CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[AgeofAquaruis]

I’m cautiously optimistic in regards to the landfill search.

I think they have evidence that indicates that’s where she was disposed of, and believe it’s likely that he wasn’t able to burn her body fully.

We’ll see what happens, but I don’t think all hope is lost in that regard.

Speaking of the landfill search. Does anybody know how that's coming along. Has the snowstorm affected,or delayed that?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I am thinking of KK driving to CO to clean up and I wonder where she parked her car. Did she go to the Franch and PF dropped her off at KB's with a bag containing the cleanup suit and supplies? That doesn't seem likely. Did she park nearby and walk to KB's carrying a bag with the cleanup suit and supplies? The mop and bleach bottle found with blood traces at the Franch indicates she either left her own stuff there or PF borrowed it from Ma and returned it. Where was KK's borrowed car when she was cleaning up? Maybe she drove KB's car and that's why the bloody sock was in there? I wonder if PF had made copies of KB's keys to her townhome and maybe her car nd given them to KK earlier. How else was she expected to kill KK with a pipe except to be able to let herself in and wait in hiding to ambush KB?

KK stopped by the Franch to pick up keys to KB's townhome. She parked her car close by I can't recall the exact spot but supposedly walked to KB's from there.

 

[Ccging]

Do you think when LE questioned KK about PF burning KB’s body in the tote they asked her at all to describe the smell? I’m guessing they didn’t, but would be somewhat interesting if they did to find out how she described it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Do you think when LE questioned KK about PF burning KB’s body in the tote they asked her at all to describe the smell? I’m guessing they didn’t, but would be somewhat interesting if they did to find out how she described it.

I think KK believes KB's body was in the tote. See AA linked below page 10 number 71.
The more I think about it, the more it makes the most sense that it is probably true however sad it is.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...lication and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

 

[Ccging]

I think KK believes KB's body was in the tote. See AA linked below page 10 number 71.
The more I think about it, the more it makes the most sense that it is probably true however sad it is.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

I agree, I’m just curious if they asked her descriptive questions at all because purely IMO but if they asked her to describe the smell and she says something like “it just smelled like gas, oil, and plastic” would that make them question if the body was in there? KWIM?

 

[Irmese]

KK stopped by the Franch to pick up keys to KB's townhome. She parked her car close by I can't recall the exact spot but supposedly walked to KB's from there.

TY.

 

[ajaylee]

KK stopped by the Franch to pick up keys to KB's townhome. She parked her car close by I can't recall the exact spot but supposedly walked to KB's from there.

Yes - I think she parked by a 'community center'.

However, when she left, she allegedly set the trash bags (six of them, I think) outside by KB's car. Then she went and got her car and picked the bags up.

No camera footage has been reported. I'm hopeful that LE has gone back to the trusty furniture store footage that captured both KB's and PF's vehicles. Perhaps it captured KK's comings or goings, now that LE knows what she was driving.

 

[sun16]

I wonder if kk merrily sang along to the radio on her road trip to co.

I don’t know, but it had to be a weird drive, right?

 

[Kapua]

The cadaver dog hit on the hay bale on which the tote was placed - indicating that a corpse had been on that hay bale, likely in the tote. PF used 5 gallons of gasoline and also motor oil to get one hot, roaring fire going. Occam and I say the body was in the tote when it was burned. MOO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

The cadaver dog hit on the hay bale on which the tote was placed - indicating that a corpse had been on that hay bale, likely in the tote. PF used 5 gallons of gasoline and also motor oil to get one hot, roaring fire going. Occam and I say the body was in the tote when it was burned. MOO

I wonder if any neighbors smelled it,or saw it.( smoke,flames).

 

[SandyQLS]

I don't know if we have been privy to all the information she provided in her plea deal. I bet there will be more to come out during the trial.

I believe KK will most certainly be the Defense's Strategy to try and create reasonable doubt. As another poster pointed out upthread, they're not going to be incompetent or moronic, they will be working just as hard to get PF off as DA May and Company will be to putting him away.

After the Casey Anthony case I learned never to say never.....but I do believe PF will be found guilty based on what we know even at this point.

KK acquired an anonymous burner phone (the number previously assigned to completely cleared SR) before KB vanished. KK had that phone before, during and after KB vanished, then she destroyed it. These are physical acts indicative of KK's premeditation.

In AA item#50, CL provided LE with KK's gmail account info. LE obtained a SW and found that location data was available for most of November and December 2018, except "the dates surrounding the murder of Berreth contained no location history." The word "surrounding" implies before, during and after KB vanished. This is also evidence of physical actions taken by KK indicating premeditation.

From the Prelim, Thread#39, page 79:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV1m1 minute ago
Around 4:30 p.m. on Nov. 22, Frazee texted Kenney asking for her to call him. Frazee eventually called, saying, “You need to get out here now. You’ve got a mess to clean up.” Kenney interpreted that as Kelsey Berreth was dead. @KOAA

First off, KK is repeating alleged spoken words which cannot be proven. This is not a text. Secondly, this is presented as a surprise to KK, as though she never expected to hear such a thing, a sudden demand. But that flies in the face of her direct actions before, during and after KB vanished showing KK had premeditation.

I cannot find a single action taken by PF indicating premeditation. All I find is KK's accusations, and there is no evidence supporting her words. JMO

 

[ajaylee]

KK acquired an anonymous burner phone (the number previously assigned to completely cleared SR) before KB vanished. KK had that phone before, during and after KB vanished, then she destroyed it. These are physical acts indicative of KK's premeditation.

In AA item#50, CL provided LE with KK's gmail account info. LE obtained a SW and found that location data was available for most of November and December 2018, except "the dates surrounding the murder of Berreth contained no location history." The word "surrounding" implies before, during and after KB vanished. This is also evidence of physical actions taken by KK indicating premeditation.

From the Prelim, Thread#39, page 79:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV1m1 minute ago
Around 4:30 p.m. on Nov. 22, Frazee texted Kenney asking for her to call him. Frazee eventually called, saying, “You need to get out here now. You’ve got a mess to clean up.” Kenney interpreted that as Kelsey Berreth was dead. @KOAA

First off, KK is repeating alleged spoken words which cannot be proven. This is not a text. Secondly, this is presented as a surprise to KK, as though she never expected to hear such a thing, a sudden demand. But that flies in the face of her direct actions before, during and after KB vanished showing KK had premeditation.

I cannot find a single action taken by PF indicating premeditation. All I find is KK's accusations, and there is no evidence supporting her words. JMO

Yes. This is my biggest fear - that one juror will take a huge dislike to KK, feel sympathy for PF, and decide that too much is just her word - and she is a known liar. She has a deal already, so if one juror decides KK was the instigator and PF was a sad little dupe, it might mean a hung jury.

I'm sure the prosecutor is trying to build a case that stands strong on the evidence without needing KK's testimony to get a conviction. Because unlike PF and KK, the facts don't lie, and if there's enough of them, PF will get what he deserves.

Sam seems to have slipped just a bit here: KK is not on trial. KK's got a deal. Her guilt is not in question.

I do, however, appreciate him sort of reminding us that PF likely has a completely different story than KK. It's important to separate the facts supported by evidence (phone pings, camera footage) from 'he said, she said'. The facts remain the same; the 'he said, she said' is where it will get interesting.

 

[Katerz]

KK acquired an anonymous burner phone (the number previously assigned to completely cleared SR) before KB vanished. KK had that phone before, during and after KB vanished, then she destroyed it. These are physical acts indicative of KK's premeditation.

In AA item#50, CL provided LE with KK's gmail account info. LE obtained a SW and found that location data was available for most of November and December 2018, except "the dates surrounding the murder of Berreth contained no location history." The word "surrounding" implies before, during and after KB vanished. This is also evidence of physical actions taken by KK indicating premeditation.

From the Prelim, Thread#39, page 79:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV1m1 minute ago
Around 4:30 p.m. on Nov. 22, Frazee texted Kenney asking for her to call him. Frazee eventually called, saying, “You need to get out here now. You’ve got a mess to clean up.” Kenney interpreted that as Kelsey Berreth was dead. @KOAA

First off, KK is repeating alleged spoken words which cannot be proven. This is not a text. Secondly, this is presented as a surprise to KK, as though she never expected to hear such a thing, a sudden demand. But that flies in the face of her direct actions before, during and after KB vanished showing KK had premeditation.

I cannot find a single action taken by PF indicating premeditation. All I find is KK's accusations, and there is no evidence supporting her words. JMO

With all due respect but we don’t have all of the evidence so how can someone say there’s none supporting her words?

PF was the last one to see KB alive. He lied and said he was at point A when he really was at her house. He had BOTH his phone and KB’s phones together while “KB” (who was already dead at that point) texting him. There’s visual confirmation that he lied. And to go to the bank with his buddy and ask questions, that’s fishy as well. MaF plead the 5th so she wouldn’t incriminate herself or her son. PF called KK after the murder and 2 days later she’s in CO. KK was not in CO at the time of the murder. Is she a ? ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY. But she didn’t commit the murder. Patrick tried 3 times to have KB killed. I’d say (as a non expert of course) that that’s enough for premeditation.

 

[SandyQLS]

No, I was thinking of KK trying to get KB's tooth out an air vent after Frazee's fat fingers couldn't get into the crevice.

Its a small but significant detail she gave that rings true to me.

I always thought the teeth found at the Ranchette belonged to little PF or his siblings. The tooth fairy just forgot about them!

moo

EBM for spelling.

PF is a cattle rancher, horseman and farrier. I wouldn't think of his fingers as fat as much as thick from doing hard work JMO. Finger size is irrelevant because the floor vents either lift right out, or require a screwdriver for 2 or 4 little screws. A floor vent can be seen in KB's home here between the door mat and furniture, from zillow.com:

 

[enelram]

Do you think when LE questioned KK about PF burning KB’s body in the tote they asked her at all to describe the smell? I’m guessing they didn’t, but would be somewhat interesting if they did to find out how she described it.

Good Question. I would definitely think this question was asked.
I've never experienced a burning body smell but according to others here, it's an identifiable odor and not easily forgotten.

 

[ajaylee]

PF is a cattle rancher, horseman and farrier. I wouldn't think of his fingers as fat as much as thick from doing hard work JMO. Finger size is irrelevant because the floor vents either lift right out, or require a screwdriver for 2 or 4 little screws. A floor vent can be seen in KB's home here between the door mat and furniture, from zillow.com:

This is one of those odd little seemingly pointless details that seem, based on the information we have available to us, to be 'he said, she said'.

KK says PF told her to retrieve a tooth that fell down the vent. She says she found the tooth and threw it in the trash.

We don't actually know if the tooth story is a complete lie (but why?) or there was a tooth, but PF never told her about it, she found it during cleanup, jammed in the grill.

A juror sympathetic to PF (or just really disgusted by KK and her 'deal') might rightly argue that there's no actual evidence about the tooth.

I wouldn't be that juror, just based on the evidence released so far. But PF looks like one of those guys who will attract female groupies even if he confesses and is convicted.

 

[acutename]

KK stopped by the Franch to pick up keys to KB's townhome. She parked her car close by I can't recall the exact spot but supposedly walked to KB's from there.

as per KK, if you believe her, she picked up KB's keys at the locked gate to the ranch. she parked at the Community Center and walked with her clean up stuff to KB's. when leaving, she put her garbage at the curb, and then got her car, drove around and picked up the bags. (thus a cadaver dog hit there). some of us asked if she took all the bags. also seems then that a cadaver dog would have hit on the borrowed VW (Jetta/Passat- various in the affidavit) if it had been checked. no one understands the sock in KB's Toyota corolla. maybe not related to the crime. there is also a mention, I think, of KK driving PF back to pick up his truck... guess they drove to Nash together in the VW and then back (?). Fuzzy about that because it seemed unclear when the truck was dropped off initially.

 

[NWLady]

Great points here and this is why I've had that nagging little suspicion about KB's remains. PF removed KB from the townhome, drove her to Nash Ranch to drop her off. Went back to Nash Ranch with KK to retrieve the tote and transport it back to Franch to burn. It seems like a lot more unnecessary risk involved.

Then again, we are speaking of Dumb and Dumber here. I can see merits to both sides and I wonder if we will ever really know the truth. I think PF is a lot more devious than folks give him credit for.

Just jumping off your post -

I think he kept the body for 1 of 2 reasons: 1) Hoping that KK was going to dispose of the body. 2) KK wanted to be there when he burned the body (after all, we have to remember she made 3 trips of approximately 1600 miles each with intent to kill KB) and was probably more than happy that KB was finally out of the picture. JMO

 

[acutename]

I think KK believes KB's body was in the tote. See AA linked below page 10 number 71.
The more I think about it, the more it makes the most sense that it is probably true however sad it is.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

I think that the tote was taken to Nash on Thanksgiving because PF did not want it around whomever was at SF's on the holiday. KK did not come for several days after that. Thus the extra storage location.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree, I’m just curious if they asked her descriptive questions at all because purely IMO but if they asked her to describe the smell and she says something like “it just smelled like gas, oil, and plastic” would that make them question if the body was in there? KWIM?

There was time enough for her, to google for "burning bodies", sitting in front of the bonfire (while the headache medicine was working).