CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[Hatch]

Petition: Did any members or close friends of PF sign the petition to prosecute KK? Hopefully LE will take a close look at who signed it. I would have a face to face with any persons that have been mentioned casually or has any ties to PF during this case that signed it. But that is just me, have to know what is behind the green door.
Adding: I was brought up to never sign your name to any public petitions.

 

[MassGuy]

Petition: Did any members or close friends of PF sign the petition to prosecute KK? Hopefully LE will take a close look at who signed it. I would have a face to face with anybody that have been mentioned casually during this case signed it. But that is just me, have to know what is behind the green door.

It’s so small that I think it’s unlikely.

You’re talking about a couple thousand people from all across the country.

People who think that the Feds are going to feel some pressure to step in and take the ball from the state.

If the time exists for this sort of thing, it’s after the trial is over, not now.

I think it’s pointless anyways, atleast in regards to achieving their stated goal.

 

[Hatch]

It’s so small that I think it’s unlikely.

You’re talking about a couple thousand people from all across the country.

People who think that the Feds are going to feel some pressure to step in and take the ball from the state.

If the time exists for this sort of thing, it’s after the trial is over, not now.

I think it’s pointless anyways, atleast in regards to achieving their stated goal.

So it was a social media petition and not a local petition ? If it is SM then I totally agree MG.

 

[MassGuy]

So it was a social media petition and not a local petition ? If it is SM then I totally agree MG.

Yeah, it’s a change.org petition. Anyone can sign it, and you don’t have to be a Colorado resident.

 

[Hatch]

Yeah, it’s a change.org petition. Anyone can sign it, and you don’t have to be a Colorado resident.

Gotcha ! I just went and read some of the comments , one of KB friends commented on it.
It just states A Group of Conerned Citizens. Since it is .org LE may not give it to much attention.
Hopefully someone that has access to the signatures will give it a brief look see.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I can’t see PF involving a third party in the first place.

I think the list of people who know where Kelsey’s remains are, is a short one.

One name in fact.

Really? See, I can see him calling old "what's-his-name" for body disposal so neither PF or KK would know. Afterall, he and PF have been friends for years, doncha know?

MOO, MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Really? See, I can see him calling old "what's-his-name" for body disposal so neither PF or KK would know. Afterall, he and PF have been friends for years, doncha know?

MOO, MOO

That would be nice, as it would offer hope. But I don’t think that optimism is rooted in fact here.

PF killed Kelsey, stored her body, retrieved it, burned it, and then did God knows what with her remains.

If he did have help, there would be a phone call on the morning of the 25th. No contact with our friend, then I think it’s likely he did it alone.

I don’t think he waited that long though, or that it was necessary.

I hope law enforcement turned the screws on him, just in case.

 

[ilovechili]

I’m bothered by the fact that it took a phone call from CB, to cause LE to view the house as a crime scene.

Even then, they didn’t find blood evidence in the living room area.

It took KK’s cooperation for that.

That blood evidence, especially the blood under the floorboards and splatter on the fireplace, will prove huge.

The physical evidence found at the barn (discolored hay), and the area on PF’s property where the burn site was located, will also help the prosecution (also thanks to her).

Nope, she wasn’t able to provide law enforcement with the physical evidence you mentioned, but she gave them enough to corroborate her account.

That’s only part of the case too.

I am sure the blood evidence is KB's, probably without a doubt. I do not know exactly what that says about PF. KK places herself in the home and video places PF in the home. Do they have PF blood mingled with KB's, the murder weapon, the tooth, the sweater, a candle, etc.?

As for the discolored hay, did they get blood and DNA from it? Again KK places herself there. Since she covers herself throughout having never seen the body, well then we do not know that there was ever a body on a hay bale, in a tote, or in the fire.

She has provided nothing other than a story, not one physical piece of evidence and in her entire story, every bit of it, she has such knowledge she sounds like a firsthand witness to it.

All I have to say is they had better be able to account for every minute of her time before and after. Video ideally and more.

Because there are two people with motives here and two people intricately (and intimately!) involved. I in no way think he is innocent but neither is she.

I do not like playing devil's advocate, I want them both going away but I do not like the case as it stands right now from what we know. Maybe I will be amazed at a slam dunk one sided trial with all of the evidence not known. She may not be the one on trial but when she hits that witness stand, she will basically be on trial by the defense.

Again, not one bit of physical evidence was gained from the deal with her.

I also am not so sure who corroborated whose account.

I have said it before and will again, they would have a better case without her. With her, there are two people who wanted her dead. Without her, PF would be the obvious one.

We do not have to agree. I hope to no end that he goes down but I will never let go of my belief that she should be going down as well. I do not care who pulled the proverbial trigger so to speak or swung the bat. She is dead because of the TWO of them. Either could have stopped it, both wanted it and both tried to do it.

imvho.

 

[ilovechili]

Just choosing one here - There was a crime scene found under the wood floor of the condo, enough blood that PF sits in the pokey awaiting trial. Yes, they are co-conspirators but who's laughing now?

KK, just for starters.

She may not be happy with some of her life right now but make no mistake, there is much glee and laughter at her perceived brilliance in duping on certain parts. I as someone said above think money would have been better spent searching the gorge and dumpsters and other KK stops, for a body or even remains from a fire that did not burn long enough imo.

I mean really, she could not be caught with remains and allegedly refuses to take them but she takes the gun, the phone, those other major things that would tie her to KB and her murder...

If there is one thing that cannot be argued successfully, it is that a multitude of people are extremely unhappy with the deal LE gave her and quite honestly, why wouldn't they be? Look at her involvement. She was allegedly advised to go to LE long before. She is as guilty for KB's death as he is and will receive a slap on the hand, if that.

Perhaps instead of caving to such a deal they should have thrown her in a jail cell for a bit for lying and obstruction while negotiating a stronger than 18 month possible sentence... Or three years possibly as if people should be tickled to hear that possibly it could be up to three whole full years, well wow, and we should be happy with that??

Something says to me KK in a jail cell and isolated without makeup, etc. for her court appearance, would not be happy and would be dealing faster just to get out. PF probably handles it better, not a compliment, just more of a solitary type... KK craves attention, until that attention is negative. It is killing her right now to not be out and about with some new drama imo.

Not an argument, just my own opinion and observations and the occasional vent.

It would have been so much better for them to find her, as they did, and then play them back and forth at each other and get them both.

She is and will remain imo a liability. Clearcut case of fiance killing KB without her as a possible other perp. I remain hopeful they have more than we know to close that door with all the jurors...

And that she goes away for a long time as well over something at some point...

I can still dream anyhow...

 

[Hatch]

That would be nice, as it would offer hope. But I don’t think that optimism is rooted in fact here.

PF killed Kelsey, stored her body, retrieved it, burned it, and then did God knows what with her remains.

If he did have help, there would be a phone call on the morning of the 25th. No contact with our friend, then I think it’s likely he did it alone.

I don’t think he waited that long though, or that it was necessary.

I hope law enforcement turned the screws on him, just in case.

There were pings near RS place on the night of the 22nd and several times thereafter, RS also went and picked up the package at KB condo , he told PF to stay in the car so he would not be on video . Lots of pings back n forth to his area and the Nash ranch.
He may be untouchable due to his clout around town, but I sure would be bringing him in for quite a grilling, and also ask him if he minded LE borrowing his phone for a day or two.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Timeline - PART 3
(March 1, 2019 - June 24, 2019)

March 1, 2019 - Friday

• PF filed a motion in Teller County District Court asking a judge to deny a claim by Berreth’s parents. Colorado’s wrongful death statute clearly states that the Berreths have no standing to make a legal claim based on the alleged wrongful death of Kelsey Berreth, the motion says.

March 4, 2019 - Monday

• PF - Legal Argument Hearing - 8:30 am

Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330

• Judge agreed to unseal 22 of the 28 search warrants, he did not allow the exhibits displayed at the preliminary hearing to be made public. Both the prosecution and defense agreed that they did not want those released ahead of the trial. Some of the 22 warrants to be made public this week detail records from Verizon, Google and Facebook.
• The state and defense agreed to move a decision about consumptive evidence testing until after PF’s arraignment. Consumptive testing involves evidence that can only be tested one time, likely due to the size of the evidence or the material in question.

March 6, 2019 - Wednesday

• Search warrants released Colorado Judicial Branch

March 7, 2019 - Thursday

• Motion filed by defense

March 11, 2019 - Monday

• PF Wrongful Death - Scheduling and Planning Conference - 1:30 pm (Vacated pending a ruling on motion filed by defense on 3/7/19)

Case: 19-cv-00027-PAB-KMT

April 4, 2019 - Thursday

• Disposition Hearing (Custody) - 8:30am

Case #: D602018JV26

• EF, PF’s sister, was also at the hearing with her partner. She’s vying for custody of her niece as well.
• The Teller County District Court once again ruled on Thursday that PF and KB's 1-year-old daughter will stay in the custody of the child's maternal grandparents.

Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search

April 5, 2019 - Friday

• PF - Arraignment - 8:30 am

Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330

• The defense requests a continuance. The people have no objection.
• No plea today. Judge Sells reschedules arraignment for 5/24.
• Both parties want seven more weeks for forensic evidence testing. Defense feels PF needs that information before moving forward.
• Judge Scott Sells says he doesn’t think it’s appropriate to set a trial date until all parties have more info on forensic testing.
• Judge granted defense access to DHS records.
• The testing they’re waiting on is the consumptive testing, which they still have to finalize a procedure for. May says some of the evidence hasn’t been tested yet.
• May says it’s not the time to think about pursuing the death penalty. It must happen after arraignment. After the plea, they have 9 weeks to decide.
• When asked about a change of venue, May says that’s a question for the defense, who would request that.
• May says he won’t comment on whether a plea deal is being pursued.
• Beth Reed talked about the social services record. She’s referencing the lack of reports suggesting Kelsey Berreth harmed her daughter (like PF claimed). She says these records are post-arrest.

April 17, 2019 - Wednesday

• Woodland Park Police have concluded their search of the Midway Landfill. They did not find Kelsey Berreth’s remains.

May 24, 2019 - Friday

• PF - Arraignment - 8:30 am

Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330

June 13, 2019 - Thursday

• PF Review with Appearance of Parties (Custody) - 8:15am

Case #: D602018JV26
(Review with appearance is to advise the court the status of the case and how the parties want to proceed. The parties are required to appear in court in person.)

June 24, 2019 - Monday

• KK- Review Hearing - 11 am - Teller County

Case #: D602019CR17
(KK is allowed to appear for review hearings by phone until closer to sentencing)

KB, PF and KK’s cell phone communication and locations information between Nov. 22 - Dec. 4

• Nov. 22, 2018 - The analysis of the cell phone data revealed that KB and PF cellular phones connected to the same Verizon tower in WP at 12:23 p.m when KB missed a call from PF at 12:31 p.m.
• Nov. 22, 2018 - Both KB and PF’s phones were seen by towers near Cripple Creek in the evening, traveling in the same directions and often similar distances from the cell towers hen measurements were captured by the Verizon network. This would indicate the phones were likely together.
• Nov. 22, 2018 - KK spoke with PF at 4:30 p.m. PF texted KK asking for her to call him. PF eventually called KK, saying, she had to get to CO because she had a mess to clean up. KK interpreted that as KB was dead. Cell phone records support this cell phone conversation.
• Nov. 23, 2018 - both KB and PF’s phones utilized the Verizon cell tower in Florisant, along with the sector facing PF’s residence when PF’s phone called KB’s phone in the morning. Later in the day, both phones then appear to travel together from the area of PF’s residence towards the same area west of Cripple Creek and both phones had visited the prior evening before returning in the direction of PF’s residence.
• Nov. 24, 2018 - Both KB and PF’s phones utilized the Verizon cell tower in Florisant, along with the sector facing PF’s residence when PF’s phone called KB’s phone first thing in the morning. Both phones eventually travel to same area west of Cripple Creek.
• Nov. 24, 2018 - Call records indicate PF and KK communicated at 7:23 a.m., 10:47 a.m., 11:39 a.m., 1:06 p.m. and 5:21 p.m. (KK initially told LE she was at PF’s residence at this time)
• Nov. 24, 2018 - KK’s cell phone was connected to a cell tower and also to a sector of that tower that would service KB’s residence on the morning of Nov. 24, 2018. The tower is some distance from the PF residence and likely wouldn’t service his residence.
• Nov. 24, 2018 - KK sent Meghan a text message in the afternoon, asking if she could stay the night at her house because she had too much to drink. Meghan said the content of the message was false and was only meant to establish an alibi in case CL checked KK’s phone or called Meghan to see where KK was.
• Nov. 24 and or Nov. 25, 2018 - KB’s cellular phone likely traveled from CO via I 70 into Utah and I 15 through Salt Lake City into Idaho during the evening of Nov. 24 and/or the morning of Nov. 25.
• Nov. 24 and or Nov. 25, 2018 - KK’s phone traveled back to Idaho on the 24th or 25th of November. KK’s phone was connected to the exact same tower an sectors in a remote area of the Colorado/Utah border on the morning of Nov. 25. KK’s phone was connected to the tower at approximately 4:13 a.m., 4:17 a.m. and 4:23 a.m. KB’s phone was connected to the tower at approximately 4:11 a.m. and 4:16 a.m.
• Nov. 25, 2018 - Last activity for KB’s phone at 5:13 p.m. approximately 6.38 W/Sw from a Verizon cell tower in Gooding, Idaho. That distance placed the phone at or near Malad Gorge State Park, which is supported by additional tower measurements from Verizon in the minutes leading up to that data point.
• Nov. 25, 2018 - KK was in cell phone communication with PF on her return trip to Idaho, including shortly after the last activity of KB’s cell phone.
• Dec. 4, 2018 - KK lost her cell phone and purchased a replacement Samsung device. (same day LE seized PF’s cell phone.
• Dec. 4, 2018 - LE seized PF’s cell Phone

LINKS:
Colorado Judicial Branch Docket Search: Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search
Teller County Jail Lookup: Archonix XJail Public
4th District Cases of Interest: Colorado Judicial Branch - 4th Judicial District - Homepage
People of CO v. PF: Colorado Judicial Branch
People v. KLK: Colorado Judicial Branch
Custody Docket: Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search
Case#: D602018JV26
Year = 2018
Case Class = JV
Case Sequence = 26

Amended Civil Action Complaint: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Amended+complaint+vs+Patrick+Frazee.pdf

Sam Kraemer Twitter: Sam Kraemer (@SamKraemerTV) | Twitter
Clayton Sandell Twitter: Clayton Sandell (@Clayton_Sandell) | Twitter
Kayna Whitworth Twitter: @KaynaWhitworth
Becky Perlow Twitter: @gobeckygo
Carol McKinley Twitter: @CarolAMcKinley
Emily Shapiro Twitter: @EmilyShapiroABC
Lance Benzel Twitter: Lance Benzel (@lancebenzel) | Twitter
KB Twitter Search: kelsey berreth - Twitter Search

 

[k-mac]

KK, just for starters.

She may not be happy with some of her life right now but make no mistake, there is much glee and laughter at her perceived brilliance in duping on certain parts. I as someone said above think money would have been better spent searching the gorge and dumpsters and other KK stops, for a body or even remains from a fire that did not burn long enough imo.

I mean really, she could not be caught with remains and allegedly refuses to take them but she takes the gun, the phone, those other major things that would tie her to KB and her murder...

If there is one thing that cannot be argued successfully, it is that a multitude of people are extremely unhappy with the deal LE gave her and quite honestly, why wouldn't they be? Look at her involvement. She was allegedly advised to go to LE long before. She is as guilty for KB's death as he is and will receive a slap on the hand, if that.

Perhaps instead of caving to such a deal they should have thrown her in a jail cell for a bit for lying and obstruction while negotiating a stronger than 18 month possible sentence... Or three years possibly as if people should be tickled to hear that possibly it could be up to three whole full years, well wow, and we should be happy with that??

Something says to me KK in a jail cell and isolated without makeup, etc. for her court appearance, would not be happy and would be dealing faster just to get out. PF probably handles it better, not a compliment, just more of a solitary type... KK craves attention, until that attention is negative. It is killing her right now to not be out and about with some new drama imo.

Not an argument, just my own opinion and observations and the occasional vent.

It would have been so much better for them to find her, as they did, and then play them back and forth at each other and get them both.

She is and will remain imo a liability. Clearcut case of fiance killing KB without her as a possible other perp. I remain hopeful they have more than we know to close that door with all the jurors...

And that she goes away for a long time as well over something at some point...

I can still dream anyhow...

lets not forget where LE found her.
reno or vegas or somewhere there within partying up a storm.
SMUG...….CONFIDENT.....DEFIANT....DECEITFUL

moo

 

[susiQ]

KK, just for starters.

She may not be happy with some of her life right now but make no mistake, there is much glee and laughter at her perceived brilliance in duping on certain parts. I as someone said above think money would have been better spent searching the gorge and dumpsters and other KK stops, for a body or even remains from a fire that did not burn long enough imo.

I mean really, she could not be caught with remains and allegedly refuses to take them but she takes the gun, the phone, those other major things that would tie her to KB and her murder...

If there is one thing that cannot be argued successfully, it is that a multitude of people are extremely unhappy with the deal LE gave her and quite honestly, why wouldn't they be? Look at her involvement. She was allegedly advised to go to LE long before. She is as guilty for KB's death as he is and will receive a slap on the hand, if that.

Perhaps instead of caving to such a deal they should have thrown her in a jail cell for a bit for lying and obstruction while negotiating a stronger than 18 month possible sentence... Or three years possibly as if people should be tickled to hear that possibly it could be up to three whole full years, well wow, and we should be happy with that??

Something says to me KK in a jail cell and isolated without makeup, etc. for her court appearance, would not be happy and would be dealing faster just to get out. PF probably handles it better, not a compliment, just more of a solitary type... KK craves attention, until that attention is negative. It is killing her right now to not be out and about with some new drama imo.

Not an argument, just my own opinion and observations and the occasional vent.

It would have been so much better for them to find her, as they did, and then play them back and forth at each other and get them both.

She is and will remain imo a liability. Clearcut case of fiance killing KB without her as a possible other perp. I remain hopeful they have more than we know to close that door with all the jurors...

And that she goes away for a long time as well over something at some point...

I can still dream anyhow...

I understand your frustration, ilovechili. I think we all feel it to some degree. However, I don't think things would be this far along if the DA did it your way, with all respect. You'd have LE/DA trying to decipher the sequence of events (phone pings/texts/calls/video) covering weeks considering when the first attempts at KB's life began. They'd suspect both were involved but be unable to prove to what extent, and who shared the higher level of culpability. I agree, KK is not getting what she deserves by a long shot and although she may not have given LE the sweater, candles, tooth et al., she provided context to those events and locations to search that proved without a doubt that KB was indeed dead and at the hands of her lover, the despicable PF. PF & KK. A well matched pair those two. Has she lied about certain things? I have no doubt, in an attempt to make herself look just a little bit less despicable than she truly is, if that's even possible? I just don't think the things she's lied about are going to change the fact that PF wielded the bat that killed KB. The level of her undeniable willingness to participate may be divulged for all to gasp at. I won't be surprised if the solicitation charges are dropped at some point but that doesn't change the fact that PF did it and he's going to the slammer, for the rest of his miserable life for doing that. When push came to shove, KK didn't have the stomach to actually follow through, but had no problem cleaning up the mess and trying to protect his alibi and that won't be lost on jurors. (hoping for mensa types ) She also knew what she could be looking at in terms of jail time and made the decision so save her a$$, whether we agree or not. The DA was willing to let her do that in return for putting PF where he needed to be and FAST. He still had baby K and I very strongly believe the morning they came for him, MA F and PF were taking her somewhere and they were likely tipped off by, oh I don't know

Yes, she's one sick puppy. Does she deserve to rot in jail? Yes, by all means. I hate it when deals are made with devils especially one as involved as KK. I do not for one moment believe KK was solicited, she was a willing participant/co-conspirator on all counts, UNLESS, texts absolutely prove it was solicitation, I don't buy it. This was a pact made in hell, IMO. She's in for the "ride" of her life come trial and it will mark her for the rest of her living days. I have to trust DA May knows exactly what he's doing. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Love Never Fails]

That would be nice, as it would offer hope. But I don’t think that optimism is rooted in fact here.

PF killed Kelsey, stored her body, retrieved it, burned it, and then did God knows what with her remains.

If he did have help, there would be a phone call on the morning of the 25th. No contact with our friend, then I think it’s likely he did it alone.

I don’t think he waited that long though, or that it was necessary.

I hope law enforcement turned the screws on him, just in case.

Despite KKs testimony, I am not convinced PF stored KBs body until KK was there to see him burn it. I believe he killed her on the 22nd and disposed of her body the same evening and left the crime scene for KK to clean up.

It’s possible he figured KK would make that long trip after work on the 22nd to finish her part of the job. So the bloody crime scene was left as is until she arrived on the 24th and I am sure he was unhappy about that. Him asking KK to dispose of the body, I don’t believe. He had taken care of it by then. And I do think his buddy helped him.

I think it was his plan to make KK feel she was up to her neck in the murder. Make her feel guilty and keep her mouth shut. And I do think he asked her to dispose of the small items, purse, phone and gun, while he burned other things.

PF may be a dumb criminal but he did involve others as much as he could, out of their sense of loyalty to him. KK was in love (heat) with him and his buddy felt like a father to him. I am certain in my heart that he told his buddy he saw KB harming his child and he lost it, killed her and had to get rid of her. I believe his buddy agreed to help him. Hence the calls and travels there on the 22nd.

And regardless of how fatherly and loyal his buddy feels, it will be quite a shock to him when the DA proves PF planned her murder for months.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Despite KKs testimony, I am not convinced PF stored KBs body until KK was there to see him burn it. I believe he killed her on the 22nd and disposed of her body the same evening and left the crime scene for KK to clean up.

It’s possible he figured KK would make that long trip after work on the 22nd to finish her part of the job. So the bloody crime scene was left as is until she arrived on the 24th and I am sure he was unhappy about that. Him asking KK to dispose of the body, I don’t believe. He had taken care of it by then. And I do think his buddy helped him.

I think it was his plan to make KK feel she was up to her neck in the murder. Make her feel guilty and keep her mouth shut. And I do think he asked her to dispose of the small items, purse, phone and gun, while he burned other things.

I think you might be right that he didn't actually ask KK to take the body with her. He might have said it in a joking manner, "what, you don't want to take her with you? Come on, you should!" which she turned into her story of him making a legitimate direct request.

I think in general we who are trying to sleuth with only partial information, tend to greatly underestimate the factor of people misinterpreting each other, or of saying something vague or joking that doesn't actually mean what its words mean. Once the words are laid out in ink in a deposition or statement, all conversational context or tone of voice removed, they tend to look more directly meaningful and blatant than they were when spoken in situ.

I suppose it's also possible that, if he did ask her directly to take the body, that he had already disposed of the body but it might be/have been somewhere retrievable, ie buried and could be dug up. I don't think that's likely but it's one possible scenario.

 

[susiQ]

PF may be a dumb criminal but he did involve others as much as he could, out of their sense of loyalty to him. KK was in love (heat) with him and his buddy felt like a father to him. I am certain in my heart that he told his buddy he saw KB harming his child and he lost it, killed her and had to get rid of her. I believe his buddy agreed to help him. Hence the calls and travels there on the 22nd.

And regardless of how fatherly and loyal his buddy feels, it will be quite a shock to him when the DA proves PF planned her murder for months.

SFFBM
If in fact, it transpired as you believe with his "father figure", RS being complicit in the disposal and cover-up of KB's murder, wouldn't RS have been arrested by now?

 

[MassGuy]

I am sure the blood evidence is KB's, probably without a doubt. I do not know exactly what that says about PF. KK places herself in the home and video places PF in the home. Do they have PF blood mingled with KB's, the murder weapon, the tooth, the sweater, a candle, etc.?

As for the discolored hay, did they get blood and DNA from it? Again KK places herself there. Since she covers herself throughout having never seen the body, well then we do not know that there was ever a body on a hay bale, in a tote, or in the fire.

She has provided nothing other than a story, not one physical piece of evidence and in her entire story, every bit of it, she has such knowledge she sounds like a firsthand witness to it.

All I have to say is they had better be able to account for every minute of her time before and after. Video ideally and more.

Because there are two people with motives here and two people intricately (and intimately!) involved. I in no way think he is innocent but neither is she.

I do not like playing devil's advocate, I want them both going away but I do not like the case as it stands right now from what we know. Maybe I will be amazed at a slam dunk one sided trial with all of the evidence not known. She may not be the one on trial but when she hits that witness stand, she will basically be on trial by the defense.

Again, not one bit of physical evidence was gained from the deal with her.

I also am not so sure who corroborated whose account.

I have said it before and will again, they would have a better case without her. With her, there are two people who wanted her dead. Without her, PF would be the obvious one.

We do not have to agree. I hope to no end that he goes down but I will never let go of my belief that she should be going down as well. I do not care who pulled the proverbial trigger so to speak or swung the bat. She is dead because of the TWO of them. Either could have stopped it, both wanted it and both tried to do it.

imvho.

I don’t understand all this effort to turn KK into a killer. He’s the one charged with murder, and all indications are that she was two days late to the party.

There is a ton of evidence here, much of it clarified by KK. The lack of a body not withstanding, it’s not normal to have a case with this much evidence.

What she has already supplied, and what what she will testify to, are both incredibly important.

I’ve never heard of a case getting stronger with less evidence. Blood under the floorboards, and blood splatter on the fireplace, is important.

The corroborating physical evidence is important.

Because of her, and only because of her, we know how this all went down.

The nice thing is, we don’t have to simply take her word for it, atleast for most of it.

The cell phones do that (KK’s, PF’s, KB’s).

The corroborating physical evidence does that (blood, discoloration, accelerant, plastic balls).

PF’s own lies do that (when he last saw Kelsey, rehab, etc).

 

[GordianKnot]

It’s so small that I think it’s unlikely.

You’re talking about a couple thousand people from all across the country.

People who think that the Feds are going to feel some pressure to step in and take the ball from the state.

If the time exists for this sort of thing, it’s after the trial is over, not now.

I think it’s pointless anyways, atleast in regards to achieving their stated goal.

BBM:

I'll take it even further:

It's not just the petition that in practical terms is pointless.
I think the amount of focus being directed at KK, KK's actions or inactions, what KK knew and when she knew it, how evil KK is or is not vis-a-via PF, how KK is just as culpable for the murder of KB, etc., is also pointless.

Who swung the bat?

The goal is justice for KB, which in this case will be achieved in one way and one way only:
PF being convicted and punished to the max extent possible under the law for her murder.

In practical terms, it doesn't matter how people feel about KK.
Feelings aren't facts.
Fact of the matter is, KK struck a deal.
It's a done deal with the DA as far as KK is concerned.

DA May made the correct determination that PF needs to be made to pay for his vicious, violent extinguishing of KB's light. The DA paid a steep price in the form of the sweetie beauty of a deal he struck with KK, but he made that deal because he recognized that he had to make PF pay for his evil actions, no matter the cost.

We can continue to spin our wheels endlessly round and round regarding KK.
Understandably, people need a release valve at times.
Ranting and venting will likely continue until the trial and well after it's concluded, in fact.
Ranting and venting about KK, however, does not and will not advance the cause of achieving justice for KB at this point.

In fact, it may be harmful to that cause, inasmuch as it really shifts the focus and, whether intentionally or unintentionally, takes the onus of responsibility off of PF.
I'm sure PF loves all the negative attention being focused on KK.

(Who swung the bat, again?)

I ain't interested in playing "devil's advocate" in this case.
PF already has an attorney. So there's that.

PF is the one who has been charged with the murder of KB.
Oh! Which reminds me:

PF swung the bat. Repeatedly.
Knocking KB's teeth out.
Splattering KB's lifeblood everywhere.
It was a gruesome, horrific scene.
KB's suffering must have been tremendous.

PF is an evil monster.
Go get him, Dan.
You go get this monster.
Bring justice for Kelsey.

JMO.

 

[crhedBngr]

Yeah, it’s a change.org petition. Anyone can sign it, and you don’t have to be a Colorado resident.

Thanks for that. Signed it.

Justice for Kelsey.

 

[MassGuy]

There were pings near RS place on the night of the 22nd and several times thereafter, RS also went and picked up the package at KB condo , he told PF to stay in the car so he would not be on video . Lots of pings back n forth to his area and the Nash ranch.
He may be untouchable due to his clout around town, but I sure would be bringing him in for quite a grilling, and also ask him if he minded LE borrowing his phone for a day or two.

No one is untouchable, not with state and Federal investigators involved in this case.

I think we will be hearing more about him, and from him, at trial.

My hope is that I’d he did help PF in some way, that there is evidence to compel his cooperation.