GUILTY CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #68

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@Seattle1, I read the articles about the ongoing searches for remains by LE and am puzzled.

I'm trying to understand the reasoning to do this ongoing searching if the KB body was in the tote and burned?

Is the theory that the body was not intact?

MOO

Even crematoriums have a hard time burning bodies to total ash. And they have high heat ovens built just for that purpose.

I think it’s unlikely Kelsey was totally burned to ash by those idiots.
 
Just for the record. :)
  • There is no evidence that PF murdered KB…WRONG.
  • There was only blood in the bathroom…WRONG.
  • The trial will never happen by October…WRONG.
  • There’s no proof that KK was in Idaho when KB was murdered...WRONG.
  • KK’s story doesn’t align with the evidence…WRONG.
  • KK planted the tooth at the ranch…WRONG.
  • LE planted the tooth at the ranch…WRONG.
  • KB was drugged and kept alive until KK came to town and killed her...WRONG.
  • All PF did was dispose of the body…WRONG.
  • KB's murder was a hired hit and not something PF did himself…WRONG.
  • DA's don’t engage in plea deals prior to an arrest for homicide...WRONG.
  • There’s not enough evidence for a jury to convict PF...WRONG.
  • The jury won’t believe KK’s story…WRONG.
  • The only way to bond out of jail is with cash…WRONG.
  • You only need one baby gate for a toddler if you have stairs…SMDH
  • PF’s not stupid…WRONG.
  • This case isn't a slam dunk...WRONG.
ETA: Forgot to MOO! Oh yeah, and for anyone wondering - that means MY OWN OPINION and I'm not aware of any other definition. ;)
Wow!! @PommyMommy 's "SLAM DUNK"! You rocked it :)
 
@Seattle1, I read the articles about the ongoing searches for remains by LE and am puzzled.

I'm trying to understand the reasoning to do this ongoing searching if the KB body was in the tote and burned?

Is the theory that the body was not intact?

MOO

No --not that body was not intact but the search was for the ash and debris from the fire.

PF told KK he'd either toss the debris in the river or the landfill. LE spent a month searching the Midway Landfill located in Fountain, Co to no avail.

At the DA's presser yesterday -- investigators revealed they were continuing to search for KB and still receiving tips. I believe Sam said they'd just recently been searching an abandoned mine shaft. MOO
 
@Seattle1, I read the articles about the ongoing searches for remains by LE and am puzzled.

I'm trying to understand the reasoning to do this ongoing searching if the KB body was in the tote and burned?

Is the theory that the body was not intact?

MOO
His backyard bonfire was not hot enough to totally burn the body. There were 'ashes' carted away, reportedly 50 lbs worth, which probably include small bits of bone, etc. :(

LE hoped to find that pile of remains and bring her home.
 
No --not that body was not intact but the search was for the ash and debris from the fire.

PF told KK he'd either toss the debris in the river or the landfill. LE spent a month searching the Midway Landfill located in Fountain, Co to no avail.

At the DA's presser yesterday -- investigators revealed they were continuing to search for KB and still receiving tips. I believe Sam said they'd just recently been searching an abandoned mine shaft. MOO
Yes, it was Sam's comment about these searches that confused me but I understand now.

The determination of LE to bring closure to this tragic case and find the KB remains is impressive IMO.
 
Most definitely. What an idgit! :rolleyes: MOO
In my family the greatest insult is to call someone a cochon. Even worse is to call them a pomme de terre avec le visage d'un cochon. Patrick is definitely the latter, a potato with the face of a pig.
No --not that body was not intact but the search was for the ash and debris from the fire.

PF told KK he'd either toss the debris in the river or the landfill. LE spent a month searching the Midway Landfill located in Fountain, Co to no avail.

At the DA's presser yesterday -- investigators revealed they were continuing to search for KB and still receiving tips. I believe Sam said they'd just recently been searching an abandoned mine shaft. MOO
Hopefully PF will eventually tell someone what he did with KB's remains.
 
Do I remember this testimony correctly? One of the young ranch hands helped PF lift a silver barrel onto the back of a truck? PF's truck? And this was the last the ranch hand saw of it? But when did PF tell one or both ranch hands that there could be animal bones or elk antlers? Didn't he ask them to dispose of something themselves?

The ranch hand testified that he believed the steel drum held ash from the fire, yes? And we all believe it likely contained ash and remains.... so I've been thinking about that event, that day....if it was PF's truck and he drove away with it, to where did he go? I know, I know, $64,000 question, but we know something now we didn't fully know all along. And that's what a dumb criminal he his. Writing down only the most sensitive stuff. To be preserved forever. MO-ron. So where would a moron go, that LE didn't think of and KK didn't know or tell?

I want her remains found.

Try though he did, that monster didn't succeed in obliterating her because she lives on in that precious baby girl, but still, I want badly for some part of her to be found so they can bury her. They deserve that.

The reason I'm stuck on this is because, if the ranch hands unwittingly removed her remains, surely they recall where they went. Regardless, whoever disposed of the drum, was it disposed of in whole or was it emptied? Is that part of the metal later brought to the recycling center, sadly recommended by the brother?

Is it possible that PF drove that drum to the edge of a ravine and dumped it? Somewhere where it sits today, just waiting to be found? I've been to Colorado. Just as there are deep forests, there are cavernous ridges....

I just want to think maybe he wasn't smart enough to get rid of all the evidence. Maybe he just relocated it....

In the end, at least Berreths have what Kelsey loved most. And she'll have her mommy's smile.

And sometimes, when there's nothing else, that's everything.

Just my thoughts....

Yeah Dan May addressed the lack of her remains and his answer was something I thought might be the case: They’re people of faith and know they will see her again. So he’s not sure how big a hole not having her remains is for them.

I get the sense that her earthly body is not as important to them as it to everyone. They’re very religious. I think Seventh Day Adventist?:

As Seventh-day Adventists, we believe the Bible teaches that death is an unconscious state, often referred to as “sleep.” There are many texts that verify this teaching, such as Ecclesiastes 9:5: “For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing.” (See also Ecclesiastes 9:10 and Ecclesiastes 12:7; Psalms 115:17 and Psalms 146:4; John 11:11-4, and Acts 2:29).

So, to the deceased, it does not matter how the remains are cared for because his or her is completely unaware.
Is it biblically acceptable to cremate an Adventist?

Seventh-day Adventist: Adventiststake no position on cremation due to their understanding of death and their belief in resurrection after death. They believe the “God who created us is equally capable of re-creating us from ashes of incineration or from ashes the result of slow decay.” Therefore, Adventists are encouraged to follow their conscience.
Religious Views on Cremation
 
OMG... Patrick sat in an itty bitty chair at the defense table a la Casey Anthony (iirc). This is a video of the courtroom, and he points out the little chair that is so much smaller down than all the others. Optics fail....

Vicente Arenas on Twitter
That was a great video of the courtroom too! The door in & out is right next to the jury box.

Yeah, they put those horrible defendants in those small lowered chairs to try to make them look meek.
 
Does anyone else remember something KK said during her testimony about something she helped clean up or saw early on in her relationship with PF, but didn't elaborate on? I can't remember where I read that and I was wondering what that was all about.
 
Here we go -- the alternate could have made for a hung jury!

Vicente Arenas‏Verified account @vicentearenastv
Frazee Juror: “I thought it was a hard decision” said an alternate juror who wished to remain anonymous. The juror did not vote because of the alternate status. Frazee was found guilty of killing #kelseyberreth on Thanksgiving Day last year. @KDVR @channel2kwgn

The juror shook their head a bit and said “It apparently wasn’t that hard for the others (who voted on the jury)...”

9:09 AM - 19 Nov 2019 from Colorado, USA

EJwFffIWoAIk_I4.jpg

9:08 AM - 19 Nov 2019 from Teller County Courthouse
 
Holy crap - sounds like the prosecution escaped a possible holdout.

Vicente Arenas on Twitter
Frazee Juror: “I thought it was a hard decision” said an alternate juror who wished to remain anonymous. The juror did not vote because of the alternate status. Frazee was found guilty of killing #kelseyberreth on Thanksgiving Day last year.
@KDVR
@channel2kwgn

The juror shook their head a bit and said “It apparently wasn’t that hard for the others (who voted on the jury)...”
11:09 AM · Nov 19, 2019 from Colorado, USA·Twitter for iPad
 
Just for the record. :)
  • There is no evidence that PF murdered KB…WRONG.
  • There was only blood in the bathroom…WRONG.
  • The trial will never happen by October…WRONG.
  • There’s no proof that KK was in Idaho when KB was murdered...WRONG.
  • KK’s story doesn’t align with the evidence…WRONG.
  • KK planted the tooth at the ranch…WRONG.
  • LE planted the tooth at the ranch…WRONG.
  • KB was drugged and kept alive until KK came to town and killed her...WRONG.
  • All PF did was dispose of the body…WRONG.
  • KB's murder was a hired hit and not something PF did himself…WRONG.
  • DA's don’t engage in plea deals prior to an arrest for homicide...WRONG.
  • There’s not enough evidence for a jury to convict PF...WRONG.
  • The jury won’t believe KK’s story…WRONG.
  • The only way to bond out of jail is with cash…WRONG.
  • You only need one baby gate for a toddler if you have stairs…SMDH
  • PF’s not stupid…WRONG.
  • This case isn't a slam dunk...WRONG.
ETA: Forgot to MOO! Oh yeah, and for anyone wondering - that means MY OWN OPINION and I'm not aware of any other definition. ;)

• The letter’s weren’t authenticated as PF’s.
• The state had the burden of obtaining a hand writing expert to prove the letters were PF’s.
• Since they didn’t, the defense didn’t need to cross examine or challenge the authorship.
• Closing arguments are going to be a boon for the defense.

All wrong.
 
So, I'm sewing today which makes my mind wander. Something just hit me and maybe I missed it somewhere so maybe one of y'all has the answer. After PF killed KB, packed her up, cleaned himself up, he got the baby and off they went to Ma's. From there on out, PF was driving all over creation, moving KB here and there, meeting up with KK, plotting his alibi and burning bonfires. Where was the baby this whole time he is driving around trying to cover his tracks? Was Ma watching her?
The mere thought of that baby being with him (as everyone has said she always was) is enough to make me want to vomit. ::insert vomit emoji here:: MOO,MOO
 
That was a great video of the courtroom too! The door in & out is right next to the jury box.

Yeah, they put those horrible defendants in those small lowered chairs to try to make them look meek.

Excellent visual of the courtroom scene -- I loved this reporter's video snippets throughout the trial too.

Also, the swinging doors to the courtroom are right next to the jury box and it makes perfect sense whey Judge Sells restricted entry/exit to breaks or recess.

MOO
 
I think KK showed up at KB's condo around 9 pm with her Auntie waiting in the car because she couldn't handle the suspense any longer. KK was curious and wanted to size her up -- she wanted to see her in the flesh. Who was the woman that didn't have to abort PF's child? KK also gave KB her burner phone number for a play-date! That's already just too much evidence (plus fingerprints) to leave a poisoned coffee behind.

MOO
Agreed!
Then this begs the question if they have her pings on each time she sailed into Teller county, then do they have cam corset shots at her door at 9pm?
Hmmmm..........
 
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