CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

[AmatuerDetective]

You know I don't know. I don't think it runs contrary to almost any missing person's case at this stage of the game. LE are usually tight-lipped in such cases and warn loved ones to be so as well. Even about things like that.

It comes down to LE doesn't need or wants us amateurs to try to do their job for them. They don't need any of us to come up with theories or assist them in any way in doing their jobs, except for spreading information so people can be on the alert for her or call in if they become aware of the case and remember something, and by giving them info if anyone has any that is pertinent, such as sightings or communications or observations involving the people in this case.

The CBI and the FBI are handling this case. They really don't want the public trying to get involved unless they already are involved in some way.

Although I know you're only talking about info that you think may not be material to the case (to me it's pretty relevant) so this is not directed at you, but I have noticed in general this sort of incredulity lately in multiple cases, that LE isn't giving us their information and handing their case over to us, and a feeling of entitlement to it as if they need us to do their work for them.

That attitude surprises me. LE can't risk the integrity of a case to satisfy a curious public. Nor should they. The CBI and the FBI are the pros here and know what they're doing. Even when cases aren't solved in a couple weeks and even when there are no arrests. Not hearing our theories isn't what's holding up justice in such cases, IMO.

Thank you for the well written response. What you posted makes a lot of sense. I would never advocate nor do I see others on this board advocate the release of material evidence in a case. When they do it gets pointed out rather quickly.

The police work for us. It isnt about what they want. Its about whats best for society. The police are given a lot of power by society. Secrecy is the enemy of accountability. This case is an example how holding back information by the police can adversely affect a case as well as society as a whole. Up until yesterday we all believed PF was cooperating. Or at least thats how LE was describing their interactions with him. Then the white hot focus of the national media intensifies (websleuths is a form of media) and out comes the truth. Even though LE actually have yet to personally interview PF they have described him as cooperative. Yesterday they had to artfully walk that back. How many people who had information regarding PF decided not to get involved because LE represented PF's actions as cooperation? The counter argument by LE would be they intentionally misled the public to give PF a feeling he wasn't a suspect. Then they put him under surveillance with the hope he would lead them to KB or otherwise make a mistake. Only time will tell if they had him under surveillance. But without the media asking questions we'll never know.

 

[Mauig’ma]

Yes, we would like him to be forthcoming and helpful but apparently his lawyer has advised against being questioned. Not much can be done. It would seem that LE has their hands tied at the moment and are looking for other ways to get information. Hopefully the search will provide some answers. Imo

This case is heartbreaking. Especially so if they don’t find more evidence for an arrest. The injustice for Kelsey would be a very hard pill to swallow. Prayers for some answers to give her family some peace. All I can hope for is karma will prevail in the end..

 

[alucardsdream]

Her boyfriend also lawyered up immediately and wouldn’t talk to police except through the lawyer, but he didn’t kill her. That’s actually what keeps sticking in my head here.

I don't really see getting a lawyer as particularly suspicious in and of itself; it's usually the prudent thing to do. Especially in cases that are likely to have a lot of media scrutiny. What I don't like is the fact that PF never bothered to report KB missing. That's the part that bothers me the most.

 

[KSinMT]

I keep thinking about yesterday's press conference and when the question came up on whether or not PF traveled at all during the time he picked up the child and when KB was reported missing. The response was "that's a great question and they would like to talk to him about that" .. .makes me wonder if they have evidence that he did travel somewhere during that time.

 

[BRRI]

LE would need to convince a judge/magistrate or whoever issues search warrants in that county that there is probable cause to believe that a crime has occurred on the property. They also could use the tactic that evidence in a crime is being hidden on the property.

They would need to have justification for the tactic of evidence on the property though, right? They would need other evidence alluding to the idea that evidence is on the property?

 

[?mysterian?]

Does anyone know what the fiance does for a living? Could he have access to Kelsey's place of employment? Just wondering if her phone could have ended up in an aircraft.

He's a farrier and cattle farmer per earlier posts. I don't know about his access to her job site.

 

[rainynights]

Woodland Park Police Department | 12/15/18, 9:58 AM (MST)

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Does anyone know how large the air field is that Kelsey would’ve used for her job? Like is it a big city airport or a country airstrip?

I have seen the comments that no planes are missing and she didn’t have a plane. So while I still think this is unlikely, I’ll put it out there that I have known a few country pilots (think crop dusters etc) who freely took their small planes up around the area without much monitoring. Did anyone from work—colleague or client—live near Kelsey who could’ve picked her up on the way to the airstrip to go up in the sky and get their minds off things?

Secondly, I am surprised reporters haven’t been able to get and broadcast additional footage of Kelsey the day she disappeared. In Toni Anderson’s case, they found another business and camera that caught her on video. Is there any chance Kelsey left Safeway in the company of someone she knew and that’s why this hasn’t been released?

Also, people are sometimes referring to her as a loner, but if Kelsey didn’t move to this region until she was pregnant and then had a small child, it would be difficult for her to socially get to know a big portion of the community outside of work. When I moved to my current house, I was pregnant and opted to stay in often...then I was busy with the baby. Took me quite some time to even get to know neighbors...

 

[BRRI]

I don't really see getting a lawyer as particularly suspicious in and of itself; its usually the prudent thing to do. Especially in cases that are likely to have a lot of media scrutiny. What I don't like is the fact that PF never bothered to report KB missing. That's the part that bothers me the most.

Either did Natalie’s boyfriend actually, come to think of it (report her missing). But yes, PF belongs to a family of LE, so I would imagine that they told him to immediately get a lawyer, especially if they had just broken up. If she broke up with him, he sent messages to friends bashing her / being angry over it, and he was the last to see her... even if he didn’t harm her, it sure looks like he had motive. I would probably lawyer up too

 

[Kapua]

Now this that you mention is interesting to me. Maybe the ping was a false in reverse. I still am not convinced that Kelsey left her town. I think she is there, somewhere.

That's the biggest question to me. Where is Kelsey? We, the public, have no clue as to where to begin looking. I remember thinking in the Powell case, that it was unlikely that he drove for miles with his kids in the car and his wife's body in the back. But apparently, he did. I can't rule anything out, but going with BessDrew's idea of assigning percentages, I'd be probably 70% in on her being in or near her or PF's house. But I don't want to rule out any other possibilities just yet.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I believe a crime occurred because LE said in the press conference that they now believe she has gone missing under suspicious circumstances.

Did we not already know she went missing under suspicious circumstances? And really, that’s all we know.

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

Thank you for the well written response. What you posted makes a lot of sense. I would never advocate nor do I see others on this board advocate the release of material evidence in a case. When they do it gets pointed out rather quickly.

The police work for us. It isnt about what they want. Its about whats best for society. The police are given a lot of power by society. Secrecy is the enemy of accountability. This case is an example how holding back information by the police can adversely affect a case as well as society as a whole. Up until yesterday we all believed PF was cooperating. Or at least thats how LE was describing their interactions with him. Then the white hot focus of the national media intensifies (websleuths is a form of media) and out comes the truth. Even though LE actually have yet to personally interview PF they have described him as cooperative. Yesterday they had to artfully walk that back. How many people who had information regarding PF decided not to get involved because LE represented PF's actions as cooperation? The counter argument by LE would be they intentionally misled the public to give PF a feeling he wasn't a suspect. Then they put him under surveillance with the hope he would lead them to KB or otherwise make a mistake. Only time will tell if they had him under surveillance. But without the media asking questions we'll never know.

Technically, in a very literal sense, PF is legally cooperating but he is NOT being “helpful” in a voluntary sense.

From what I understand, being interviewed by the police and communicating with them is optional. Thus, PF has not done this.

Taking a polygraph exam is optional. Thus, PF will not do this.

However, if LE is requiring something that PF must agree with legally, e.g. performing a search with a warrant, he cooperates.

Apparently, his lawyer is advising him to do the OPPOSITE of Chris Watts. Had CW taken these steps, I don’t know how long it would’ve taken to find the family.

 

[soap mama]

As @MassGuy mentioned, I am on the other side of the aisle so I’m biased about defense attorneys in general. Not all; I know some good, decent ones.

Look, they are necessary. They are the bedrock of our Constitution, which is the highest law of our land. Hard as they make my life sometimes lol, I would never wish for a criminal justice system without them.

However, this guy, while he may not be doing anything wrong per se, isn’t necessarily the kind I would get along with. For example, his BS excuse about PF not being at the presser because he didn’t have enough notice. So was PF at yesterday’s presser then?

Or, insinuating that LE has not asked his client to participate in yesterday’s search. What?! That’s not how it works buddy. And I know he knows that.

At this point I’m not sure what I feel the defense attorney knows about PF’s possible involvement in this. However, turning over a phone and a DNA swab is nothing we should be bowing down to any potential suspect for. There are warrants for those types of things.

If PF is guilty of nothing, I will gladly apologize. But so far, he’s told a story about 11/22 that has not been verified (at least to us), did not report his co-parent missing (even if they broke up or were engaged for show), did not participate in two pressers and a vigil for her, won’t let his child’s grandmother see the baby, and has apparently refused to sit down face to face with LE. In my world, we don’t call that cooperating.

THIS ^^^
(also, everyone on WS and FB had more notice of ALL the pressers than PF “allegedly”)

 

[BRRI]

Woodland Park Police Department | 12/15/18, 9:58 AM (MST)

View attachment 159945

Interesting that they mention CPS

 

[mickey2942]

This worried me so much, I had to call my daughter. I am not so sure about her BF.

Geez, after this, and CW, I really am paranoid about men now!

 

[chihuahua]

I apologize if this has already been posted. It was marked for immediate public release. Hmmm...

 

[BRRI]

Lawyering up in itself is not enough to put the blame on PF because we all know they look at the significant other first. The glaring elephant in the room is that he never reported her missing. If she had the baby most of the time him having the baby for 10-11 days would have been highly irregular, what did he tell the mom he lived with? I don’t know if his mother works but I noticed he is joined at the hip with the baby. He evidently doesn’t say, “Mom will you watch the baby a minute while I do whatever.” He is not letting KB’s mom see the baby. For my money he is acting highly suspicious.

If they had broken up and she asked him to watch the baby for the week, it could be why he didn’t report her missing. Though, as a mom, I can’t imagine not calling daily to check in on the baby. We don’t really know any of their dynamic though or what their norm was. That’s my hesitation on considering the non-report as a red flag, anyway.

 

[Mauig’ma]

I would love to hear from Kelsey’s neighbor. Could anyone hear a disturbance or suspicious activity on Thanksgiving or the days following days? Or PF vehicle coming and going at late hours of the night? Moo

 

[LaborDayRN]

He's a farrier and cattle farmer per earlier posts. I don't know about his access to her job site.

I have to wonder..........if she was carrying her phone and LE know what time she dropped of the baby, where did her phone ping immediately after the drop off? Did her phone stay in the location of the drop off for an extended amount of time? PF's home looks pretty rural. Maybe there isn't even service there.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I want to say up front that I know this is outlandishly unlikely, but in the interest of turning over unturned stones...

Does anyone know if we can confirm that Kelsey was the one who drove herself and the baby to Safeway?

I know we tend to think she went home and made cinnamon rolls after the grocery store, but is it at all possible that PF or another party drove them there and she never returned home from that point? (But he claims she did?)

Could that be why they haven’t released footage of her leaving the store? Or of her in the parking lot? Is there anyone else in that Safeway footage that is of interest?