Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.

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  1. jewelsmac

    jewelsmac No one really knows why anyone does anything

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    Because for her fairytale to happen it needed to be true.
     
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  2. girlhasnoname

    girlhasnoname Well-Known Member

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    For any of you still hanging around, do you think PF burned KB's remains or do you think he could have disposed of her elsewhere reinforcing the thoughts of "no body, no case' if that was indeed his thought.

    I believe items were burned with the tote at the Franch, but I'm not 100% convinced it was KB's remains. I can't even articulate why I'm feeling uncertain about it?! Maybe PF even led KK to believe it?
     
  3. steeltowngirl

    steeltowngirl Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I’m not convinced they burned her remains. But I know I’m in the minority with my view. I think it’s possible KK doesn’t know for sure either. I still have my eye on that Lake George. But I totally get it that LE knows far more than what’s been publicly released. And that they are spending a lot of time and resources searching the landfill for a reason.
     
  4. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    I tend to believe it.

    For one, KK has every reason to tell the truth here, and PF would have no reason to deceive her.

    That tote was stored in a barn, and cadaver dogs hit on it.

    There would be no reason for that tote not to have contained Kelsey’s body at the time.

    I buy the story that they retrieved that tote, and burned it when KK refused to take the body with her.

    It’s hard to believe that PF was seemingly able to remove all her remains, but harder to believe that he didn’t burn her body in the first place.

    For me anyways.
     
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  5. ab01

    ab01 Well-Known Member

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    Oh they burned it, a rat (pf) ratted out by a rat! No honor among thieves and especially not dumb as a dam brick murderers....


    You can spray paint a turd, but if you pick it up and squeeze it....it still smells like sheit
     
  6. girlhasnoname

    girlhasnoname Well-Known Member

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    Thanks MG, that makes more sense and I just needed someone to point it out LOL
     
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  7. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    I completely understand the skepticism, considering the source of this information.

    But I simply do not believe she would implicate herself in 3 murder attempts, then lie about what happened to Kelsey’s body.

    Not with her deal on the line.

    And I don’t think PF would have, or could have tricked her here.

    So I’m pretty confident that she was in fact burned.
     
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  8. nwmouse

    nwmouse Well-Known Member

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    Its likely he thought that burning KB's remains and removing teeth for dental records would dispose of all forensic evidence, but I think he only did superficial research on how to get away with murder --thinking that if there were no remains he'd get off.

    I think he may have casually exchanged theories with family in LE, and likely followed the Chris Watts case, doing his best to do the opposite of what CW did, even though the CW case occurred after PF's idea to get rid of KB. The best he could come up with was to make KB "disappear", and he seriously under-estimated LE by doing that.

    I don't think he ever thought that KK would cop a plea deal and become a witness for the prosecution - he thought he was able to control her as he did others. He overestimated her loyalty to him when her own freedom and Sonic visits were at stake.

    Ultimately I think PF is diabolical and evil, but not very intelligent (even though a previous girlfriend said he was) because even an idiot knows that when you include someone else in a murder its no longer a secret. Diabolical and cunning is different to above average intelligence and good strategy. PF was so focused on trying to keep his own hands clean and willing to implicate others that he didn't cover his tracks.

    It would be very hard for a jury to believe his stupid story, even though he's kept his mouth shut.
    The forensic evidence, even without KB's remains will speak volumes, imho.


    moo
     
  9. steeltowngirl

    steeltowngirl Well-Known Member

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    The one reason he might deceive her about the body would be so no one would ever try to look for it. He didn’t expect her to later testify against him, but he may have wanted her to believe there was nothing to find. Just in case...
     
  10. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    Yeah, but he was a first time killer, and his concern was getting away with murder.

    I don’t think he stored an empty tote in that barn. That’s advanced thinking for a guy that managed to make mistake after mistake.

    Way too much work for him, and ultimately pointless.

    Even if Kelsey’s body isn’t found, KK was so involved, and knew so much, that she could bury him despite the lack of a body.

    That’s exactly what happened.
     
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  11. steeltowngirl

    steeltowngirl Well-Known Member

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    Good points. Glad she will bury him, but it hurts to hear the word ‘bury’ and to realize that Kelsey’s family may be literally robbed of the ability to bury Kelsey. With all they have lost, they may lose that closure too.
     
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  12. MemPat

    MemPat The EARTH without ART is just EH.

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    I feel confident KK felt sure KB's body was in the tote.

    She would have noticed that the tote was heavy as PF lifted it into the trough, much heavier than just towels and such. (She also knew he had to use the forklift to remove it from the hay bale.)

    She described the "lump" as they watched the fire burn away the tote.

    Towels, her own coverings and the purse would have burned in a very short time while the body would have taken much longer. (I think PF fed that fire all night long.)

    I believe PF wouldn't have been concerned about removing the remains of the fire if KB's body had not been there.

    I also have some confidence that KB's DNA has shown up in the black melted plastic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  13. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    I’m cautiously optimistic in regards to the landfill search.

    I think they have evidence that indicates that’s where she was disposed of, and believe it’s likely that he wasn’t able to burn her body fully.

    We’ll see what happens, but I don’t think all hope is lost in that regard.
     
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  14. Seattle1

    Seattle1 Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt that PF took KB to the barn but for me the question is for how long did he keep her there.

    I also believe that KK believes they burned KB in the trough, and in that regard, she is true to her plea word. I'm just not convinced that PF did not receive other advice that he should not completely trust KK, and burn only the tote with other evidence in the trough, yet allow KK to believe they burned everything together while eating pizza under the starts on 11/24. MOO
     
  15. MemPat

    MemPat The EARTH without ART is just EH.

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    MG, I also think they expect to find some of those black plastic remnants of the tote at the landfill.

    Those would not have continued to deteriorate.

    Even if the black remnants didn't contain KB's DNA (which I wholeheartedly believe they might) LE could discover that they have the exact make-up of the ones found at the ranchette.
     
  16. MemPat

    MemPat The EARTH without ART is just EH.

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    I'm inclined to think he thought he had KK in his grip once she had cleaned up the crime scene, never mind that she had driven 800 miles a few times to kill KB.
     
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  17. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    Yeah. She was for all intents and purposes, his partner in this.

    He trusted her enough to ask her to kill, clean the crime scene, and take Kelsey’s phone; thereby misleading the investigation.

    She was so involved, that I think he trusted her completely, especially because she had a lot to lose as well.

    He never imagined that she’d talk, because that would mean a lengthy prison sentence.

    Or so he thought.

    That’s why I don’t think he faked the burning of Kelsey’s body.
     
  18. acutename

    acutename Well-Known Member

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    If you do not believe that the body was burned in the fire with KK present, then are there two totes? One in which the body was removed from the condo and a second one into which clean up and other items were put? The second tote would have had to be filled after KK did her cleaning- filled in her presence?
     
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  19. acutename

    acutename Well-Known Member

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    if there is no DNA, finding black plastic blobs in the landfill will not prove murder- illegal burning of plastic, maybe but not murder
     
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  20. nwmouse

    nwmouse Well-Known Member

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    There are cases of convicting a murderer without a body or remains from the victim.

    In this case they have evidence that KB was murdered from blood spatter and teeth.

    They also have evidence from KK.

    They have motive, means, witness testimony of the clean up. If it was not KB's body then whose blood, teeth and other evidence was found in KB's condo? That blood etc is evidence of a violent battering.

    Where did KB disappear to without her most precious child? People don't just disappear without a trace these days.

    I think there will be enough evidence to convict PF even if they do not find any further remains of KB.

    moo
     
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