Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. StarEyes

    StarEyes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    860
    Likes Received:
    5,864
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thank you for the clarification and information. When I went up on 2 wheels, I hit a sharp turn from pavement to pure gravel. I was going at least 70. Needless to say, I never did that again. It completely flipped this SUPER heavy toolbox full of heavy tools in the trunk of the car. I was lucky it didn’t roll. Things we do when we’re young. Lol I’d be more apt to agree about the granite on the roads. Very dangerous.
     
  2. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,584
    Likes Received:
    21,873
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Understood, but Paul Harvey wants to know the rest of the story on what the poster that did this originally thinks.

    Are they convinced/ have reason to believe based on evidence that somebody followed PF at the same time as the murders, and do they think that that person was involved in the murders and/ or was summoned and/or was in waiting at the condo immediately after the murder and followed him?

    Is this Theory a support of KKL was there at the time of the murder? Or another person who is close to him?

    Perhaps what the defense will say?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  3. Dave F.

    Dave F. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    658
    Likes Received:
    4,788
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I can't answer that question. Certainly I have a guess, like any human being would; but there is nowhere near enough data to prove it and it's not my place to try to outguess LE. It's LE's job to prove their theory. IMO
     
  4. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,584
    Likes Received:
    21,873
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Understood, that is why I was asking what the original poster @SandyQLS ( and thank you for giving your input! ) thought was an alternative Theory.

    Appreciate any and all inputs as to Alternative theories.
     
  5. SandyQLS

    SandyQLS may your life be filled with armadillos

    Messages:
    1,833
    Likes Received:
    7,570
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't agree with your statement here at all. This is a murder trial and vague statements are inadequate:

    "That’s how you get that arc that shows that approximately that cell phone is, you know, a mile, a mile-and-a-half away from that tower,” Pfoff said.

    The search warrants are replete with this same vague language "likely" "at or near" and so on.

    I do not consider your post to be logic but rather illogic. PF and KB phones are never shown to be together, traveling or otherwise. <modsnipped unnecessary comment>

    Verizon timestamps are accurate, and Verizon distance to tower to one-tenth of a mile is accurate. The SW demands a suspension of reality that PF traveled 90mph for 1.2 miles in 48 seconds per that graphic and text in SW18-112 page15. If you think that's not correct, then do determine a rate of travel for that event discussed, and keep us all informed, thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2019
    ajaylee, ilovechili and gliving like this.
  6. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,584
    Likes Received:
    21,873
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I have looked at and read both of your postings, and I think both of you are saying the same thing. And that you both agree they are going towards his house. One of you is going further, but I think you both agree on that. It is not near her house it has changed to another Tower.

    At least I think everybody agrees on that, her phone did move towards his house and was not at her house.

    Law enforcement only said they were traveling in the same direction. Law enforcement said nothing about how far they were from each other, ( only a media has inferred such and stated such which is being discussed here) they were only using that information to say that they both were away from her home at that time and more towards HIS house. Myself, I don't want to sit here on this thread and discuss media and its misinterpretation, but that's just me.

    Law enforcement never said what the sensitivity or specificity of that was, and how it mattered. It was only to show that it was on a different Tower near his house. That's all I have gathered from it and I am not going to even consider calculating how fast they were going at that time.

    I have no horse in this game and am not interested in going there.

    We will have to wait for the trial to find out more? The defense will also use this information and the defense to say that somebody was following him?

    But that goes to consider one more thing, will the defense say that somebody else killed her, and just happened to follow him home? Or are they going to say that she was alive?

    My guess is we will see the defense throw up information on social media to see what sticks?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2019
  7. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

    Messages:
    10,062
    Likes Received:
    173,855
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So the FBI expert got it wrong, the investigators who saw this information got it wrong, the defense missed it at the probable cause hearing, the expert consulted by the media got it wrong, and you have it right.

    Got it.

    This is one specific period of time over two days. If there is an error there, big deal.

    There’s a mountain of digital data that shows that Kelsey and PF’s phones were together over that two day period.

    The ghost of Kelsey was not hovering around with her cell phone, in close proximity to PF’s phone.

    To believe that this is some sort of coincidence, is inherently illogical.

    PF lied about when he last saw Kelsey.

    When he left that house, her phone immediately began doing all sorts of bizarre things, things that continued over the next two days.

    Their phones left her house at the same time.

    Dead people don’t send texts.

    Dead people don’t make phone calls.

    Her phone should have been no where near his, and certainly not interacting with the same tower.

    It was though. Because PF bashed Kelsey’s face in, and tried to fool everyone.

    I’m not fooled.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2019
    MrsM, Sweetsbeach, CalmSeas and 41 others like this.
  8. 24Brix

    24Brix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    600
    Trophy Points:
    83
    RSBMFF

    There is more to the calculation than meets the eye. The 90 mph result might be valid if the pings of the two phones were synchronized. But they’re not, they’re based on algorithms within the phone.

    So, for a general example, if the phone is active on the network, at the very minimum the ping is timer-based, pinging every hour (let’s say) to determine the tower with the strongest signal at that moment. But pings will also occur due to app activity — a call or text inbound or outbound or an app refresh in the foreground or background. The phones could be traveling together in a shoebox and still show a time/space differential depending on what’s happening with the phone’s internals.

    In this day and age there is no such thing as “proof-positive” short of multiple eye-witness accounts...maybe. Even video could, in theory, be faked, no matter how unlikely that is. What matters is, is there is enough evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt?

    While it can’t be proven, it’s not unreasonable to presume the phones were together based on the information available. And that alone would not be enough to convict, I’m sure. But it IS another brick in the wall.

    Which reminds me, the fact that defense wanted to wait to view all test results, etc., indicates to me that there is at least a non-zero chance the PF could choose to try to negotiate his own plea deal based on the results. I don’t think it would make sense for them to try to shift blame to KK or anyone else if he weren’t willing to take the stand as a part of that strategy. And that would be a very bad idea IMO.

    As always, everything above is MOO...
     
  9. ajaylee

    ajaylee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I agree. In particular, I think the defense wanted to wait on the results, if any, of the landfill search. Now that the search has ended, the defense has a clear picture of what evidence the state has and can start discussing any possible plea deal.

    I don't know about Colorado, but I believe I've seen sentences that read: '40 years, must serve 25 years before eligible for parole'. The death penalty is still legal in Colorado, but I've read that it's under fire, so presumably if the DA decided to offer to take the death penalty off the table, PF's defense would tell him not to take it.

    I don't think the DA should offer anything that doesn't include PF telling them where the remains are and the remains actually being found there - because I wouldn't put it past PF to lie and tell them the remains were completely destroyed when they weren't. No body, no deal.

    The other big issue: Baby K. Could the DA offer a deal that included PF agreeing to immediately surrender all parental rights and to refrain from ever trying to contact Baby K or anyone in her family, directly or indirectly?
     
  10. ilovechili

    ilovechili Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,455
    Likes Received:
    24,851
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is just my opinion but offering an incentive/plea deal in exchange for (even if it is just part of the deal) his terminating parental rights is not wise as it could be looked at as not "voluntary". I am no attorney and perhaps one could weigh in. Courts can terminate rights with cause, otherwise it can be voluntary in some instances but I suspect if he gets an incentive (plea) for doing so that he does not get (plea) if he does not do so, it really is not entirely voluntary but for an incentive and clearly is not related solely to only reasons for giving up the child.

    Just in a layperson's opinion also is my thought that it sounds much like selling your child because again, there is an incentive. Just as there are laws against paying for a baby to adopt or getting paid to give your child to someone, I would doubt prosecutors would do such a thing or perhaps even be able to do so.

    I, however, love the idea as no one wants to see this child near him ever nor wants him having any say in her life; I simply suspect it is not something that could be specified as part of a deal.

    I suspect it may not be specifically against the law but could cause some real issues that could arise. I could be wrong and would welcome the answer to that by an expert.

    Again, his rights terminated is something I would like to see as much as the next person.

    omo.
     
  11. MemPat

    MemPat The EARTH without ART is just EH.

    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    10,851
    Trophy Points:
    113
  12. GordianKnot

    GordianKnot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    22,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep, some interesting parallels, for sure, although it sounds like in this Sullivan case the ex has already been charged with capital murder along w/ the husband, and appears to have had a direct, active hand in the kidnapping and murder of the current wife.

    So, the side piece in this other case may not get to play "Let's Make a Deal" with the DA.
    Hopefully, she won't be getting any sweetie beauty deal like KK.

    JMO.
     
  13. Kapua

    Kapua Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,519
    Likes Received:
    16,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The landfill search has ENDED? Looks like I missed a lot. ETA, I just went to the media thread and found the articles confirming that. I think the prosecution will get a conviction regardless. MOO
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  14. girlhasnoname

    girlhasnoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    19,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah K, it was a disappointment but I think DA May will get a guilty verdict based on the totality of the information they already have.

    I personally wanted the Berreth family to be able to lay Kelsey to rest properly, but I don't believe we will ever know what PF actually did with her remains. :(
     
    StarEyes, susiQ, ab01 and 10 others like this.
  15. Tippy Lynn

    Tippy Lynn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,043
    Likes Received:
    21,755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Woodland Park Police concluded their search of the Midway Landfill on April 17th.
     
  16. Kapua

    Kapua Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,519
    Likes Received:
    16,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    At the risk of stating the obvious, either KB's remains are in the landfill but in a location other than the one searched, or she is in another location entirely. And I agree with you; I don't think we will ever know. I'm again sad for the Berreths, and sorry that the search was fruitless, but they said from the beginning that they were looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  17. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

    Messages:
    10,062
    Likes Received:
    173,855
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, wherever she is, there’s next to no chance of her being found.

    I do think she’s in the landfill, but it doesn’t really make much of a difference either way.

    Of course the Berreth’s would disagree, as no one wants to imagine that their daughter’s final resting place is a pile of trash.

    It would have been nice to find her though.
     
    MrsM, StarEyes, Sunny123 and 20 others like this.
  18. Kapua

    Kapua Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,519
    Likes Received:
    16,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    JMHO, and y'all feel free to respectfully disagree with me, but I would not consider having a very serious felony charge on my record for the rest of my life a "sweetie beauty deal". But that's me. MOO
     
  19. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

    Messages:
    10,062
    Likes Received:
    173,855
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, but she should be in prison, losing decades of her life.

    A black mark is good, but it doesn’t quite compare.
     
  20. Kapua

    Kapua Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,519
    Likes Received:
    16,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree that she deserves to do some real time for her heinous crimes. However, IMHO, the State will be getting some extremely powerful testimony in exchange for her reduced sentence - ETA and felony charge.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
    sassyblue, susiQ, ab01 and 6 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice