Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.
No worries. I figured as much.
Since the evidence all seems to show KK was not in CO on the day of the murder, could the defense try to accuse PF's mom of being the actual murderer rather than PF? She would have potentially had access to PF's phone to use to text KK from KB's condo. I don't for one moment think that SF did it, but her pleading the 5th and refusing to answer any questions at all made me think it was part of a strategy. I sure hope there is no way for the defense to pin it on someone else. MOO.
Now that is intriguing - what if they were KB's and he took them from her???
So you're looking for the trigger that ruined his plan?
I hope the FBI investigated KK phone and activities back a few months because I fear KB's stalking and plotting may go back further than she admits.
In August, Kelsey is in treatment for two weeks for depression and anxiety. Less than a month later KK admits she is actively plotting to murder KB. Showing up at KB's door trying to make friends over coffee and play-dates. The next month she again drives to Woodland Park this time armed with a steel rod to murder KB. Two weeks later KK is sitting outside of KB's apartment with a baseball bat.
MOO KK reminds me of the psycho ***** from a Lifetime movie that haunts her lover's wife trying to make her feel crazy.
It is the simple mockery or his mental problem, when PF instructed KKL after the murder, to send a message form KB's phone to himself:
Do you still love me at all? (or similar wording)
Thread by @SamKraemerTV: "We’ve made it to Cripple Creek. The preliminary hearing for State of Colorado vs. Patrick Frazee starts in a little under 90 minutes. I’ll t […]" #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney #ParrickFrazee
Yep. We saw the same thing in the CW case. There were people who were so determined for SW to be the murderer, the evidence regarding CW was repeatedly ignored until the bitter end and some still don't believe it.
I think everyone on this board is disgusted and appalled by KK. I think everyone would love nothing more than for her to go to prison for many years. She has participated more than I thought she did, given that she got a plea deal. It's very upsetting. I agree that she was in on the whole thing and didn't do anything from fear. However, PF is the actual murderer and without her testimony combined with the evidence, we may not have had as strong of a case, especially for this good ole hometown cowboy. They both belong behind bars but if they can only get one, then let it be the one who did the actual murder. Believing PF is the actual killer does not absolve KK. I don't think the posters saying KK is not the murderer are defending her in ANY way. The one thing this board can agree on is how morally corrupt she is.
Perhaps she did meet someone else and was going to move away and he discovered this - deciding that death might as well happen during the long holiday weekend?? He does not strike me as that bright IMO
I think what some are raising is the argument of reasonable doubt. Not that it will work by any means but if you do not work these scenarios then you don't plan for holes in the prosecution of PF. Some of the timelines and gaps raised here are helpful to the prosecution's planning. It is not for the downing of women over men, it is just good case strategy. There is obviously evidence we do not know and should not know. Don't take challenging the prosecution as anything but helpful. PF is where he should be. KKL is where she should be based on people in position to decide such matters. I personally think they also called her a liar and verified what they could and did an outstanding job. I doubt seriously anything of them sleep well after being on this case knowing that she walks around freely.
The Judge said the prelim purpose wasn't to receive testimony. So all they did was establish enough facts to keep PF locked up without bail.
But there was information revealed for the first time pertaining to Nov. 22 including the fact that PF made a call and received a call from an Idaho area code that afternoon.
And that CB received a text from KB that night stating PF had returned her gun and she had gone shooting.
Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
They found the custody papers at SF. If the papers were her's and PF's, fingerprints of KB would have been mysterious. But were the papers tested for it? Probably not.
From WPPD official facebook page.
Warning, this is just going to be a stream of consciousness comment about PF trying to paint KB as mentally unstable.
first off I will just say: gaslighting.
In MOO, he escalated to murder because (if I recall correctly) she had sought treatment for depression. For anyone familiar with abusers, gaslighting can push people to the brink of suicide/despondency. It can begin with simply moving someone’s car keys or phone, or saying “you forgot this”... And before you know it, you’re doubting every possible thing you thought, said or and did
Again, MOO, assuming she did go away for a couple weeks, away from his manipulations, I suspect, quickly realized she wasn’t losing her mind. She may have realized how abusive he was being.
I actually believe his intentions were to push her to suicide. When that didn’t work, he manipulated KK to help get rid of her.
I wonder if there might be any documentation that might show this to be true?
...and that probably made little sense! Haha
I'm thinking something else entirely. I think PF had a backup plan and that plan was to put this all in KK's lap. The key is to poke holes in the 11/22 location of KK OR the time/date of death of KB.
Woodland Park Police Department
The bulletin says search could last up to 80 days!
12:27 KB departed the Safeway
12:37 KB car seen on Furniture Store surveillance on her way home.
Unknown to me exact time...~12:40-12:45 or so, it showed a still of her with him and the flowers and the baby (..see screen shot of twitter for Sam and another newsperson at prelim, I assumed it was a very short and sweet because it takes 9 minutes to get back to the Walmart)
12:54-1:15 PF at WalMart
1:24 PF enters condo (just 9 minutes after Walmart)
3:36 PF seen on camera at KB
4:24 calls mom while still on KB's cell tower heading west
437 contacts KKL Southwest of KB and she returns call while he is pinging in divide
HTH with understanding the timing. And I'm sure somebody is going to correct me for everyone if I am wrong here in any time frame. My opinion is that 12:45 is " around 1", and I think that fits with the time frame.
Unfortunately, we don't know what time that the Bank drive-thru was done, nor do we know what was purchased at Walmart.
Wow! Still looking for her remains so it's possible they do have a clue.
16-80 days possible in the search.
It still concerns me that he possibly had access to her phone records, showing calls and texts as she was on his plan.
I wonder if law enforcement checked into that with one of their search warrants.
If that was the case, why didn't she break up with him? He on the other hand, had no problem telling his circle of people that they were no longer together. So he wrote off their relationship several months before he started plotting against her with KK. I still find it hard to believe that KK didn't know about Kelsey for a long time.
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