CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[Auntie Cipation]

I said the assumed date which has been said in the media and on posts. KB’s neighbor said PF’s truck was there all day on that day but didn’t consider it unusual. Also stated it was parked in such a manor as to block KB’s vehicles. Descriptive statement of the scene.
PF has two charges of first degree murder. One includes theft. Begs the question what did the DA think was stolen during the commission of this crime?
Hope that clarifies my reasoning. Very difficult case to understand.

Your reasoning is fine, but you are making unfounded assumptions and/or conflating things that are not equal.

First, the neighbor left her own home *sometime between 12:30 and 1pm* and as she did so, she observed PF's truck there. That is one moment of sighting, not a full half hour and definitely not an all day observation. If you've seen otherwise please provide the link so we can all see.

Second, there was no theft. Theft is not the same as robbery. And for that matter, while there was apparently a robbery, *there is no robbery charge*. What there is, is a charge of felony murder during the commission of a robbery. This charge has specific meanings that are different from a charge of murder, robbery, or theft. It has been discussed in detail earlier in these threads, with attorneys explaining the specifics. You can do a search for those conversations if you like.

We don't yet know what was stolen. It could be her phone and/or purse, as many believe, but they would have to be stolen or attempted to be stolen while KB was still alive, because the fear and threats she perceived are, as I understand it, what qualifies it for the felony murder charge.

Sorry if this seems nitpicky but these details matter, and the presumed "facts" will morph farther and farther from the truth if they aren't corrected when they first appear.

 

[InvSmith]

A key point is PF reportedly solicited the homicide of KB. There are only so many viable options and there are only limited people you could ask. Ultimately, it looks like he did the act himself but still involved the solicited person. This would tell us that he was 1) OK with asking 2) not afraid of being reported 3) asking well in advance 4) asking from a distance 5) involving her as an alibi 6) expecting secrecy after the fact and 7) KK as well thought she was safe from not being caught. This means she trusted him, her friend and the R's.

 

[gliving]

There are many, many things we'd like to hear from PF. But after hearing what KK thinks of him, I'd like to hear his opinion of her.

 

[susiQ]

Just wondering. The motion to "unseal" the probable cause affidavit was filed on Feb. 8th and delivered by fax to PF's attorney's the same day. How long do they have to respond? Nothing on Colorado Judicial Branch website yet.

 

[Snowsnake]

U

Your reasoning is fine, but you are making unfounded assumptions and/or conflating things that are not equal.

First, the neighbor left her own home *sometime between 12:30 and 1pm* and as she did so, she observed PF's truck there. That is one moment of sighting, not a full half hour and definitely not an all day observation. If you've seen otherwise please provide the link so we can all see.

Second, there was no theft. Theft is not the same as robbery. And for that matter, while there was apparently a robbery, *there is no robbery charge*. What there is, is a charge of felony murder during the commission of a robbery. This charge has specific meanings that are different from a charge of murder, robbery, or theft. It has been discussed in detail earlier in these threads, with attorneys explaining the specifics. You can do a search for those conversations if you like.

We don't yet know what was stolen. It could be her phone and/or purse, as many believe, but they would have to be stolen or attempted to be stolen while KB was still alive, because the fear and threats she perceived are, as I understand it, what qualifies it for the felony murder charge.

Sorry if this seems nitpicky but these details matter, and the presumed "facts" will morph farther and farther from the truth if they aren't corrected when they first appear.

I have read many sources about the neighbors account of PF’s truck. Also posts. Among them would be DM, which I always take lightly, and local news outlets. Neighbor left the house in the 12:30 to 1:00pm range but did she see the truck when she returned and when did she return? My memory is she did see the truck but did not feel it was unusual. I maybe confusing the time she was gone until all day. Please remember that in late November many areas in the Mountains lose sunlight by 3:30pm.
Thanks for clarifying the charges. We don’t know what was taken other than purse and cell phone. That could be enough to file on.
Lots of speculation to be had with this case.

 

[susiQ]

U

I have read many sources about the neighbors account of PF’s truck. Also posts. Among them would be DM, which I always take lightly, and local news outlets. Neighbor left the house in the 12:30 to 1:00pm range but did she see the truck when she returned and when did she return? My memory is she did see the truck but did not feel it was unusual. I maybe confusing the time she was gone until all day. Please remember that in late November many areas in the Mountains lose sunlight by 3:30pm.
Thanks for clarifying the charges. We don’t know what was taken other than purse and cell phone. That could be enough to file on.
Lots of speculation to be had with this case.

I haven't gone back to listen to everything again, but my understanding is the neighbour saw PF's vehicle between 12:30 p.m. and 1 p.m. and that it was parked horizontally behind KB's two vehicles. That's all that was said that I can remember.

ed: added link to interview of neighbour

 

[Snowsnake]

I haven't gone back to listen to everything again, but my understanding is the neighbour saw PF's vehicle between 12:30 p.m. and 1 p.m. and that it was parked horizontally behind KB's two vehicles. That's all that was said that I can remember.

I am taking horizontally behind to mean KB was unable to get out without PF moving. It would also reason PF arrived after KB. There is no report of KB’s vehicles moving after PK truck is gone.

 

[Dave F.]

I honestly don't think any of his family would participate in this mess. I think his mom is in denial. Goodness knows what kind of tale he has spun for her. But, YES, I want to know where they where going too! From previous posts it appears we're a little divided on that question. Breakfast, isn't my guess

I don't like to psychoanalyse, but I think that any Mom would be in denial, at least in the beginning. I also think her demeanor may have indicated shock and bewilderment. IMO

 

[susiQ]

I am taking horizontally behind to mean KB was unable to get out without PF moving. It would also reason PF arrived after KB. There is no report of KB’s vehicles moving after PK truck is gone.

Yes. I just edited my post to include link to interview with neighbour.

 

[BingoBongo]

Absolutely true. The thing is, some of that anecdotal information about his rage, shows that it was present when he was likely sober.

So it’s possible that he used alcohol and drugs and became enraged when he did so.

It wasn’t a requirement though.

I think a lot of these types "self-medicate" to deal with their personality issues.

 

[BingoBongo]

I don't like to psychoanalyse, but I think that any Mom would be in denial, at least in the beginning. I also think her demeanor may have indicated shock and bewilderment. IMO

Google "flying monkeys" in relation to personality disorders.

I believe PF's immediate family, most, if not all, fit that category.

 

[susiQ]

There are many, many things we'd like to hear from PF. But after hearing what KK thinks of him, I'd like to hear his opinion of her.

Oh to be a "fly on the wall" in so many places, both in CO and in ID. Unfortunately, my poor little wings would freeze in this nasty weather

 

[susiQ]

Google "flying monkeys" in relation to personality disorders.

I believe PF's immediate family, most, if not all, fit that category.

And sadly, they will not realize they have been set up to play that role.

 

[Snowsnake]

I think a lot of these types "self-medicate" to deal with their personality issues.

I have suspected drugs and alcohol from the start. I think PF not KB and that may have been a visitation or custody problem for PF that KB would use.

 

[allboys]

I am taking horizontally behind to mean KB was unable to get out without PF moving. It would also reason PF arrived after KB. There is no report of KB’s vehicles moving after PK truck is gone.

That is my assumption as well. That PF must have arrived AFTER KB, in order for his vehicle to have been behind hers.

The only thing, in my mind, that would explain possibility of KB arriving home after PF, is if she was driving HIS truck to the store (in the event that he was already at her condo when she went to the store, and she just took it because it was easier.) But I think that is UNLIKELY because if that were the case: a.) he would have probably kept Baby K home from store b.) we have never heard anything to suggest that he was already at her house when she went to the store.

 

[Dave F.]

Google "flying monkeys" in relation to personality disorders.

I believe PF's immediate family, most, if not all, fit that category.

That kind of theory is what crime writers make their living creating. The reading makes for a lot shorter plane ride, but I've never seen one of them solve a case. They just analyze and theorize.
There are sociopaths who have literally no built-in anti-kill mechanism. There is no personality disorder because there is no personality behind the mask. It's cold, it's cruel, it's empty, it's evil, and it's very real. IMO

 

[allboys]

I honestly don't think any of his family would participate in this mess. I think his mom is in denial. Goodness knows what kind of tale he has spun for her. But, YES, I want to know where they where going too! From previous posts it appears we're a little divided on that question. Breakfast, isn't my guess

I’d like to know where they were going as well. A boring possibility is that they were driving the trash bins down to the pick up area beyond their driveway fence. Given the early hour, that may be a possibility?

However, I don’t know why that would be a family affair. Perhaps PF needed his mommy’s help taking out the trash.

ETA: I also think it’s possible that he knew the arrest was coming, and rather than have LE come get him at his house, he started down the driveway to prevent the whole “fence padlock cutting scene.” Personally, I preferred the lock cutting scene.

 

[BingoBongo]

That kind of theory is what crime writers make their living creating. The reading makes for a lot shorter plane ride, but I've never seen one of them solve a case. They just analyze and theorize.
There are sociopaths who have literally no built-in anti-kill mechanism. There is no personality disorder because there is no personality behind the mask. It's cold, it's cruel, it's empty, it's evil, and it's very real. IMO

If you look at all the SO/family murders in the last 50 years (one's where we've had the opportunity to learn about the perps personality/upbringing, etc.) you'll see several common threads, in them, and their families.

This is why we have criminal profiling.

 

[NoeticSoul]

dbm misunderstood

 

[crhedBngr]

I agree, and I also got a whiff of what looked like defiance in her mugshot... :/

THIS^^^^

Absolutely.