CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[SheepMan]

BBM

What if they witnessed CW killing their mother?

Very good - that could be the link in my totally off the cuff theory. Could a 3 and 4 year old explain something like that to LE? I guess they could say something that makes it hard for CW

 

[Inthedetails]

What's everyone's thinking about the order of the murders? Do you think the children were murdered before or after SW?

My current thought is that the girls were already gone by the time SW arrived home. But, I'm not totally 100% with that theory.

And, what's everyone thinking about the planning? Did he get in a fight with SW, kill her, and then decide to kill the children as an afterthought? Or did he plan the whole thing from the start - to get rid of his entire family?

(These questions are going with the assumption CW is the one responsible for all murders, as charged by LE.)

jmo

 

[SheepMan]

We know he was pretty brazen with AP. Someone could’ve texted her from Anadarko, or someone might have seen them on one of their dates & asked SW about it...

How do we know he was brazen about AP? I feel I’ve missed something maybe?

 

[PommyMommy]

Very good - that could be the link in my totally off the cuff theory. Could a 3 and 4 year old explain something like that to LE? I guess they could say something that makes it hard for CW

Absolutely. "Daddy hurt my Mommy."
IMO

ETA: This is the story of a 2 year old who shot his Dad.
‘I Hurt My Dad’: The Tragic Moment a 2-Year-Old Accidentally Shoots, Kills Father

“I hurt my dad,” the little boy told his mom after she discovered his father and called police, reported AL.com.

 

[Jacquie1]

I think if you were being strangled you might be trying to get his hands off your neck instead of scratching him....so you could breathe. You wouldn't have much energy to fight if you can't breathe.

He took her by surprise. But I think it went like this; she finds the kids not breathing, screams for him to call 911 and starts cpr (hence her dna), she’s crying praying they “wake up” she’s inconsolable & trying cpr screaming for him & he’s ignoring her. Finally she grabs her phone in the loft planning to call on her own and he attacks her. Again she is hysterical crying (which makes you physically weak) and probably didn’t realize at 1st what was happening.... until it was too late... I think she ripped the purple lupus bracelet off as he strangled her from behind... he was probably wearing gloves (no scratches on his hands) OR He also may have used the pillowcase to strangle her. The natural instinct is to claw at what is restricting your breathing, NOT the person doing it..

 

[cottonweaver]

I had a thought - SW posted about being happy to see Chris and the girls as she was waiting for the delayed flight. Therefore I am not sure she was 100% certain about him having an affair and planning a conversation with him about it as soon as she got home. What if she came home and went to get into bed and found something incriminating in the bed (underwear, earring or such) that wasn’t hers. That might explain the bed sheets on the floor as she ripped them off to see if anything else was in the bed. Then they argue and he commits the dreadful act of killing her. I can’t tie that to him then going and killing the girls though.....hmmm. Purely a thought and IMO

That's interesting.
Do you know if that was the day of depature/at airport etc or much before then, if you still recall dates.
Cause it could put paid to scenarios where she's found out something about AP before she gets on that plane home.

 

[NothingClever]

What's everyone's thinking about the order of the murders? Do you think the children were murdered before or after SW?

SBM

IMO I believe the girls were gone before SW came home. I’m looking forward to hearing the evidence they have to show more info on that. Such as stomach contents, clothing being worn, more info on the sheets, cadaver dog hits, and the Apple Watch activity info that was hopefully tied to SW’s phone.

 

[DAdvocate]

He took her by surprise. But I think it went like this; she finds the kids not breathing, screams for him to call 911 and starts cpr (hence her dna), she’s crying praying they “wake up” she’s inconsolable & trying cpr screaming for him & he’s ignoring her. Finally she grabs her phone in the loft planning to call on her own and he attacks her. Again she is hysterical crying (which makes you physically weak) and probably didn’t realize at 1st what was happening.... until it was too late... I think she ripped the purple lupus bracelet off as he strangled her from behind... he was probably wearing gloves (no scratches on his hands) OR He also may have used the pillowcase to strangle her. The natural instinct is to claw at what is restricting your breathing, NOT the person doing it..

Not a chance! IMO

 

[MerryB]

He took her by surprise. But I think it went like this; she finds the kids not breathing, screams for him to call 911 and starts cpr (hence her dna), she’s crying praying they “wake up” she’s inconsolable & trying cpr screaming for him & he’s ignoring her. Finally she grabs her phone in the loft planning to call on her own and he attacks her. Again she is hysterical crying (which makes you physically weak) and probably didn’t realize at 1st what was happening.... until it was too late... I think she ripped the purple lupus bracelet off as he strangled her from behind... he was probably wearing gloves (no scratches on his hands) OR He also may have used the pillowcase to strangle her. The natural instinct is to claw at what is restricting your breathing, NOT the person doing it..

Or, he waited for her to go to sleep, and then straddled her, pinning her arms to her side. If a man of his strength is sitting on top of her chest with her arms pinned underneath, there's no fighting. She may have wriggled underneath him, but it could explain why there were no defensive wounds on him (that we know of).

 

[RavenCC2020]

I've known four people who were diagnosed with schizophrenia - a very serious mental illness. It doesn't take people very long to realize there is something wrong, because of their behavior and the things they talk about.

I also, unfortunately, have known someone who is a psychopath. Some call it sociopath and there is a lot of disagreement over the terms, but it is agreed that both fall into the cluster B spectrum of personality disorders, specifically anti-social personality disorder.

Except for his parents and some other family members who know his full history, no one, and I mean no one had the slightest clue there was anything at all wrong with him. He is good-looking, charming, articulate, soft-spoken and comes off as an easy-going, really nice guy. Everyone trusted him. He carried on his act for several years. After he did his "thing", and left everyone mortified, he then tried to act like he was the one who was a victim.

Skip forward and he's living a new life, in a different state, with a new job and new wife, who only knows what he wants her to know. My guess is, he's also got a new personality to go along with his new life. His family will never tell his new wife about his past, because they've had to deal with the damage he's caused numerous times, over many years, and they prefer to have him be someone else's problem and just hope for the best. His previous victims won't tell the new wife, either, because they are terrified of him. They have seen what he is capable of doing and they watched his mask come off.

He's never had so much as a speeding ticket.

Crazy - no. Disordered - yes. They do not just snap. They prey on nice, normal and trusting people and when they are tired of their current situation, they do their "thing", which is always beyond hideous. It's also confusing because it makes no sense.

JMO

Excellent post Molly. I couldn't have described his personality better if I tried. He has absolutely fooled everyone around him EXCEPT his parents. They absolutely are aware of most his hidden demons. That is why he confessed after seeing his dad. He can't totally con dad which is the reason he admitted to killing SW but NOT the kids. He doesn't want dad to know JUST how screwed up he was. It's not meaning he feels any shame about what he did to them, he just understands that it is not the "norm" for men to kill their children. He feels he can get away with it with dad by lying about him observing SW killing his kids. Justifiable homicide in his eyes so dad can understand better.

 

[cbs]

Does CW have access to the news? I wonder if he ever saw his interviews. If he has had access to tv, I wonder if videos of SW and the girls ever come up.

What is it like for him right now in jail?

 

[BeanieBod]

I can’t imagine what these days must be like behind bars. Have everything one day and nothing the next.

He made that choice when he choose to kill someone.

 

[DAdvocate]

Does CW have access to the news? I wonder if he ever saw his interviews. If he has had access to tv, I wonder if videos of SW and the girls ever come up.

What is it like for him right now in jail?

I believe I saw an article where the friends he stayed with said he was watching the interviews of himself on the phone while he was with them.

 

[Betty P]

What's everyone's thinking about the order of the murders? Do you think the children were murdered before or after SW?

My current thought is that the girls were already gone by the time SW arrived home. But, I'm not totally 100% with that theory.

And, what's everyone thinking about the planning? Did he get in a fight with SW, kill her, and then decide to kill the children as an afterthought? Or did he plan the whole thing from the start - to get rid of his entire family?

(These questions are going with the assumption CW is the one responsible for all murders, as charged by LE.)

jmo

JMO, he killed the children before she got home. She was killed shortly after arriving home. According to the arrest affadavit, her purse was in the kitchen, her shoes by the front door, her suitcase at the bottom of the steps. She only had time to go upstairs carrying her cell phone. He needed to kill her ASAP and dispose of the body before dawn.

https://mediaassets.thedenverchannel.com/document/2018/08/20/arrest affidavit chris watts_95256653_ver1.0.pdf

To get everything done in that compressed time frame, he probably killed the girls before she got home.

ETA: Was it also possible his recounting of seeing the children on the bedroom monitor was actually something that SW saw when she arrived home? Did she see him attacking them on the monitor as she walked inside and ran upstairs to stop him?

 

[zencompass]

I found this article about Judge Marcelo Kopcow interesting.

I have great faith in this judge! I really like learning about backgrounds of those involved in court cases.

From article describing Judge Kopcow:

"He said the roots in his law career can be found in his childhood when he translated for his parents, who didn’t speak English."

“That’s how I acquired this consciousness about helping people, and I think I chose this work precisely because of that,” Kopcow said.



A judge’s journey

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Does anyone know how long of a drive it is between the house and the oil tanks? tia

Shanann’s body was discovered in a shallow grave about 65km from the family’s Frederick home; the girls’ bodies were recovered from nearby oil tanks, according to an arrest warrant affidavit.

65 km = 40.3 miles

Killer dad’s chilling YouTube video

 

[BabyButterfly]

My hubby would never allow me to visit my family for 6 weeks away from him. I think they were already separated but still living under the same roof.

My hubby and I lived apart for almost a year. Two different states, we were not separated, it was what was needed at the time. So to me, that's a non-issue.

 

[Coolmomof4]

I've known four people who were diagnosed with schizophrenia - a very serious mental illness. It doesn't take people very long to realize there is something wrong, because of their behavior and the things they talk about.

I also, unfortunately, have known someone who is a psychopath. Some call it sociopath and there is a lot of disagreement over the terms, but it is agreed that both fall into the cluster B spectrum of personality disorders, specifically anti-social personality disorder.

Except for his parents and some other family members who know his full history, no one, and I mean no one had the slightest clue there was anything at all wrong with him. He is good-looking, charming, articulate, soft-spoken and comes off as an easy-going, really nice guy. Everyone trusted him. He carried on his act for several years. After he did his "thing", and left everyone mortified, he then tried to act like he was the one who was a victim.

Skip forward and he's living a new life, in a different state, with a new job and new wife, who only knows what he wants her to know. My guess is, he's also got a new personality to go along with his new life. His family will never tell his new wife about his past, because they've had to deal with the damage he's caused numerous times, over many years, and they prefer to have him be someone else's problem and just hope for the best. His previous victims won't tell the new wife, either, because they are terrified of him. They have seen what he is capable of doing and they watched his mask come off.

He's never had so much as a speeding ticket.

Crazy - no. Disordered - yes. They do not just snap. They prey on nice, normal and trusting people and when they are tired of their current situation, they do their "thing", which is always beyond hideous. It's also confusing because it makes no sense.

JMO

You just described my ex-husband and his family perfectly. This is real.

 

[MerryB]

I believe I saw an article where the friends he stayed with said he was watching the interviews of himself on the phone while he was with them.

Ew. If true, that would definitely be a "red flag." Do you have a link?

 

[MerryB]

Does CW have access to the news? I wonder if he ever saw his interviews. If he has had access to tv, I wonder if videos of SW and the girls ever come up.

What is it like for him right now in jail?

It would be nice if they played the video of his sweet daughter singing the "Hero" song she learned for her preschool Father's Day program on continuous loop.