Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.

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  1. riolove77

    riolove77 Verified Attorney

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    Where did I say he was a loving father who couldn’t stand to be away from his child? Custody is the term used to describe legal and physical decision making for a minor. It does not imply any underlying motive for wanting it.
     
  2. Corrupted1967

    Corrupted1967 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Rio in the custody case what would the chances of pfs family to get more then supervised visits with what we know so far in your opinion
     
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  3. OldLadyBlues

    OldLadyBlues Well-Known Member

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    I think this bolded quote will eventually bring KKL to her knees and be her total downfall.
    Lies and innuendos are funny things because you can't EVER remember their pathways.
    MOO, MOO
     
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  4. NoeticSoul

    NoeticSoul Learning is a gift, even if pain is your teacher.

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    I completely agree. It was VERY personal and I believe the murder itself and/or the disposal method was heinous because of it.
     
  5. NoeticSoul

    NoeticSoul Learning is a gift, even if pain is your teacher.

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    Exactly. If you don't lie you don't have to remember anything lol I sincerely hope you are right and believe you are. Karma will catch up with her lies for her. I need to see her serve jail time, and ALLOT of it! moo
     
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  6. riolove77

    riolove77 Verified Attorney

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    The key to a wrongful death suit is the basis on which it is filed. It appears that the Berreths filed on a negligence claim, if I recall correctly. For a wrongful death claim to survive, the person or people filing it have to have a claim that the injured victim themselves would have if they were alive.

    Let me see if I can give an example. In negligence, you have to prove duty, breach, causation, and damages. This means that KB would have to have a valid claim against PF if she were alive, and only then would the Berreths claim for the same survive.

    I do not believe KK had a duty to KB. Yes, she was a mandated reporter in her profession but I just don’t think that’ll be enough to hold up a claim against her. And if she had no duty, she could not have breached it and therefore there would be no causation or damages.

    Hope that helps. And again it’s only my professional opinion. Maybe the Berreths attorney will feel ambitious and try.
     
  7. Jessthinkin

    Jessthinkin Well-Known Member

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    Yup, and to me, PF's every action, including body language, reeks of "You're not the boss of me"..., personified...
     
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  8. Lhughessk

    Lhughessk Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t say that you said that. Geez.
     
  9. OldLadyBlues

    OldLadyBlues Well-Known Member

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    I'm old. Half the time I can't even remember my name. But these younger whippersnappers are being taught (none too kindly), the value of truth. The beauty of this exercise is that they will have plenty of time to ponder it.
    IMHO
     
  10. NoSI

    NoSI Active Member

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    Hi All, long-time follower, first-time poster... I was close to replying a few times, but knew I would get sucked in further if I did... Anyhow, today is the day... I am a Psych NP, with passion for suicide prevention, and researched the above mentioned case. I don't know any additional info other than what's in the media, but do want to share that she unfortunately had a lot of VERY significant suicide risk factors including the presence of a mood disorder (and anxiety, and insomnia), likely being off her mood stabilizer, a very significant family history of suicide, and likely alcohol in her system. This can be the perfect storm... Alcohol disinhibits and often is the one factor that makes the difference between a person making it through a suicidal crisis without acting on it or not. In other words, having alcohol in the system is like taking the foot off the break so thoughts turn into deeds. An impulsive moment is all that it takes unfortunately and being off medications and with alcohol..... OK, I could go on an on an on. What I read about this case, leads me to think it was a suicide as well and justice was done, but like I said, I may not be aware of information others are.

    Anyhow, I feel this case is completely different and both PF and KK look very very very guilty and I can't wait for justice for Kelsey! Kelsey and her family have been on my mind every single day!!!

    I hope I didn't rerail the discussion. If I did, please delete.
     
  11. Oregon

    Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Was not this part of the statement KK read to the judge?
     
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  12. riolove77

    riolove77 Verified Attorney

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    I think it’s possible the civil suit will be stayed pending outcome of the criminal trial. Because PF has a 5th A right against self incrimination, he cannot be forced to testify in a civil suit if it will set him up for criminal culpability.

    Having said that, federal law allows for juries to infer from a defendant’s refusal to answer questions in a civil suit. This means the jury in PFs civil case could infer his guilt from the refusal.to testify. But that does not apply to criminal trials. So there’s a predicament there obviously, if the trials are running concurrently.

    Time will tell.
     
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  13. Hatch

    Hatch Well-Known Member

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    PF mentioned the gun for a reason we do not know yet. There must be some importance to the gun, or maybe he kept it and is saying I don't know where her gun is I gave it back to her. Could that be what they were looking for in the landfill?
     
  14. ?mysterian?

    ?mysterian? Well-Known Member

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    Maybe PF had horses to trim/shoe in Westcliffe.
     
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  15. yawningreyhound

    yawningreyhound Well-Known Member

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    oh my, remember Arias texting Travis to "go to a concert" after she murdered HIM?
     
  16. Seattle1

    Seattle1 Well-Known Member

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    It's still proving very difficult here to acknowledge that under modern law, knowing a felony occurred and not reporting it is not a crime ("misprision of felony" crime abolished 100+ years ago)!

    If only we could punish the morally bankrupt KK's of the world....

    Since KK allegedly moved KB's phone after she was dead, wouldn't it be impossible for Berreth's to prove damages?

    Also, if KK committed other unknown acts dropped pursuant to her plea agreement, could Berreth's use the charges not pursued in criminal court in their own action against her? Thanks...
     
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  17. ?mysterian?

    ?mysterian? Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to Websleuths, NoSI!
     
  18. riolove77

    riolove77 Verified Attorney

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    Honestly I don’t know. It’s going to depend on what more comes out regarding what they may or may not have known and when. The way his family jumped to get custody right away screamed out that this was the motive behind this all along. If the Berreths end up with permanent custody, and the Frazees get any visitation, it’s likely going to amount to them having to travel to Idaho for it, at least for the first several years. The baby is so young.
     
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  19. Oregon

    Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I am in awe of Cheryl Berreth’s inner strength, and the bond that Kelsey’s family presents in the face of this horrific tragedy.
     
  20. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Well-Known Member

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    However CB is grace under fire. She shows great restrain. She's tactical. So is the amendment.
     
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