve another party !

He may have needed an alibi. Maybe he only needed help in covering up the crime, not just the actual murder. Imo

 

[Seattle1]

I agree 110%, but why involve KKL when PF could easily do his own bidding? Puzzling why involve another party !

If KKL thought she was the runner-up, hoping to take the crown when KB no longer around, PF was going to stop that dream in it's tracks! The fact that KKL gave PF the opportunity to allegedly solicit her a 2nd (and 3rd) time tells me all I need to know about her character. MOO

 

[Dave F.]

The private attorney assisting him in hiding assets in order to qualify for a PD would be unethical. I doubt he would have done so. Having said that, I wouldn't put it past PF to have done things like that from the time he heard KB was pregnant. Until we hear further, I am of the opinion the pregnancy was NOT planned and he was not happy with it.

If he did do any such thing, he would have lied under penalty of perjury on his application for a PD. Then again, what's a little perjury when you're looking at Murder 1?

I'm not disagreeing with what you say at all, but would like to add that the original attorney representing PF is very well known in Colorado Springs, and has a very good reputation.
I would also like to add a link to the Child Support Enforcement webpage of the Colorado DHS. I'm sure there are creative minds out there that will argue that PF would still think a way to avoid it, but my point is............in Colorado, it ain't easy, folks! IMO
Enforcement Remedies

 

[Hatch]

If KKL thought she was the runner-up, hoping to take the crown when KB no longer around, PF was going to stop that dream in it's tracks! The fact that KKL gave PF the opportunity to allegedly solicit her a 2nd (and 3rd) time tells me all I need to know about her character. MOO

I am thinking the plan may have been contemplated months before September 2018. If KKL participated in any way at anytime , I think it probable she lied about when he solicited her.

 

[Seattle1]

I am thinking the plan may have been contemplated months before September 2018. If KKL participated in any way at anytime , I think it probable she lied about when he solicited her.

If she's trying to save herself by cooperating with authorities, I think lying to investigators would be very foolish. However, I do agree there were likely hints about getting rid of KB prior to Sept 2018.

 

[Hatch]

If she's trying to save herself by cooperating with authorities, I think lying to investigators would be very foolish. However, I do agree there were likely hints about getting rid of KB prior to Sept 2018.

Fine print "True Love Ways" details we may never know .

 

[Seattle1]

Curious, could some of his assets have been transferred into SF’s name?
Didn’t he hire a private lawyer before he was arrested? Then, after arrest he went with a public defender? I suppose his private attorney informed him of $$$cost if he was charged and it went to trial - which was why he went with Public Defender.
I suspect PF “hid” his assets to avoid paying child support from the time his daughter was born, and he offered childcare instead - and KB was more interested in her child having the “father” relationship than child “support” in monetary terms. Which is another indicator of her truly good character. IMO.
He may have had to actually transfer (rather than simply hiding) assets on paper with the private attorney’s assistance in order to qualify for the public defender. Just speculating.

By all accounts, it appears PF has lived with SF his entire life. I really don't believe he has any assets to hide. Today's electronic records make it very easy to verify. Besides, getting caught lying on his application would cause him to reimburse the state, probably forfeiting the assets.

Relative to calculating any child support of 1 year old daughter, I think it more likely that PF simply limited his services to "cash only." Citing poor market conditions, I don't believe PF sold any livestock until just recently.

He had a good situation with SF. Seems to me PF's been able to control and/or manipulate his income stream long before he became a father. MOO

 

[Hatfield]

I just don’t get the feeling that this is a psychopathic murder. This was planned and motive driven. I just can’t figure out what that motive is.

JMO
I think the reason the motive is confusing to us is because it is a multi-faceted motive and it was more than just him that didn't mind if KB was no longer around.

The child and potential to have to pay KB money if she left played a huge role but also there was at least one other person that shared disdain for KB.

A huge hint that proves to me that the motive is a complex multiple motive is PF's own statements in feeling railroaded. He was mad that LE was looking at just him because he knew others were involved to get to the point where KB is dead.

"Frazee told her he felt “railroaded” by police, who he claimed seemed to be focused only on him."

Murder charges filed against man in case of missing Colorado mom

 

[mickey2942]

Man living with Mama over age 30=Run, do not walk away from this mess. Failure to launch.

No justifications. I understand all of the "reasons" why this situation could be perceived as normal. But, seriously, it is not. Most grown men have motivation to move forward with their adult life.

 

[nwmouse]

This had been planned for months, so whatever the motive was, it was something that he thought quite a bit about.

I don’t think life insurance is the motive, as those cases tend to have a body left behind. No killer is planning on waiting years to collect.

I keep coming back to this having something to do with the child, and perhaps part of that was financial.

He wanted sole custody, and didn’t want to have to pay child support.

From what I can gather of PF's character - his cruelty to animals, his treatment of KB - its all about control.

He likes to punish/hurt those who disobey him, human or animal.

I think this murder was about control and punishment because KB moved away and broke things off with him.

He wanted to maintain control and punish her for not obeying his wishes which likely involved him having sole custody of Baby K.

I also think he's a stone-cold psychopath who wanted to see if he could control and manipulate someone else to kill for him, as it made him feel powerful and boosted his ego. Plus he didn't want to get his hands dirty.

This is pure speculation on my part.

moo

 

[Mauig’ma]

L

I'm not disagreeing with what you say at all, but would like to add that the original attorney representing PF is very well known in Colorado Springs, and has a very good reputation.
I would also like to add a link to the Child Support Enforcement webpage of the Colorado DHS. I'm sure there are creative minds out there that will argue that PF would still think a way to avoid it, but my point is............in Colorado, it ain't easy, folks! IMO
Enforcement Remedies

Interesting.. Because I’ve been fighting to get CS for the past 12 yrs from my ex husband that lives in Colorado. I’ve yet to see a dime! All that money just bought him a brand new Cadillac sedan instead. I can relate to someone like PF. I was married to one! It’s sad KB had to deal with this A @*%# narcissist who has no value for life. Unbeknown to him his time is coming. And I for one can not wait!

 

[InvSmith]

A weird question that really bugs me is this, how many people in your life do you seriously know that you could ask to kill someone for you? Think about it. You have to believe they are capable of killing. Right? This is what is nuts. I seriously think, we may have a lot to learn about the dynamics here.

I think KB was a victim because of this triangle.

 

[InvSmith]

People with APD (Antisocial Personality Disorder) are very capable of planning.

Not saying PF has APD, but based on what little we know, it would not at all surprise me.
PF is dumb, so of course his planning and motives are both going to be very base and (because he's stupid) highly illogical.

IMO, PF has almost no executive functioning skills.
But I'm sure he imagines himself to be a real clever dude.

Exactly.