Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by Dalagali, Dec 29, 2017.
This one has wrecked me too. I dont even know what to say.
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-she had just moved from her dads place, right? Maybe the bruises are from before she moved out?
-JL noted homelessness and he is in the art scene. Maybe he knew her from interactions there.
-my prediction is that she wanted to OD, and had a backup plan if she wasn't successful.
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I just have trouble figuring out why JL would even answer a hitman message. Maybe just to talk at first and then as he got to know her, he started to feel for her depression? Obviously he had the hidden desire to kill. Maybe he thought if he killed someone he barely knew, he wouldn’t get caught? I’m just not sure why he would lie at this point with something so easy to disprove. He went willingly, he admitted to killing her with seemingly very little prodding. He could have easily said he picked her up to meet for the first time and she was high and pointed the gun at him, so he grabbed it and shot her. Why build an elaborate Craigslist hitman story? Maybe because he likes to write and lives in that sort of fantasy land? Immortalize himself as one of his fictional characters? Sorry for the ramble, just thinking out loud.
I believe she moved from her paternal grandmother’s house.
There is a long-discussed story about Angelina Jolie during time of her marriage to Billy Bob. Supposedly she wanted to commit suicide but thought that would be too hard on her family, so she solicited a hitman to murder her instead. I cant personally attest to the credibility of this story, but if you google angelina hitman you will find that it has been discussed several times in various places online throughout the years.
On December 10, 2017, a user in the /r/todayilearned/ subreddit submitted a post titled, TIL that Angelina Jolie once tried to hire a hitman to kill her, because she felt that a murder would be easier on her family than her committing suicide. The would-be-hitman talked her out of it by asking her to wait a month. That reddit post was seen by many, many people. It was the 14th most popular post to that subreddit in the year 2017 and easily reached the front page of /r/all/, receiving more than 100,000 upvotes and more than 4200 comments.
IMO its quite possible that she saw this post and thought it was a clever way out of what sounds like several bad situations, or that he saw this post and thought it was a clever excuse for ending someones complicated life.
IF what JL claims is true, and my sense is that at least part of it is true, here are my thoughts at a high level:
First possibility in my mind is JL and NB did get in touch over craigslist, but it was to purchase drugs or sell JMs gun for drug money. These posts are often written in code so they wouldnt flag any TOS. JL has a desire to kill and has his own fantasies and found NB as an easy target. She left her phone in her apartment (that part we still dont know for sure) because she was planning on jumping in JLs car to make the transaction and be done with it. Later, JM realized his gun was missing and called in the missing persons report. Due to NBs past suicidal tendencies and her RO on SS, LE took it seriously very quickly. In this scenario, it was a thrill kill.
Second possibility IMO is that JLs claims are at least somewhat true. In this scenario, I speculate that NB desperately wanted to get away from her current situation, whether that included Domestic violence or not, and either didnt believe in suicide or simply couldnt bring herself to do it. She posted a CL ad, likely in code to avoid getting the post flagged. They texted a lot to get the details of what NB actually wanted done and why, and what payment would entail (my guess is the gun, but who knows). NB may have used her own phone but IMO JL likely used a burner phone or an easy-to-access app that allows you to change your number so he could have some level of security in moving forward with this plan. NB numbed herself with drugs and the rest unfolded.
Then, when LE had brief access to NBs phone before it died (according to affidavit), they saw some (if not all) of the text messages and/or the CL ad. They determined from that that this was an isolated incident and informed the public they werent in danger. They then took some time to go through all of NBs texts with JL (plus allllll the other social media data) and worked to identify JL through this fake number. It took some time.
The last two possibility Im working on right now are definitely the furthest stretch. Keep in mind this is all speculation.
Someone in NBs life texted as her (they do not have to physically have her phone to do so, there are apps where you can type in any number and send texts as if its from that number, when someone replies it goes to the app user, not the person who owns that number). This person made sure NB was heavily drug induced before telling her to meet JL outside to get some drugs, telling her to bring the gun for protection. Being so out of it, NB did as she was told and once in the car, JL started driving, thinking she was in on the plan. Perhaps it was even part of the plan that NB would act as if she didnt know what was going on, like a kidnapping - some people get off on sick fantasies like this.
Last possibility, again highly unlikely, is that NB wanted to frame/punish people in her life by setting up this plan (very Gone Girl). She wanted to use her boyfriends gun (this hasnt been confirmed) and she wanted it execution style - hoping LE would immediately suspect him.
This is all my own opinion given what we know right now. MOO. What other theories do you guys have? What are your thoughts on any of the above?
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That's an Interesting thought... that would also be easy to prove that it. was her idea because they will track her internet search history on her phone. (Although for JML it's still murder).
Going with your scenario ,then two weeks prior, she decides to take out the RO on SS after being harrassed for over a year. ( and no I'm not defending SS or blaming NB, I know he harrassed her ,I'm just going with this therory mentioned above)
Could she of posted the ad out of desperation asking for help/ideas and JML gives her the Angelina Jolie idea, and he sees SS as the perfect scapegoat?? I don't see NB as being so cruel to set up SS, (as she did care about him at one time and seems to have a heart of gold)) but I could see an outsider can so easily murder someone,as coming up with that .
Sadly, I think she was suicidal and posted that ad on Craigslist.
Actually, if they can prove his story is true, it would be manslaughter.
Manslaughter: Recklessly causing the death of another person or intentionally causing or aiding another person to commit suicide. This is a Class 4 Felony punishable by up to 6 years imprisonment and up to $500,000 in fines.
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I do not think this is considered causing or aiding in suicide. He pulled the trigger. I think that causing relates more to bullying, encouraging the suicide. This case would be a good example: https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/05/us/texting-suicide-case-trial-begins/index.html
My theory is that JL was hired through a Craigslist ad by the bf or another third party. Whoever hired him was posing as NB/had her phone, provided the gun, perhaps the payment, and got NB drugged up enough to go along with it.
I think your first possibility has a lot of merit. They all ring a bit of truth though. MOO.
I agree with you BRRI. In my opinion in order for this to be charged as manslaughter he might have merely provided the gun (or drugs) that she used to kill herself. IMO that would be aiding...but actually pulling the trigger would be first-degree. That being said, I'm sure that his defense attorney will recommend settling for second degree (with chance of parole someday).
Also as you alluded to earlier, Colorado being a right-to-die state does not mean that people can just go around killing others who are suicidal. There are strict rules as mentioned before...the main one being that the person needs to be terminally classified as having six months or less to live by a medical professional. Comments from others who have said that it's 'convenient that Colorado is a right-to-die state' is probably one of the main reasons that this law is not in effect in all states (as it should be IMHO).
What Lopez did was not excusable in any way shape or form. A terminally ill person (adult) choosing to end their life early instead of suffering needlessly for months should be an absolute right in my opinion. This wouldn't be the personal choice for many religious people and that is absolutely fine, however, it should be available to anyone (facing the aforementioned situation) who makes that decision for themselves.
These two situations are completely different and I hope that others will never see them as interchangeable.
This is fascinating - I never knew this and the timing of the reddit thread raises the question if what he is saying is true (or the possibility that he read the thread and generated his own version of events). I'm seriously blown away by the last 24 hours - just totally out of left field. Natalie was a complex person alive with a complex history, now in her death it just continues.
I just can't get my head around it all - I hate to say it but we may actually be looking at zebras not horses here. Who would have thought...
I can't remember which article it was in, but haven't they already said the charge will proceed as murder, but if his story is true it may reduce his sentence? I agree this still meets the criteria for murder - but I have no doubt his legal team will fight to get that lowered. I really wonder if his capacity will be a factor - I saw in some of his online ponderings that he discussed physical abuse/psychological abuse from his father (whether this is true or not).
Yes. A local legal expert and criminal defense attorney said that this would move forward as murder, likely with a reduced sentence of life in prison with eligibility for parole (as opposed to without parole).
They stated in the presser that the charge was first-degree. I didn't read this about the expert but I think that's exactly what will happen.
Those little bruises...like the three in her inguinal area... fingerprints maybe? Like from being grabbed really hard?
Also it says they prayed before he shot her. My belief system says that if I kill myself, I will go to hell (although I personally think God is merciful and it's not an automatic thing)...maybe hers was the same? Maybe she was trying to bypass that by being murdered instead?
Far-fetched I know. Just thinking
Wow sure sounds like that may be what she was thinking. I hadn't read the prayer part, maybe missed it.It breaks my heart to know how much poor NB was hurting to of arranged all of this. ( of course, if indeed his version is verified) That poor poor young girl.
Do you have the link to that ? Just want to see what else I may have missed.
Sorry, I can't copy and paste the paragraph but it's towards the end. My phone has a mind of its own so hope the link works
It was one of the news stations. Ill try to find the article.
ETA: cant find the exact article, but it was Denver 7