Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.

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  1. Hatch

    Hatch Well-Known Member

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    So I am wondering if they were in Kelsey's truck when they went to check cattle? She dropped him off and then went to WP to get stomach meds for PF and returned to the ranch to give the meds to him,then returned back to WP and not getting in bed until 4 a.m. The mention of KK saying on the 24 th they went by the condo to pick PF truck up makes you wonder if they were in his truck and she took it home?
    This may not be of importance, but if she took PF truck home, then someone had to bring him back to get it on the 22 nd so he could make his Walmart run. If someone brought him to pick his truck up on the morning of the 22 nd, who was it?
    Adding: could he of had two trucks at KB on the morning of the 22nd one in back possibly and then on the morning of the 22nd did he drive his other truck that morning to KB's condo pick up babyK and then return and we all know the story from there. Hope this is not confusing?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  2. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    It certainly is possible that she drove his truck. I actually hadn't thought about that before. I'll have to think about that and how it could affect things. Thats some good thinking, Hatch.
     
  3. ajaylee

    ajaylee Well-Known Member

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    I thought PF possibly set up the cattle run so they took KK's truck because he was considering making her 'disappear' somewhere that night. He'd dump her, drive himself and Baby K back to the condo, pick up his own truck and go back to the ranchette.

    That's pure speculation on my part, because I haven't seen any evidence about whose truck they took to do the cattle run or where they met up.
     
  4. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    We do know that PF's red truck that was seen by the neighbour on the 22nd was taken by LE. On the morning of his arrest he was in a blue/green (?) truck and if I'm not mistaken, on the day of the publicized transfer station run with his two buddies, he was in a white truck. He obviously had access to more trucks than most :) I too have wondered about PF and KK returning to the condo to pick up his truck.
     
  5. Kapua

    Kapua Well-Known Member

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    BBM - With regard to PF having access to more trucks than most, he may have inherited his late father's truck. Pure speculation and MOO.
     
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  6. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    Its pretty common for those in the ranching business to have more than one truck. Its almost necessary. So I am not surprised that he had a couple.
     
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  7. gngr~snap

    gngr~snap Verified Professional Pediatric Nurse

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  8. eve9059

    eve9059 New Member

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    Hi all Eve here,
    This is my first post so correct any rule violations/mistakes so I can learn. Been following this closely:

    My opinion:
    PF is the brains here, particularly given his temperament and stronger motive (even if it’s vicariously through his family.) He wasn’t “leaving KB for KK,” he was using a desperate and pathetic woman. She strikes me as the type to fall in love with and wed serial killers on death row, driving thousands of miles to do his bidding, not unlike Kelsey’s sad last night on earth. I think he did it but there is reasonable doubt for that, and I believe they charged him twice with murder for that reason, the second charge being murder “alone or with another person” and adding robbery to make it a felony murder conviction (the party to a crime thing-you don’t have to be there-not sure if CO even has it or if that’s what they’re doing but that’s what I “heard”.)

    My concerns:
    Specifically,

    * in one of the threads with the extremely detailed timeline with almost court transcripts, it says specifically that PF called a burner phone that pinged near him on the 22nd. The CBI testifying says that twice. Am I misinterpreting that? If not, then the prosecution has a real problem. Because that would support KK being there (southwest of KB’s house I think). How she could be in Ida the 23rd to trade cars I don’t know but it’s not good. Particularly since she admitted to burning multiple burner phones.
    *KK says she was “instructed” to go to KB’s house to send a text. That implies that they aren’t stupid when it comes to cell phones. So what, then, is the purpose of burner phones? Surely PF knows that having KB’s phone with him for two days sending messages back and forth is not him being stupid. It must be purposeful.
    *Generally I’m allergic to conspiracy theories but I believe he is trying to frame KK who is by no means innocent but they will pin it all on her and I’m afraid at least one juror will buy it. If they were using burners will there be evidence beyond her word of the solicitations? If not, that will be gone.

    I see KK’s thrice attempted murders (if true) as-hear me out-more of a testament to her character. Not compared to a normal person- but compared to him. If that is true and they can prove it, it shows that she was pathetic and immoral but ultimately couldn’t or wouldn’t do it. I think PF could as he’s abusive to animals and that tells me all I need to know.

    Bottom line: they’re both equally involved. The CSI effect though makes people confuse “reasonable” doubt with “bloody fingerprints and a video of the murder.” I mean, look at all of Scott Peterson’s supporters-there’s’s an astounding amount of circumstantial evidence but an enormous amount of people think he’s innocent. There is much less here. They’re both involved and I fear they may both walk. Poor KB, baby K and dear sweet CB. It’s always the sweetest and least deserving it seems that this happens to.

    That was a lot. Any thoughts welcome, especially if you have more information/evidence re: burner phone communication on the 22nd. CBI agent confirms it twice that he is either by his or her house and the burner is Southwest of Kb’s House and then Divide. Problematic!
     
  9. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Welcome to Websleuths, eve9059! :) Are you able to provide any more detail as to where this (see BBM) was stated? I looked, but am unable to find it, but it sounds like someone may have confused the pings between KB/PF's phone with those of KK/PF.

    Regarding Adams' testimony about the calls on Nov 22:

    Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
    The prosecution asked Adams to detail the information that officers learned from a warrant on Frazee and Berreth’s respective cell phones.

    Adams said there were two calls between the former couple on Nov. 22 — the day Berreth was last seen. Both of their phones pinged off the tower that services Berreth’s apartment at around 12:30 p.m. that day, Adams said, and sometime that evening, both phones pinged off a tower indicating they were headed west.

    MOO
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  10. Plo_Koon

    Plo_Koon Well-Known Member

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    BBM, what a scary thought.
    Welcome to WS, Eve!
     
  11. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    Yeah, this was actually discussed in a previous thread.

    There were some confusing Tweets regarding Slater’s testimony, that almost made it sound like KK’s phone was pinging in Colorado during the minutes following KB’s likely murder.

    The context was PF’s and Kelsey’s phone location after he left Kelsey’s house.

    He was in contact with KK’s burner phone, which had an Idaho number.

    Slater was not saying that KK was in Colorado, nor was her location at the time ever discussed in court testimony.

    All we know is that LE certainly knows where KK was at the time, and it was not Colorado.

    We’ll have to wait until trial for the specifics.
     
  12. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    There was some truck, PF had also to return to KB, because it was her's ..... :confused::confused:
    Maybe, the mastermind created a story of his car/s been at KB, her car/s been at the Franch and vice versa in relatively quick succession. Finally nobody knows, for which purpose which car was where. His plan?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  13. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    Unfortunately, in order to discern PF’s likely plan, we would have to get inside his head.

    That would require a reduction of brain cells that could only be achieved by copious amounts of drugs, alcohol, and CTE.

    He is as evil as he is stupid.
     
  14. Love Never Fails

    Love Never Fails Well-Known Member

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    Hi Eve. Welcome! Great post. I think you may have misunderstood the phone pings. I see PommyMommy and MG and others addressed this. I think the DA is saving a lot for trial. Let’s do hope PF was the brains behind this. That means the DA has a slam dunk case. I agree he was setting KK up to take the fall. What a horrible monster he is. As for KK, she gets no sympathy from me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  15. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    I’m definitely open to the idea that during the solicitation attempts, he was more than ok with her taking the fall.

    “I had no idea she was going to do this.”

    In the aftermath of the murder itself though, I don’t believe that was the case.

    If KK was caught, he would have been caught.

    Ironically, that’s exactly what happened.
     
  16. Love Never Fails

    Love Never Fails Well-Known Member

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    But I think his arrogance made him believe he could pin it on KK somehow. Even after the murder. He just wasn’t smart enough to think it through. I believe he knows he is done but will still plead not guilty, praying for a hung jury. I would love to know what his thoughts are right now. I am certain he believed KK was so in love with him she would never tell on him. As it turns out, I am sure she was just in heat.
     
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  17. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    Heartbreaking as what he did to Kelsey is, I enjoy the fact that his betrayal of her, is now being paid back via KK’s betrayal of him.

    Karma.
     
  18. ab01

    ab01 Well-Known Member

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    It’s also ironic that he tried so hard to get someone else to murder kB for him so as not to get caught presumably......

    But yet in the end he goes and kills her in her own home with a baseball bat and attempts to destroy evidence on his own property....

    Go sit in the corner of your cozy jail cell with a dunce hat on .....you flippin moron

    ETA: MOEO
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  19. Love Never Fails

    Love Never Fails Well-Known Member

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    Ha! Exactly! Must be quite a shock to his system for a woman to betray him. Now if only Ma Frazee would do the same.
     
  20. SandyQLS

    SandyQLS may your life be filled with avocados

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    Thread#39, page 75, Prelim hearing 2/19/2019, CBI Agent Slater testifying:

    Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
    State says Frazee also called an Idaho number at 4:37 p.m. Slater says it hit off the same tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. Shortly after, he received a call from that same number. Slater says it pinged off a tower in Divide. @KOAA

    Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
    At this point, police had PF’s phone & records for his phone. Agents found PF called his mother around 4:24 p.m. They determined his phone pinged off a tower near Berreth’s townhome, heading west from there. @KOAA

    @eve9059
    In context, Slater was referring to PF's pings which are further verified hitting the WP and Divide towers in the depths of the SW's, try SW112 page14, for 11/22:

    4:24 PF calls SF1, PF phone uses WP tower, southwest sector
    4:37 PF calls KK, PF phone uses WP tower, east sector
    4:43 KK calls PF, PF phone uses Divide tower
    4:49 PF phone pings null, PF phone uses Florissant tower

    JMO LE has provided no information about where and when any of KK's burner phones pinged or made calls that I have seen, except in the AW item#72 where the claim is made that "all three phones were connected to the CC tower between 17:01-18:14 on Nov. 24" which is obviated by other statements in the SW's stating KB's phone's last ping was on 11/24 at 4:03PM at Florissant (SW#112 page 19) IMO
     
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