CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[susiQ]

I’m one who doesn’t think KB was in the black tote or the landfill. I think PF knew LE would check landfills. I think she was dumped in the vast outdoors somewhere. Much harder for LE to find.

At this point, I believe either scenario is a possibility. I'd just like to have that convo with KK If he "tossed" the tote into the trough I'd lean towards her not being in the tote.
Is there anything in particular that convinces you she was not in it?

 

[Charlot123]

PF is the person who does not understand how the technology works. The phone part of it he messed up totally. Yet he very well knows how to hide the body, because he is the farmer, the hunter, and lives on this land. He did well with that part.

Much as if it came to the phones, i’d ask Verizon, AT@T or T-Mobile rep, to understand how to hide the body, one has to talk to a person like him, a farmer, a local, maybe a dog breeder, a cowboy. But mostly, a local. Just to understand the pattern of thinking behind it.

I feel that the LE is handling KK very nicely, and that they are handling PF’s family nicely. I understand that they are relatives, but they are in the LE system, and a heinous crime has been committed. Essentially, their brother is the true criminal, a murderer. There could have been ways to talk to his family to make PF more cooperative. My feeling is, PF is probably a sick, paranoid, angry man, but if he cares about anyone, it is his family.

 

[PrairieWind]

Just curious, what leads you to believe she wasn't in the black tote? I know there are others who feel this way too. I'm still of the mind she was in the tote that melted in the bonfire. Although, I must add, I'd like to talk to KK and ask her how PF appeared lifting the tote into the metal trough. If KB's 110 lbs wasn't in it, it would have been a quick "toss" as apposed to a more strenuous "lift". JMO

It is illogical to burn a body in a fire like that. PF would know that. He seems to have gone to lengths to have KK with him to retrieve the tote and witness the burning, but not see the body itself. I think this was intentional. He wanted her to THINK KB was in there and was burned. But I suspect he had already disposed of her by then. Probably buried in the mountains or out on the prairie. Her unburned remains are his last trump card. KK says she saw a lump. I think that could have been anything, including an animal body (dog, etc). I think the DA is suspicious and that is part of why they just spend a fortune to search the landfill.

 

[sun16]

At this point, I believe either scenario is a possibility. I'd just like to have that convo with KK If he "tossed" the tote into the trough I'd lean towards her not being in the tote.
Is there anything in particular that convinces you she was not in it?

How KK described the tote as having a lump. Though KB is small in stature, I think she’d be bigger than a lump. And I don’t believe PF dismembered KB. Too crazy IMO. I think the items in the tote were random items. I also think if a body were burning, KK and mom Frazee would have known from the smell. I also think there would have been something, forensically from burned flesh, found near the burn scene. I think burning KB would have just been too much and something PF wouldn’t have wanted to do. Kind of extreme. Too much could go wrong. Maybe I give him too much benefit of that doubt. Dumping in the outdoors seems much easier—KB might never be found—and the elements will do all the work to decompose the body and only leave bones. I understand this is my opinion only and others might feel differently. We come up with these opinions based on common sense, gut feeling, evidence we know of and likelihood based on past cases.
If KK makes it to the stand and testifies, with specifics, about a body burning and how/why, I’ll be stunned. I could be wrong, but I think the major thing PF did not tell KK is exactly where he put KB’s body. That would be his one, most important detail to keep to himself.

 

[susiQ]

It is illogical to burn a body in a fire like that. PF would know that. He seems to have gone to lengths to have KK with him to retrieve the tote and witness the burning, but not see the body itself. I think this was intentional. He wanted her to THINK KB was in there and was burned. But I suspect he had already disposed of her by then. Probably buried in the mountains or out on the prairie. Her unburned remains are his last trump card. KK says she saw a lump. I think that could have been anything, including an animal body (dog, etc). I think the DA is suspicious and that is part of why they just spend a fortune to search the landfill.

It may be "illogical" to burn a body like that but many murderers have done exactly that. He could have disposed of the "blob" somewhere other than the transfer station, like down a mineshaft. By all accounts, PF is NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer or as my late beloved father would say, "a few bricks short of a load." I agree, she may not have been in the tote, I'm just not fully convinced myself that she wasn't in there.
ed:to make sense.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I’m one who doesn’t think KB was in the black tote or the landfill. I think PF knew LE would check landfills. I think she was dumped in the vast outdoors somewhere. Much harder for LE to find.

I continue to wonder about the text PF sent saying he went to Lake George. Which I am hearing isn’t really a lake, but a community. Still, it’s on the way to Eleven Mile State Park and reservoir. But I trust LE to know when it’s time to stop searching.

Now I want to know next steps to declare Kelsey legally deceased. And when PF’s parental rights can be terminated due to incarceration.

Hoping our attorneys on here may answer. Else, off to google I go..

 

[?mysterian?]

How KK described the tote as having a lump. Though KB is small in stature, I think she’d be bigger than a lump. And I don’t believe PF dismembered KB. Too crazy IMO. I think the items in the tote were random items. I also think if a body were burning, KK and mom Frazee would have known from the smell. I also think there would have been something, forensically from burned flesh, found near the burn scene. I think burning KB would have just been too much and something PF wouldn’t have wanted to do. Kind of extreme. Too much could go wrong. Maybe I give him too much benefit of that doubt. Dumping in the outdoors seems much easier—KB might never be found—and the elements will do all the work to decompose the body and only leave bones. I understand this is my opinion only and others might feel differently. We come up with these opinions based on common sense, gut feeling, evidence we know of and likelihood based on past cases.
If KK makes it to the stand and testifies, with specifics, about a body burning and how/why, I’ll be stunned. I could be wrong, but I think the major thing PF did not tell KK is exactly where he put KB’s body. That would be his one, most important detail to keep to himself.

Burned/burning human flesh has a distinct, unforgettable smell. PF has done other illogical things r/t this case that we know about: his blunders with the phones, allegedly brutally beating KB to the point where enough of her blood remained after clean-up efforts by KK ( involving someone else could be considered illogical--someone else knows the dirty secrets), his bank trip with his buddy, etc. I'm undecided about whether he burned her body or not, if so, I don't think he could've had a hot enough and long enough fire to completely get rid of it. Maybe now that the landfill search has concluded, LE will attempt to determine where KB's remains are in other ways.

 

[MassGuy]

It is illogical to burn a body in a fire like that. PF would know that. He seems to have gone to lengths to have KK with him to retrieve the tote and witness the burning, but not see the body itself. I think this was intentional. He wanted her to THINK KB was in there and was burned. But I suspect he had already disposed of her by then. Probably buried in the mountains or out on the prairie. Her unburned remains are his last trump card. KK says she saw a lump. I think that could have been anything, including an animal body (dog, etc). I think the DA is suspicious and that is part of why they just spend a fortune to search the landfill.

“Illogical” is this guy’s middle name:

Choosing a baseball bat as a murder weapon.

Bringing KK into this plot in the first place.

Going with the “suicide scenario” as opposed to something far simpler.

The most illogical thing though, is leaving a bloody crime scene for two days.

That’s nuts, that’s reckless, that’s PF in a nutshell.

A guy who does that, isn’t going to go through some whole burning ruse.

He apparently wanted KK to take Kelsey’s body back to Idaho with her.

If he had already disposed of Kelsey’s body and wanted to pull the wool over KK’s eyes, then that’s some super advanced thinking from a guy who by all appearances and actions, is a complete moron.

He’s not some criminal mastermind, he’s PF.

 

[susiQ]

“Illogical” is this guy’s middle name:

Choosing a baseball bat as a murder weapon.

Bringing KK into this plot in the first place.

Going with the “suicide scenario” as opposed to something far simpler.

The most illogical thing though, is leaving a bloody crime scene for two days.

That’s nuts, that’s reckless, that’s PF.

A guy who does that, isn’t going to go through some whole burning ruse.

He apparently wanted KK to take Kelsey’s body back to Idaho with her.

If he had already disposed of Kelsey’s body and wanted to pull the wool over KK’s eyes, then that’s some super advanced thinking from a guy who by all appearances and actions, is a complete moron.

He’s not some criminal mastermind, he’s PF.

Yeah! I just love this!! Wish I could have penned that

 

[steeltowngirl]

He apparently wanted KK to take Kelsey’s body back to Idaho with her.

Sure wish he had let KK take the body to Idaho. She took the gun and gave it away, and it turned up. She took the cell phone and practically let it ping to her backyard.

If KK had taken the body, she probably would have forgotten and left it in the friend’s borrowed car. Along with Sonic wrappers.

 

[MassGuy]

Sure wish he had let KK take the body to Idaho. She took the gun and gave it away, and it turned up. She took the cell phone and practically let it ping to her backyard.

If KK had taken the body, she probably would have forgotten and left it in the friend’s borrowed car. Along with Sonic wrappers.

Yup, had she done that, Kelsey’s body would have been recovered.

She wasn’t willing to get her hands that dirty though.

 

[Hatch]

Oh I agree, its horrible that Kelsey’s family will not even have the small comfort of being able to give her a proper burial.

I genuinely don’t believe that KK knows where Kelsey’s remains are located though, and I can’t wait to learn what caused law enforcement to focus on that landfill.

It doesn’t make sense for her to implicate herself in 3 near murder attempts, cleaning a murder scene, misleading an investigation, watching a body burn, and not to divulge the dump site, if she actually knew where it was.

She’s already exposed herself, and helping them find Kelsey’s remains, would be something that would actually make her look better.

PF couldn’t have told her, for whatever reason.

A third party may have exposed of the remains , therefore PF or KK may not know where they are, if they don't know they could pass poly's saying I do not know. I cannot see PF giving up that third party if that is what happened.

 

[MassGuy]

A third party may have exposed of the remains , therefore PF or KK may not know where they are, if they don't know they could pass poly's saying I do not know. I cannot see PF giving up that third party if that is what happened.

I can’t see PF involving a third party in the first place.

I think the list of people who know where Kelsey’s remains are, is a short one.

One name in fact.

 

[Hatch]

I agree I don’t believe PF ever told kk what he did with KB remains. Probably only something along the lines of it’s taken care of and they won’t find her, just keep your mouth shut. Oops kk didn’t keep her mouth shut.....moo

ETA
I think if she knew she would have talked, I'm sure her lawyer told her when they were talking about the deal, Hey if you know now is the time to tell them everything you know. There is no need to try to protect yourself or PF. He's done for and you have no reason to not tell them etc... I can help you but you need to help yourself..... MOO

seems logical to me anyways

I agree and KK left in the early morning hours to head back to Idaho , PF IMO did not want her to know where the remains were going to end up.

 

[Hatch]

Was afraid they'd find nothing there, but then I suspect there's not much of anything left to find. I too think they need to search river edges downstream of the property.

Perhaps drone fly the gorge if possible.

 

[Hatch]

I can’t see PF involving a third party in the first place.

I think the list of people who know where Kelsey’s remains are, is a short one.

One name in fact.

I am not so sure his friend and mentor that went to the bank and around with him may hold the key. IMO it is a possibility he knows. PF called KK and called Momma right after the murder, he cannot keep his own secrets.

 

[Hatch]

I do think LE will really get down to the nitty gritty on those phone pings now. Possibly more interviews. We can sure hope for that. If there are more roaches, then they need to be gassed and come to the open.

 

[MassGuy]

I am not so sure his friend and mentor that went to the bank and around with him may hold the key. IMO it is a possibility he knows. PF called KK and called Momma right after the murder, he cannot keep his own secrets.

That guy is on the older side, and I question if he would have been physically able to do that, even if I did buy that PF handed off the disposal to a third party (I don’t).

As for the phone call to his mom, I think that’s likely unrelated to the murder.

I think he was just letting her know that he’d be running a little late to dinner.

 

[Hatch]

That guy is on the older side, and I question if he would have been physically able to do that, even if I did buy that PF handed off the disposal to a third party (I don’t).

As for the phone call to his mom, I think that’s likely unrelated to the murder.

I think he was just letting her know that he’d be running a little late to dinner.

Well maybe next week we will have more news of new developments. I am not sure of the age of that guy maybe early 7o's but I think it very possible he would be able to dig or toss. 70 is the new 55

 

[ilovechili]

I never thought KB's remains were at the landfill. KK knows exactly where her remains are. So does PF's older "friend"(moo) Time for LE to start searching nearby rivers and local MINE SHAFTS for whatever remains there are. So sad nothing came of the landfill. Continued prayers for KB's family

I totally agree. If KK wielded a bat (no pun intended), she would be zero for how many for RBI as to any physical evidence her "help" has provided. No evidence to speak of yet that she provided nor that only she could have provided. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Nothing. She gets a sweet deal for nothing but flapping her big yap. Now we can add no remains to that list. I hoped for the family but never thought KB was in that landfill.

No way did "Mr. Silent" (as stated by a few people) spill the beans to her of all of the nitty gritty details down to sweaters, candles, a tooth with roots, baby present, etc. but not share what he did with the body. He spilled all or nothing.

KB also did not burn in that couple of hour fire pit yet her remains were cleaned up so well but plastic balls were not?? Unless they found presence of KB that none of us have heard yet. I doubt it somehow.

They are both evil but I go back and forth on who has a little more smarts. KK may have turned coat but PF is not locked into a story. He has a lie or two but then he shut up. Unless they are being held back, there is no video of him removing a tote, KB from the condo nor anything else on the 22nd. KK on the other hand has an entire allegedly non-fiction mini-series of who could make this **** up statements to document. She is not on trial, tis true, but she basically will be when she is in that chair testifying.

I agree the petition will do no good but some statements in it are interesting. For instance, the couple of statements that say KK stalked KB on Pinterest and helped stalk her on Pinterest. Another is the statement that they conspired to kill KB since December of 2017. KK states she did not know of KB and baby until July of 2018. Where does this information come from? I have never heard it but neither thing would surprise me and so would it fit in with what I think is fairly obvious, that even upon the deal she lied or massaged a few things both outright and by omission.

As always, I remain solid in that they are both guilty as sin, partners in crime and both about as bad as the other, but as far as who had the edge in manipulation, well...

All jmo and omo.