Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #53 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.

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  1. Mimi in London

    Mimi in London Well-Known Member

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    Assuming he’s pleading not guilty, I wonder what PF is telling his lawyers. What are the options?
    1. Minimal info (do they then have to create an alternative scenario where someone else might plausibly have done it?)
    2. KK did it against his wishes (as she was so concerned about what a bad person Kelsey was), and he was just about to do the right thing/rat her out, when he was arrested.
    3. That KK must have done it, she was so jealous of Kelsey.
    4. As far as he is concerned, Kelsey is still just missing. She’s run off with some guy and abandoned her daughter. Blood? What blood? She must’ve cut herself packing.
    Oh, to be a fly on the wall in these meetings.
     
  2. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    If he’s smart, he’ll tell his lawyers everything (if they even ask him if he did it).

    You can’t prepare an adequate defense, unless you know all the facts.

    The only approach that I can see, is for PF to blame this on KK.

    The problem he is going to have is twofold:

    Putting KK there at the time.

    Explaining away his lies to multiple people, his own cell phone activity, his return to Kelsey’s house, and the physical evidence.

    They have to find a way to unlink him from this.

    I wish them all the luck in the world.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  3. Mimi in London

    Mimi in London Well-Known Member

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    Tell them everything? I don’t know enough about defense law. Wouldn’t that put them in a tricky position, professionally?
     
  4. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    No. The defense attorney simply cannot lie to the jury by stating that the defendant didn’t do something that he did do.

    This article explains it better than I can.

    Representing a Client the Lawyer Thinks Is Guilty
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  5. Mimi in London

    Mimi in London Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! Now I get it!
     
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  6. Dave F.

    Dave F. Well-Known Member

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    Of equal importance to the ethics of legal defense is the defined mission of the Colorado Public Defender:
    ".........to defend and protect the rights, liberties, and dignity of those accused of crimes who cannot afford to retain counsel. We do so by providing constitutionally and statutorily mandated representation that is effective, zealous, inspired and compassionate."
    Office of the Colorado State Public Defender
     
  7. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    A lot of defense attorneys will never ask the question, because it hurts them (in that it closes doors).

    Thinking about it now, I’m confident that his attorneys will not ask, nor will he offer it.
     
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  8. Mimi in London

    Mimi in London Well-Known Member

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    That is one laborious game to play.

    PF: “I didn’t go to my friend’s ranch.”
    His attorney; “Are you sure, because there are cameras on the road that may have captured your image.”
    PF: “Oh. Right, Maybe I did go there to pick up something I left behind a week earlier.”
    Attorney: “Good, well remembered.”

    Exhausting for both parties, no?
     
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  9. ilovechili

    ilovechili Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip>

    She is more familiar with the people and area than KB ever probably was. I thought that was well established some time back including the fact that she has more family in Colorado than in Idaho? That is my recall anyhow.

    I for one do not believe she was given every minute detail about the murder by PF but then was not given detail of the exact disposal location. Seems a bit farfetched to me and kind of out there for her to expect people to believe that or that people buy that as gospel truth from KK.

    I also do not believe the thought that PF took KB's body to Thanksgiving dinner at ma's in his truck, ate turkey with no one the wiser, then took her to Nash after turkey dinner, was he not gone for hours on end... Per the search warrant info? And then turned around and brought her back to ma's a day or two later to burn her with mom and baby at home and KK as well... Say what???

    Neither makes much sense. However, nothing does in this crazy loony tune Hollywood made for tv story that even Hollywood, if smart, would refuse as too crazy to believe or touch. If it is true both of these two should be off of the street for good immediately. KK and PF have made such dramas in the Hollywood arena seem sane compared to this. Poor KB walked into a crazy lair, poor girl. Thank God her child is not there!

    In KK's story, more or less every bit of evidence went missing with no way to recover it. Other than KB's gun... Burner phones, keys, hazmat suit (ha), pizza boxes (joke), KB's phone, her own phone, the body... Hmm. Oh, location/google... Baseball bats, cleaning supplies, iron rods... Whether his or hers... All cleaned, all burned in plastic totes, and all in a gorge for both of them or burned in her back yard.... Sweaters, teeth, cleaning wipes, the kitchen curtain, etc. Where the H are the cinnamon rolls? Oops let's not forget hospital disposal... She has so very much detail except for where KB's remains are but even with the detail she gives, nothing much recoverable or so it appears thus far, or found. She cleaned in short order a bloody mess and the body was burned in short order too. Just hours. Wow. KK could give lessons to murderers on crime scene clean-up and PF on how to burn a body down to nothing to those that have tried or want to more quickly than it worked for them. Just wow.

    I thought the simpler the more likely the answer in a crime most advise, not this Hollywood crazy drama type TV movie stuff. Yet KK expects this crazy story to be accepted hook, line and sinker... Sorry, I do not buy it. Oh there may be bits of truth... Or some plastic balls from one tote or another...

    I doubt the prosecution is really happy with what they are stuck with or this case but that is jmo.

    I do not like it much when one of a murdering duo does not have to do her time. Two convictions is what this should have been, and not for "tampering". And no, I am not one that thinks PF is innocent in any way whatsoever.

    I shudder when I think what was planned by KK had KB called her to arrange a play date with KK and children... Did KK have a child who would be close in age to Baby K? For some reason, I thought her children were school aged and Baby K was not even one year yet at that time was she? Would she have pulled children out of school and drove tons of miles for a play date at a dangerous rate of speed from Idaho if KB called one day and said how about that play date you mentioned, I am free later this afternoon, I do not have many friends here? Would she have used her own vehicle then or a rental or a friend's or a boat? I mean her story is pretty far fetched, I could see a boat... Baby present as well with KB at a play date with a stalker crazy woman but she will likely bring coffee or a weapon to the play date... What was this...

    PF is guilty, so is she. KB is dead. Her body is missing. The baby has no mother. I have seen people get more time on a traffic violation than KK will likely receive for her part in KB's death.

    Omo. jmvho.

    ETA: Plastic balls...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2019
  10. Love Never Fails

    Love Never Fails Well-Known Member

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    I love chili,
    You are correct. This case is one big mess. To buy the story as is, you have to put some blinders on. I’m looking forward to someone doing some more investigating, whether it’s prosecution or defense. KKL will get away with the crime. No doubt. PF may or may not spend life in prison, depending on whether the jury buys her story. That’s my problem: her story.

    We realize she is a liar. We realize she could have stopped the murder. We realize she got away with it. Done.

    <modsnip>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2019
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  11. MemPat

    MemPat The EARTH without ART is just EH.

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    Once you get past the fact that PF could have just poisoned KB's food on Thanksgiving instead of messily bashing her head with a bat in her home and leading people to believe she ran off and killed herself, you can't really expect that anything was well thought out by this pair.

    You just have to accept that LE has established that parts of KK's story line up with the physical evidence enough to keep him in jail until trial.

    They also had to have enough evidence independent of KK's words to convince her and her attorney to plead.

    It's hard for me to understand anyone questioning how this is going to turn out.

    KK's life is going to be terrible with no hope of
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2019
  12. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    I haven’t heard a single person say anything other than KK is a disgusting human being, who deserves to pay the full price for what she did.

    She is vile.

    No one supports her, and no one will.

    But I haven’t seen a single shred of evidence that she killed Kelsey.

    I’ve seen plenty from PF’s direction, especially the evidence that he directly supplied.

    The theoretical existence of evidence, is not evidence. And that’s exactly what the evidence against KK is.
     
  13. ilovechili

    ilovechili Well-Known Member

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    I have no horse in this race. I am very pro LE and very pro prosecution in every case but that does not mean one cannot call it like they see it, that every case is not perfect.

    The prosecution has the burden of proof. This case in my non-expert opinion they have at least two burdens. The burden of proof and the burden of KK. I could go on about the burden of no body, etc. but two burdens for sure. They know it too from what I understand.

    Hopefully she does not mess things up so much that he walks. People are upset enough about her.
     
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  14. ilovechili

    ilovechili Well-Known Member

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    The prosecution has the burden of proof.

    I NEVER ever said she killed Kelsey. I have consistently said that PF is guilty and that they BOTH are. Where does that come from?

    <modsnip>

    #1.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2019
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  15. tmar

    tmar Well-Known Member

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    We were shocked when we heard of KK's involvement.:eek:
    Perhaps further shocking evidence to come regarding PF.
    Let us see what else, KK states.
    MOO.
     
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  16. tmar

    tmar Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping, others will also be charged, for their involvement.:):):)
    Perhaps PF will not implicate anyone else, to keep them on his side, but evidence will clear this.
    Then we have KK.
    MOO.
     
  17. GordianKnot

    GordianKnot Well-Known Member

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    Right.

    <modsnip>

    Nobody likes KK here.
    Nobody here is interested in defending KK's actions, or inactions, r/t KB's murder.
    Everybody here thinks KK is a terrible, awful, vile, hideous, despicable creature.

    KK ain't winning any popularity contests on this here thread. Period.

    Having said that, PF murdered KB.

    Repeating for emphasis:

    PF murdered KB.
    Violently and gruesomely.
    With a baseball bat.

    PF is going on trial for the murder of KB.
    Not KK.
    Because PF is the one who swung the bat.
    At KB's head.

    To the extent that the focus of blame is shifted onto KK (the non-wielder of the bat),
    it's not only unproductive in terms of helping to achieve a successful conviction in PF's case:
    Frankly, it's counter-productive.

    PF needs to be held fully accountable for this brutal murder.
    He's all too used to having the women in his life take responsibility for him.
    This is what he does. Get women to take responsibility.
    Others may fall for it.
    I ain't gonna'.

    Continuing to make KK the focus of blame harms the prosecution's efforts to hold PF to account.
    I'm not interested in helping the defense by trying to concoct scenarios where KK is the guilty party.

    PF is the one going on trial.
    KK is the one who made a deal.

    Them's just the facts.

    JMO.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2019
  18. ab01

    ab01 "What is done in the dark always comes to light"

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    Part of the problem is that Prosecutors have much evidence that investigators found linking pf bc of what kk told them and directed them to. That will give her credibility with a jury.

    You add in all the dumb and deceitful things that pf did on his own accord and the case becomes much clearer.

    Kk will be very well coached on how to present her answers at trial and to stick to the hard facts of the case.

    It’s not near as much of a toss up case like many choose to see it as. PF did way too much damage to his own story for that to be the case.

    One untruth by a defendant, maybe can be overlooked by a jury. But in this case you have multiple lies told by PF, many that are very easily disproved.

    Jmo
     
  19. ab01

    ab01 "What is done in the dark always comes to light"

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    Also something that I’ve been chewing on for a while

    I think part of the reason that PF chose the method of death that he did had to do with the fact that he was also angry at kk.

    For whatever reason(I think we will find out at trial) PF was desperate to get rid of kB as soon as possible.

    KK kept backing out and I believe this angered PF who was she to defy him and what he wanted.

    I think reasonable hard for LE to figure out type of murder got replaced with anger and rage.

    I think the message to kk was one of you better get your ass up here and clean this **** up

    Not trying to diminish kk involvement for her part at all

    But I am absolutely convinced PF was pulling the strings.

    As he has his entire life

    Jmo
     
  20. MyBelle

    MyBelle Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you.

    I don't believe PF is innocent. I wish the prosecutor luck in proving his guilt. I do believe the Prosecutor is going to have a very difficult time getting a conviction because the defense will sow considerable reasonable doubt because of KK's own words, actions and lies to the FBI.

    What kind of human being would know about a planned murder of a young mother and do nothing to warn her or authorities? What kind of human being would listen to accusations of child abuse of a baby--and evidently believe it must be true--yet not pick up the phone and call Colorado LE in order to protect the child?
    The jury will know KK returned to Idaho with her friend's gun missing a bullet and sent fraudulent interstate text messages using KB's phone. Where's the scented candle? The ball bat? The tooth? Kelsey? There is no way all 12 jurors will find KK credible.

    Will the cell phone evidence be enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that KB is dead and PF is responsible for her murder? I doubt it.

    JMO
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2019
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