Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.
Lol..if it helps I've heard dessert is two packaged cookies. ( ;
“One bought a beach house.” I do hope he or she is in jail!
I am hoping after the arraignment there is actually some news to discuss.
I am guessing PF pleads innocent and that will be it. Nothing more till trial.
That is my guess too that PF will plead innocent. He has nothing to lose and its really his only good defense option is to blame everything on KK.
The day KK plead guilty to the plea deal and pointed the finger at PF is the day PF's defense put KK square in their cross hairs to try to blame everything on her.
A classic he-said/she-said trial is shaping up.
I would not even be surprised if after PF has spent all these months in jail that he gets desperate and creative and we may even hear allegations from the defense against his own mother.
His defense goal will be to minimize any responsibility for him, and to shift it over to others. And there are only two good choices now on where to shift things. KK and his own Mom with KK being the main fall guy.
PF is an interesting character because he has managed to stay silent before, during, and after his arrest and that will be to his advantage as his defense begins to try to shift the blame to others.
Hopefully forensics, phone records, lab test results, and other concrete evidence will make it clear to the jury the level of PF's involvement.
The fact that PF is silent tells me we don’t know much about him at all, except for what LE has put out there. We know more in fact about KKL.
We don’t know much at all about KB.
I am not ready to throw his mom under the bus or to believe PF would do so...yet. I believe KKL knows much more and is more involved than we can imagine and she should be tried as well.
I can see the defense going after KKL and they should. Someone should! I will never see her as an innocent who was conned into helping him.
He hasn’t been proven guilty yet, except by the public. That’s why I believe he will plead innocent and we won’t learn much until trial.
This case really intrigues me.
It's Alabama. He's not in jail. Google and read the insanity of it.
His lawyer should encourage PF to be a blabbermouth.
Maybe the prosecutor will say something or reveal more secrets that PF thought 'hidden', that'll enrage PF , and show the jury just what he is.
I have no problem if he turns on mommy dearest, and they both start slinging mud at each other.
Imo, she knew darn well what was burning on her own property.
S.F. can try to spin it as an amazing coincidence that PF and KK were burning something for a while, and for long enough that there was a burned, blackened area outside a ways from her front door --- and at the same time -- Kelsey happened to go missing without a trace, and without her baby !
Not buying it.
And will not be disappointed if all three of them face ultimately face significant charges.
I am really looking forward to the eventual trial as I expect there to be some major battling between the defense and prosecution teams. It could end up being an epic trial depending on what witnesses are brought to the stand.
The trial cannot start soon enough for me.
The consensus here seems to be that PF will plead not guilty. Is there anyone who thinks he will testify?
If there's irrefutable evidence that kk was not in CO on Thanksgiving, he might as well plead. (Guilty, that is). I doubt he will though. He seems like the type who might expect others to 'buy' his story. He's probably going to come up with some kind of Casey Anthony-type defense. But just moo only.
No good would come from this...his defense team going after KKL will not result in her getting any tougher sentence because it won't be her on trial. It could however result in PF getting away with murdering Kelsey and ultimately the Berreths losing their precious grandbaby to the very person who brutally ended their daughter's life. That would not be justice for Kelsey.
I would think, KK is away from any prying eyes, being very careful what she utters.
She realizes what an idiot she has been, and the future she has ruined.
Her studies, job prospects, her family, friends and acquaintances are all affected by her stupidity.
She certainly is worried about the possibility of PF's trial, and her involvement, and then her case.
Years of stress and uncertainty will greatly affect her health, I would think.
Although she has proven to be vile, I would imagine she regrets her involvement, BECAUSE she has been caught.
I think he will testify, if only to point fingers at lying KK. It will backfire though.
Well, he must not know much about the good folks here at WS.
We DO NOT move on.
Until there is justice!
What date and approximate time window (eg midnight to 5am) do we think PF dumped Kelsey? I guess we’ll see eventually from LE evidence if they can narrow that down. Do you think he dumped her completely on his own or had help?
Thanksgiving, Nov 22
Investigators allege that PF removed KB’s body from her apartment that day. He allegedly stored it in a black plastic tote at the Nash Ranch atop a haystack after having Thanksgiving dinner at his moms house with with family. My guess would be he left his moms and headed towards Nash Rash sometime after 6pm.
It should be two rocks that look like sour ball candy.
I agree that PF probably went right back over to Nash ranch after he showed his face at his Mom's Thanksgiving dinner.
This is all JMO and some musings.
I think he took her body and dumped it down an abandoned mine somewhere not too awful far from Nash ranch. I keep thinking back to what he told his ex girlfriend years prior about knowing a place to hide a body where nobody would find it. IMO, that is the place he took KB to and I have a feeling its an abandoned mine. Probably a pretty deep and steep one that would take ropes and rapelling gear to enter the mine hole.
Then I think he took the empty plastic tote and used it to burn whatever other evidence he needed to burn back at his Mom's place with KK present. Like maybe some clothing, the purse, and other evidence they needed to destroy.
See, he had to burn the empty tote anyway because of body fluids that would have left a very bad odor by the next day.
The part of KK's story that sounded like hogwash to me was when she said she didnt look in the tote and assumed KB was in there. The reason that story is so full of BS is, for one, a person would easily know if the weight of the tote is heavy enough to hold a body. So by the way it was being hauled around would give a hint if there was a heavy body in there or not. And more important than that is once the edges of the plastic burnt down then a person watching the fire would easily be able to see what was inside the tote once the edges melted and folded down onto whatever was inside.
The outside is going to melt and burn first and then fold onto whatever is inside. It would take a very long time to burn an actual body and if that was attempted then whoever was watching the fire burn would surely know what is inside as they watched it burn. You can see pretty good inside fires and you can see the outline of things as they burn down. That body would have become "visible" as the sides melted and folded down onto whatever was inside.
I think KK's story broke down right there. As it was burning, then she would positively know one way or the other whether a body was really inside that tote. For her to say she assumed it was in there but never looked inside and that she never knew for sure one way or the other once the sides melted and folded down, and never really knew what PF did with the burnt debri is some of the biggest load of crap in her whole story. IMO she knows exactly whether the body was really in that tote when she and PF burned the tote and I am pretty sure the body was already down a mine hole by then.
Another reason the body could not have been in that tote as he and KK burned it at his Moms place is there would be an awful mess that would be a major undertaking to get cleaned up after the fire went out. Not to be gross but I doubt PF could have gotten the fire hot enough to reduce the skull and large bones to ash so I am thinking it would be a mess to have to get rid of. From the way LE escavated the dirt near the house I think they ended up only finding bits of the plastic tote but not much else and that would be consistent with no body being burned. PF and KK probably just burned the tote and whatever other clothing items or other items that needed final cleanup. I suspect the body was already dumped down a mine shaft by then.
LE finding nothing at the dump further adds to the theory that the body may not have been burned at all.
Now to help LE actually find the body.
I started to think about the abandoned mines in Colorado and it sounds like a daunting task to check them but really there is a shortcut LE could take.
They could first eliminate any abandoned mines unless within an hours drive of the Nash ranch.
Then they would only have to look in mines where they see recent disturbances around the opening. Because PF would surely have scuffed up the ground and dirt near the entrance to the mine. So any mine that shows no disturbances could be ignored at first and they would only have to search any mines where there looks like recent disturbances to the opening area. Like scuffs or marks on the ground.
The only problem now is so much time may have gone by by now so im not sure if the small disturbances PF probably made would even be recognizable by now. But its still possible that LE may find scuff marks that look rather fresh and if they only searched those first it would help focus on the right abandoned mine.
Just some musings on how LE could still maybe find KB.
I dont think PF used a river because he would know it would eventually be found. Rivers and Lakes have a tendency to float up a body eventually and I doubt PF would have chosen a river. I think he had a place in mind since his discussion with his ex girlfriend years before and he finally got to use that place.
I also think his ex-girlfriend may be lucky to be alive too because if he shared that story with her years before then he may have been thinking of getting rid of her at the time he told her that. Maybe the discussion he had with her was more of an argument where he said "I could kill you and hide your body where nobody would ever find it". I cannot think of any other discussion where that subject would come up unless he was in a heated argument with her at the time.
You make very valid and logical points. I think you might be right. Thanks for taking your time to explain your thoughts so clearly. [Thumbs Up]
Well, I can't wait to hear what SF has to say. PF most likely told her that KB left the baby with him and took off, and she might have believed that for a few days. But she had to know that that was no ordinary trash-burning fire, and I can't imagine that she did not become suspicious even before authorities from multiple LE agencies cut through the lock on the gate and executed a search warrant on her property. Even if she is as dumb as dirt and was deeply in denial, that had to be a major wake-up call.