Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.
Good night to all.
RIP Kelsey. You did not deserve this.
What specifically is your concern about the child custody battle?
Don't understand how it relates to lying to FBI, or impersonating KB by sending text messages.
I think he will plead not guilty. Unless it’s another Chris Watts and I don’t think so. He sure has a fight against him.
This is much appreciated.
IF it happened at all the way KK said. And that is a BIG IF.
I'm SO conflicted on this. My "bad" self wants him to plead "not guilty" because I'd like to see the RQ aka KK exposed. I believe she is so very guilty of much more than what she's letting on and formally charged with. I know, we ALL know that, but I have a feeling she is morally bankrupt and fully wanted KB dead for her own selfish reasons, she just didn't want to do it herself. On that count she is a miniscule bit smarter than PF. Oh, and I'd like to hear what Ma F has to say
Yet, if that creature PF had any conscience he should do the right thing and plead guilty to save KB's family the pain of living through a trial and wasting the county's resources. My better self thinks I should hope for this, and forget about KK. I can't imagine she has much of a life right now anyway, but even that ticks me off because KB has no life, literally. As well, if there is any justice at all, she will serve some time. I hope that's part of the plea deal, minimum 18 months. I'm probably dreamin', I know
I think we could all pretty much agree with you on all counts.
I’m just not persuaded that she didn’t do this herself. That may go against the grain here.
If PF committed the crime alone, it would be a fine day if he stood up and said so and took the sentence the judge hands down.
But in real life, they are both cowards. He will fight.
And she will go on with her life. She has lots of family in CO. She can reinvent herself. Not everyone knows about this crime or are they interested in her life. She is one fine specimen let me say. She either planned this crime or conspired to help PF commit the crime, no thought given to her children and their future. No thought given to her family’s reputation. Just jealousy and selfishness. And she has gotten away with whatever she did with a slap on the wrist, so to speak.
I am hoping that through the trial we will get to know KB better. KB has been lost here. Who was she? What were her dreams? We aren’t one hundred percent sure what happened to her. There is no body.
We pray for good evidence. But what we DO have is the word of a liar, a cheat, a conspirator and maybe the killer.
I will say this as far as thinking that kk has just been relaying a story of fantasy to investigators.
She had no way of knowing what investigators may already have known
It would have been extremely risky to Try to push a false narrative and jeopardize her own freedom. Especially after she signed her sweet beauty of a deal.
And I don’t believe the investigators would have bought it either.
One would have to believe that kk is some criminal mastermind, and this I’m sure of......that she is not
Belief that PF did swing a bat
We must agree to disagree on whether or not KK participated in the murder. Unless PF's defence attorney has some kind of "nuclear" bombshell to unload, I just can't take that leap with the evidence available to us at this point. Did she conspire? I believe absolutely. She was not an unwilling/fearful participant in this heinous crime. It was not just because PF told her lies about KB. She was jealous, pathologically so, IMHO. Of course, there could be other reasons as well? Looking forward to Friday, hoping there are NO MORE delays and we get to know if we'll be waiting around for months, possibly years, for a lengthy trial. All just MOO!
I mean I do think she's an accessory. I think she knew he was going to kill KB and she helped him get away with that. That's much more than tampering. But without a deal we wouldn't get him.
It's justice. Imperfect but it's justice.
Sometimes I feel people would rather let PF get away with murder than allow KK to strike this deal.
Yes. It's not a toss up at all. Because we can't place KK at the murder scene when logically we know KB was killed. She didn't arrive until a couple days later, on the 24th.
But we can place PF there, he lied about his whereabouts that day and after KB was last seen alive, her phone and his phone are in tandem, traveling with him.
You can't kill someone from two states over unless you pay another to do so.
Yah I absolutely get why we all want to place kk at KB’s on thanksgiving, heck I’d love nothing more to place her and PF both there!
But I feel that investigators have evidence that actually definitely places kk somewhere else
We may not all agree, but I can definitely see why one would want to try to see kk put right beside PF. Heck I want that too, but it’s just not rational, its only fantasy at this point , wishful thinking etc to think there is even a sliver of possibility of that to happen
PF was the driving force, that i absolutely will not waiver on
Yes and I think we tend to hold women more responsible for crimes than men, in a social sense. Because we can't accept that a woman, a mother would do such a thing, in the same manner we accept that men would.
So when there's evidence that a woman was involved, our outrage is greater because subconsciously we don't expect it.
I agree with you that KK conspired. I think one of the key pieces of evidence will be the adult teeth seized with the SW at the ranch and whether they are KB's. Is PF really that dumb (and sick) to keep his victim's DNA souvenirs at his house yet he was smart enough to know a cell-phone text message from another state would delay the investigation?
Hopefully, we'll know more Friday.
We won't know about the teeth on Friday, but I really don't think they're linked to KB. I know it's weird to keep adult molars but if they are clean and white, they don't belong to KB. Some dental surgeon gave them to the patient JMO
I get entirely what you mean here. It is about the victims and in no way do I feel right wishing for anything less than the family not going through more which would stop (to some extent anyhow) with a guilty plea, not that PF is likely to offer one up. Like with the JC case, it saves the victims from going through more which is what matters first and foremost, I know or would bet you agree with that, as do I.
I think with most of us it is just human nature. It is also still for the victims as well that we want answers and to see them have to answer. We do not wish PF to go free, I do not wish KK to be a detriment to the case, but unfortunately she is what she is, not the most likable "witness"... We know what she did, at least in part, that was horrible and we want answers (not just for ourselves but for the family) and we want them on the stand and having to answer and go through it and hopefully go through a little "h-e-double hockey sticks" as well for what they did. Unfortunately, we all know a defendant does not have to testify or I would want the same with PF, I would LOVE to see him grilled on the stand. And yes, I want to hear from SF as well. RL. SF2. All of it, I want answers, I have not judged the others but I want to hear their testimony of that day, etc. and more.
If it were not for the fact this is a tragedy with a very real victim, if we could separate the KB/PF soap opera and watch it without having real life victims like KB, her baby, her family, we would feel like we watched every episode of a series with these two bad villains who the show has us hating, wonder who else may or may not be involved, hope to find out in the episodes to come, watch it faithfully for the season (or in this case many seasons by the time it gets to trial probably) to the end trusting we would see and then bam, no final episode?! Ouch.
Yet if given one choice only and if we had a vote which of course we don't, we would vote for whatever the victim's family wants, or is best for them, or Kelsey would want--I know you would in a heartbeat you and so would I, as would most and we would choose that and let our final episode go unseen after waiting for it, easy choice.
I think it is also that they did something horrendous and they should have to face the public, answer and be put through at least something although not even close/no comparison at all to what they did to another human being, one he shared a child and a bed with no less, a car and possibly finances, etc., who knows the truth on that... We want answers which will not come from demented minds like this anyhow I suppose, that we would ever understand or that would make sense to us.
I do not doubt families in some cases feel that way as well. They may dread trial but if at the last minute after years of delays and upsets on top of their loss by the hand of others, they get a guilty plea resulting in no trial, then there is a void with a lack of answers... On one hand relief, on the other hand, a kind of "what now" because it was unexpected, and it has been years of it, even if agreed to.
I am just trying to say, and am not doing it very well at all, and with way too many words, that I think many feel this way and I feel it is human nature. I know I do.
Have I seen both your good self and bad self?? I know I have seen your good self...
This is why, I feel, most of us cannot let the KK part go--we do not want her to fail or be lying because we want her testimony to convict PF but we also want her to fail because we are not happy with what she did and what she is likely lying about with regard to her involvement and her "deal". For her, I want her to fall on her face and be caught in every lie. For putting PF away, I want her to not fail but I still want her to fail after he is convicted before she can even leave the courthouse! If she was facing even ten years, people still would very much not like it but I think it would stop some outrage, 15 even more, etc. One of the craziest stories I have ever heard and probably ever will is KK's story which is possibly partly PF's as well and maybe even partly true. If partly true though considering this overly dramatic mountain driving speed queen and her not so urban cowboy, Hollywood screenwriters have nothing on these two with farfetched... Getting a bit sideways so...
Just talking out loud, way too lengthy, however I do not comment here often.
All just my opinion.
iirc, they recovered five adult teeth in an envelope, which to me sounds like it was tied to dental surgery. It is the single tooth they found separately in another room that I'm wondering about.
This upcoming hearing was delayed so the defense could do forensic testing on evidence. KK said PF told her to look for a single tooth. How would PF know just a single tooth needed to be found? I have always found it an odd point KK emphasized to LE.
Did KK plant the tooth at the ranch in order to implicate PF because she knew the body wasn't at the landfill? If PF disposed of the body, he most certainly would have disposed of the tooth and not kept it as a souvenir.
I'm more inclined to think it was a single extraction due to overcrowding I don't think KK was trying to frame PF, after all she attempted to kill KB three times herself so she could spend the rest of her charmed life with that monster I wish I could find the green vomit emoji I have on my phone Just MOO
I agree. He’s about as incompetent a killer as there has ever been, but he wouldn’t have kept something that implicated him like that.
At some point he would have known that law enforcement was about to come knocking, and even if he had kept teeth, he would have had time to dispose of them.
Had KK kept a tooth and placed it there, she would have said so, as it would offer more credibility to her account.
What we still don't know is whether the monster wanted to spend the rest of his life with her.