Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.
I don’t buy the brain washed bs. She wanted her dead imo
Me either. There is no excuse for the things she did and they are quite thought out. His are less so from what we see so far. No one brainwashed this evil thing. jmo.
When you say "his are less so..." are you referring to PF?
Yes, and I certainly do not mean he did not murder her or that she was worse. He, however, did not delete his google location, switch vehicles with his friends and more examples. I just mean I seriously doubt he brainwashed her. She seemed to have thought out her actions a bit more than he did with his is all I mean.
She's very conniving. His perfect match.Everyone that went along with this is too. They all played their willing part to help murder Kelsey, and cover up,lie decieve too.
Yes, one evil person is bad enough but in this case it looks like there may well be an entire cast of them with various levels of involvement. KB never had a chance although she would have had various people came forward. Just not in their nature I guess
It seems apparent to me that KK possibly endorsed a very violent death for KB. To have gone there with a bat/rod shows she wasn’t thinking quick bullet in the head.
Does anybody believe here that KK really believed PF’s allegations that KB was being abusive to their daughter? I’m wondering as I ponder the above statement re: the level of violence here.
I doubt she believed it but that is jmo. I believe she "acted" as though she did or in fact helped encourage those thoughts. I would worry more if she was ever alone with that child.
He knew of these things but did nothing and left his daughter with KB? No going to document it with a doctor, etc., especially if he wanted custody? And he continued to have a relationship with KB? Did KK really think there was no relationship there? I doubt it--I think she worried about exactly that... From the minute she knew about KB, whenever that truly may have been...
No way to know of course, so this is simply my opinion.
I don't. And if she did believe it, it infuriates me that she didn't report it.
Excellent point. Especially since she is Ms. Nurse. Or tell him to report it. If she did not, to me that says it was bs. There is even the possibility she made that up. He told similar stories to neighbors, etc. but none of them mention that, only she does if my memory serves...
I don't believe that, everything that comes from these players is a pile of horse manure.
KK and her jealous entearage,PF and his wagon circle.
Nothing credible from a single one them.
I understand what you're saying, and it's certainly valid points. IMO, I just can't jibe with the thought that a girl who may have been planning to do an act (but never did it -- yet, at the same time, she didn't go to LE as she should have). Originally, I thought you were implying she was more evil than him, and I took issue with that as putting a sweater over your significant others head to "guess candle scents" and then bashing her skull in with a bat to the point you remember teeth being deposited in specific areas, leaving a tote with a corpse in it in a barn while you eat Thanksgiving dinner with your family and then returning to burn the body in a burn pit couldn't certainly be more evil than KK. Don't get me wrong, very, very, VERY vile steps she took, and her speaking up would have prevented this all from happening, but she still never actually took part in the violent murder of a young mother. To be clear, I'm not giving her an excuse or a free pass. She certainly has her share of responsibility.
PF had been trying to get this done for months by a 3rd party due to (potential) manipulative notions on his part. If they were high school sweethearts as I read, perhaps he knew exactly how to manipulate KK. Again, I by no means and claiming her as an innocent victim. Just basing MOO on the fact that she had multiple times to violently murder KB but she still NEVER did. PF tried to farm this out because he wasn't even man enough to do it himself, and then he bashed a promising young girl and mother's skull with a baseball bat. Then went and had a succulent turkey dinner. He certainly is the MOST evil one here.
I think it was her excuse and justification for her involvement. She had no other reason that would make her look humane in the eyes of a jury of her peers to cover up a murder of an innocent woman. It didn’t work she looks like an evil monster.
The credibility of a witness is a matter of opinion. You posted: If CB is saying it, I absolutely believe it .
Quoting the Amended Complaint of Wrongful Death dated Feb 15, 2019, Plaintiffs DB and CB:
32. Plaintiffs have suffered and continue to suffer severe emotional distress caused by Frazee's extreme and outrageous conduct to include, but not limited to:
a. Insomnia, b. Stress, c. Muscle and back pain, d. Headaches, e. Gastrointestinal problems, f. Weight loss, g. Loss of appetite, h. Anxiety, i. Depression
33. The above manifestations of severe emotional distress commenced following Frazee's extreme and outrageous conduct set forth in paragraphs 10-19 above. [paragraph 10 states November 22, 2018]
35. As a result of the actions of Frazee, the Plaintiffs have sustained past and future injuries, damages, and losses.
The Amended Complaint goes on to request $75,000 plus costs.
On Dec 21, 2018, the Custody Court granted a Temporary Emergency Custody Order giving physical custody of baby K to DB and CB. Additional hearings in this matter occurred on Dec 27, Jan 3, and Feb 7, continuing the physical custody of baby K with DB and CB. Baby K is a citizen of Colorado, yet has been physically removed to Idaho.
Although custody hearings are closed to the public, there is some obvious paperwork and testimony. CB and DB would have had to file documents about their ability to care for the child. Additionally, every custody Court (Judge) will orally inquire and receive answers regarding the basic information: Do you have an adequate permanent residence? Do you have sufficient financial resources? Do you have any health problems, physical or mental impairments? The Court would be completely remiss if these issues were not specifically addressed before handing off a baby to anyone.
As I bolded above, the text of the Amended Complaint filed Feb 15, 2019 covers all time periods since Nov 22, 2018 into the indefinite future, and that includes all of the custody hearings to date.
Attestations to courts are not mere chit-chat or TV interviews. So which is it? Is CB healthy and mentally fit to care for the baby as she told the custody Court before or on Feb 7, 2019? Or is CB suffering from severe emotional distress, anxiety and depression, so bad that there are multiple physical manifestations, and she needs $75,000 in damages? If CB is so sick and mentally ill, should she be caring for the baby? Or is CB not really all that sick and mentally ill, so it's okay for her to care for the baby, but then why make these claims in a federal lawsuit if it's not a big deal?
As a witness in a criminal trial where credibility is an issue regarding all testimony about spoken statements, which is it? Is it what CB told the custody Court, or is it what she told the federal Court?
I'm certain I will be reported for victim-bashing, but these are simply facts. I am not even offering an opinion on CB's credibility, but I do see where a Defense attorney will go here.
And if I were the Frazee custody attorney, I would have copied that Amended Complaint and filed an emergency motion to the custody Court, for the sake of the child in the physical custody of someone who one week after the last custody hearing claimed to the federal Court to have so many severe health and emotional issues. Does the custody Court know about this?
This part confuses me. I swear I read in the documents that she was afraid that CB was being abused at PF's direction, but then I also believe I had read that she didn't really believe that.
I doubt there will be any facts presented btwn now and trial that will either implicate kk further or define her exact involvement.
2 yrs is going to feel like an eternity in this case.
We are simply left here to emotionally speculate on what may or may not have happened. With no new facts in sight
I hope they can however find KB body and give the Berreth family the ability to lay kB to rest! And of course help seal the case.
The language in the civil suit, is fairly standard, and in no way indicative of CB’s ability to take care of the baby.
The jury won’t simply have to believe her, as there will be documentation to support it.
These investigations leave a paper trail.
CB will be an incredibly compelling and believable witness.
PF bashed Kelsey’s face in with a baseball bat, obviously his abusive behavior manifested itself in other areas beforehand.
CB lost her daughter, has handled herself with incredible grace and class.
Anyone who doesn’t believe her, probably doesn’t want to.
She is a victim in all of this, and I absolutely believe her.
I guessed you thought that and I should go back and clarify that post because in no way did I mean that. I just do not see that either of these two brainwashed the other. I agree with much in your post and have some other opinions on other things. However, I have respect for all opinions, we each have our own. And I believe all of our opinions are nothing but guesswork and logic based on the little we know of these two. So they will differ.
I tend to disagree I guess with his being her "first love" having any control over someone to do as she did. I believe both are very manipulative people, not that he manipulated her. No one had her at gunpoint on the Idaho end to come to Colorado to do the bidding of a man she was scared of, her own remarks. He is her first love or true love on one hand but she is scared of him on the other hand.
Otherwise, I mostly agree. And I appreciate that you did not jump to the conclusion of how you took my post because I did not mean she was worse. In fact, I basically was saying she was a bit smarter than he.
That's true, she looks that way to us, but I don't know a jury necessarily sees it that way. Some jurors may look at it as without her finally coming clean, we may know even less than we did now. And what if the jury pool consists of a good number of females who have been in a manipulative relationship? That could change the jury (jury only) potential outlook at the case as a whole. I have no doubt that PF was probably planning on ultimately making it look like KK was a jealous other woman who took it upon herself to murder KB and PF is completely innoncent. IMO, that's the route I saw being set up in the earlier court proceedings where PF's lawyer made some comment about, "PF never had actually verbatim instructed you to do these things" (that's not a direct quote - just a paraphrase.