Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[MerryB]

I'd like to elaborate a little more on the "emasculation" potential discussed last night. Shut down the pc and just read through posts and noticed the topic continued.

@Gitana 1 wrote: "Do you believe that saying on a public video "you're not being very helpful Chris", in an even tone like we heard in the video, not a nasty tone, not yelling, is "very emasculating"?"

Not all examples are as extreme as the "Boogie Nights" example you cited! And I certainly wasn't referring to just one comment in one video.

I encourage you to look up emasculation.

Emasculation is *not* just about sex or sexuality. It includes a variety of things, including the man feeling in control, having some power, feeling that his intelligence is respected, physical and emotional strength, having his opinions be respected, etc.

Various psychology sites state that emasculation can include: Pointing out his flaws, badmouthing him to friends, checking out in the bedroom, undermining him ("You did it wrong - never mind, I'll do it myself"), shaming him in public, scoffing at his salary, calling him a wimp ("he doesn't have game"), taking over arguments, pointing out his flaws ("he doesn't listen to me"). Some men feel emasculated the instant the wife starts earning more money than them.

IMO, and of course it's only based on her videos which is all we have to go by, she will praise CW when she's in a mood to do so and when he's not in the video.

When he participates in a video, it's all about the kids and what they're doing, and he's an accessory or puppet and had better do things right. I don't know if she did all of the above things that I quoted as examples, but she certainly did some of them in her very public videos. Yes, some of the videos and comments were harmless,
but when factored into the whole picture and combined together, along with some VI comments that we have, I stand by my opinion that this could *possibly* be part of the issue.

Perhaps those types of comments were few and far between, and perhaps not. None of us know.

A VI mentioned a few days back that she would put him down in public. That can really have a severe cumulative effect in someone's mind esp if the person is extremely sensitive. Some see ribbing and some internalize the hurt. See Trinket78's post #483: "He was verbally abused from the beginning."

Yes, that is VIs opinion, just as we are entitled to form our own opinions here, and just as other friends and family members have opinions, and the poor jury is going to have to weed through them.

And we have another VI opinion that SW didn't really put CW down, and in fact, only tended to boost people up.

BOTH of those opinions are valid and even accurate, because it is based on those people's interactions and experience with the parties involved.

Maybe the reason she puffed him up with her compliments in certain videos is because she DID berate him and he talked to her about it, so that was her way of apologizing, letting him know that she really didn't mean it and did love him, couldn't live without him, etc. Who knows.

It could have been a potential "snapping" trigger on that night. SW could have been so upset about the potential separation that she raged at him - "After all I've done for you! You were nothing when we met. Nothing. You dressed like an idiot. I encouraged you to take that job. You'd be nowhere without me." and so on... That could have been his last straw.

Great post @JerseyWasHome2 ! IMO you are a very observant, intuitive, and intelligent poster.

 

[Marli61]

Chris Watts was fired from Anadarko shortly before he was arrested.
Funeral for Shanann Watts, 2 daughters today

Thank you PommyMommy. That's what I thought.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'd like to elaborate a little more on the "emasculation" potential discussed last night. Shut down the pc and just read through posts and noticed the topic continued.

@Gitana 1 wrote: "Do you believe that saying on a public video "you're not being very helpful Chris", in an even tone like we heard in the video, not a nasty tone, not yelling, is "very emasculating"?"

Not all examples are as extreme as the "Boogie Nights" example you cited! And I certainly wasn't referring to just one comment in one video.

I encourage you to look up emasculation.

Emasculation is *not* just about sex or sexuality. It includes a variety of things, including the man feeling in control, having some power, feeling that his intelligence is respected, physical and emotional strength, having his opinions be respected, etc.

Various psychology sites state that emasculation can include: Pointing out his flaws, badmouthing him to friends, checking out in the bedroom, undermining him ("You did it wrong - never mind, I'll do it myself"), shaming him in public, scoffing at his salary, calling him a wimp ("he doesn't have game"), taking over arguments, pointing out his flaws ("he doesn't listen to me"). Some men feel emasculated the instant the wife starts earning more money than them.

IMO, and of course it's only based on her videos which is all we have to go by, she will praise CW when she's in a mood to do so and when he's not in the video.

When he participates in a video, it's all about the kids and what they're doing, and he's an accessory or puppet and had better do things right. I don't know if she did all of the above things that I quoted as examples, but she certainly did some of them in her very public videos. Yes, some of the videos and comments were harmless,
but when factored into the whole picture and combined together, along with some VI comments that we have, I stand by my opinion that this could *possibly* be part of the issue.

Perhaps those types of comments were few and far between, and perhaps not. None of us know.

A VI mentioned a few days back that she would put him down in public. That can really have a severe cumulative effect in someone's mind esp if the person is extremely sensitive. Some see ribbing and some internalize the hurt. See Trinket78's post #483: "He was verbally abused from the beginning."

Yes, that is VIs opinion, just as we are entitled to form our own opinions here, and just as other friends and family members have opinions, and the poor jury is going to have to weed through them.

And we have another VI opinion that SW didn't really put CW down, and in fact, only tended to boost people up.

BOTH of those opinions are valid and even accurate, because it is based on those people's interactions and experience with the parties involved.

Maybe the reason she puffed him up with her compliments in certain videos is because she DID berate him and he talked to her about it, so that was her way of apologizing, letting him know that she really didn't mean it and did love him, couldn't live without him, etc. Who knows.

It could have been a potential "snapping" trigger on that night. SW could have been so upset about the potential separation that she raged at him - "After all I've done for you! You were nothing when we met. Nothing. You dressed like an idiot. I encouraged you to take that job. You'd be nowhere without me." and so on... That could have been his last straw.

I think I know what you mean. If CW has a Narcissistic Personality or more likely ASPD, this would have been very difficult for him to handle. People like this have a desire to be in control. Since SW was the dominant one, I would think this would have really got to him. He may have been holding all his anger inside. In the end, strangulation would have given him the ultimate feeling of power and control. It is often used in incidents of domestic violence, whether intent to kill is there or not. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

So basically the only fact we have to go on that SW killed the girls is CW's word? There hasn't been any physical or even circumstantial evidence pointing towards that yet? Only speculation based on feelings people get from watching her SM videos? (And not everyone interprets those videos the same way.) And the idea that she might have known that he was cheating? (Though that is also speculative.)

No, as far as I can tell it is just his claim. There is no evidence to support the theory that she was the one to kill her children. Posters have asked several times for reasonable motives based on the details we have so far, or even speculation based on what we have seen so far. There have been a few, but I think some people would still like to hear something more convincing. Jmo

 

[NuttMegg]

I think I know what you mean. If CW has a Narcissistic Personality or more likely ASPD, this would have been very difficult for him to handle. People like this have a desire to be in control. Since SW was the dominant one, I would think this would have really got to him. He may have been holding all his anger inside. In the end, strangulation would have given him the ultimate feeling of power and control. It is often used in incidents of domestic violence, whether intent to kill is there or not. Jmo

Then, maybe they should call it "abnormal manhood anxiety" which means he's the one with the problem, instead of calling it "emasculation" which certainly points the blame at the woman. OK, back to the potato field.

 

[Stripehaven]

Then, maybe they should call it "abnormal manhood anxiety" which means he's the one with the problem, instead of calling it "emasculation" which certainly points the blame at the woman. OK, back to the potato field.

Amen, sister. Do we ever see scholarly articles bewailing “efeminization” and suggesting that women suffer from not being valued?

 

[Nudgee]

Click "Reply" at the bottom of the post.

Thank You PommyMommy!

 

[Asevario]

"By Thursday afternoon, Anadarko had confirmed that Watts was fired Wednesday."
Quote from above article.
It says he was fired Wednesday and it doesn't say before or after the arrest... so is there another source that says he was fired after the arrest?

That was also my question, as well. Iirc he was detained at the station for questioning earlier that day, though not sure exactly what time (I would MOO it was sometime in the early afternoon, since the Thayers stated in their interview that he left their house late morning to pick his father up at the airport) and he wasn’t actually under arrest until 11:30PM Wednesday night. I am an HR professional and it seems odd that there would be an HR rep on hand at that time of night to render a termination. Hence leading me to believe he would have been termed during normal business hours. (MEO). Which also leads me to further question his reason for termination. I plan to try to do further research into their policies and procedures and code of ethics to see if he may have broken a policy by being a suspect, since there was no reports that he admitted to anything until after he spoke to his father that night. I’ve read other speculations on his term reason in other forums which have me interested on another possible motive which could lead to signs of pre-meditation.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Great post @JerseyWasHome2 ! IMO you are a very observant, intuitive, and intelligent poster.

Thanks, MerryB! I try to be, and try to look at all angles and possibilities. Very curious in the "why" of this case, although I fear we will never know, as we never really learned the why's in other cases. Ugh.

 

[MsBetsy]

Then, maybe they should call it "abnormal manhood anxiety" which means he's the one with the problem, instead of calling it "emasculation" which certainly points the blame at the woman. OK, back to the potato field.

Yes, there are many things that point to him being not "normal" such as his apparent lack of empathy, remorse or any emotions besides nervousness and anxiety, which were normal given that fact that he knew he couldn't keep up his deceitful act much longer. Strangling people, hiding evidence, and tossing your dead children into oil barrels is not indicative of normal behavior. On the other hand we may witness a controlling wife, as perceived through the video's, who seems to have a strong desire to have things the way she likes, and even critical at times, but this describes just about every woman I know. ( I am just going by what people describe in the videos, I have not seen them so I might be off on the details) It is normal human behavior for couples to express dismay or even be critical once in awhile. Anyone who claims they and their spouse are always civil, polite and agreeable to each other has a unique marriage, imo.

 

[molly1255]

I'd like to elaborate a little more on the "emasculation" potential discussed last night. Shut down the pc and just read through posts and noticed the topic continued.

@Gitana 1 wrote: "Do you believe that saying on a public video "you're not being very helpful Chris", in an even tone like we heard in the video, not a nasty tone, not yelling, is "very emasculating"?"

Not all examples are as extreme as the "Boogie Nights" example you cited! And I certainly wasn't referring to just one comment in one video.

I encourage you to look up emasculation.

Emasculation is *not* just about sex or sexuality. It includes a variety of things, including the man feeling in control, having some power, feeling that his intelligence is respected, physical and emotional strength, having his opinions be respected, etc.

Various psychology sites state that emasculation can include: Pointing out his flaws, badmouthing him to friends, checking out in the bedroom, undermining him ("You did it wrong - never mind, I'll do it myself"), shaming him in public, scoffing at his salary, calling him a wimp ("he doesn't have game"), taking over arguments, pointing out his flaws ("he doesn't listen to me"). Some men feel emasculated the instant the wife starts earning more money than them.

IMO, and of course it's only based on her videos which is all we have to go by, she will praise CW when she's in a mood to do so and when he's not in the video.

When he participates in a video, it's all about the kids and what they're doing, and he's an accessory or puppet and had better do things right. I don't know if she did all of the above things that I quoted as examples, but she certainly did some of them in her very public videos. Yes, some of the videos and comments were harmless,
but when factored into the whole picture and combined together, along with some VI comments that we have, I stand by my opinion that this could *possibly* be part of the issue.

Perhaps those types of comments were few and far between, and perhaps not. None of us know.

A VI mentioned a few days back that she would put him down in public. That can really have a severe cumulative effect in someone's mind esp if the person is extremely sensitive. Some see ribbing and some internalize the hurt. See Trinket78's post #483: "He was verbally abused from the beginning."

Yes, that is VIs opinion, just as we are entitled to form our own opinions here, and just as other friends and family members have opinions, and the poor jury is going to have to weed through them.

And we have another VI opinion that SW didn't really put CW down, and in fact, only tended to boost people up.

BOTH of those opinions are valid and even accurate, because it is based on those people's interactions and experience with the parties involved.

Maybe the reason she puffed him up with her compliments in certain videos is because she DID berate him and he talked to her about it, so that was her way of apologizing, letting him know that she really didn't mean it and did love him, couldn't live without him, etc. Who knows.

It could have been a potential "snapping" trigger on that night. SW could have been so upset about the potential separation that she raged at him - "After all I've done for you! You were nothing when we met. Nothing. You dressed like an idiot. I encouraged you to take that job. You'd be nowhere without me." and so on... That could have been his last straw.

JMO, If CW perceived SW emasculated him, and he was so fed up, why didn't he just leave? He never needed SW's agreement to separate.

Instead of leaving, he became involved in an extra-marital affair with a co-worker. This required him to betray his wife, and also his daughters. It means he lied. It means he gave time, energy and attention to an AP that should have gone to his family. It also means he probably spent money on the AP that should have been used to help support his family.

How does this make CW a "victim"? IMO, it makes him a cheater who lies. A very selfish person.

If it turns out that CW had multiple affairs, then that makes him an entirely different kind of animal.

All JMO.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Do we ever see scholarly articles bewailing “efeminization” and suggesting that women suffer from not being valued?

I wonder if the case of Sally Challen might fall along those lines. Apparently her husband emotionally abused her by criticzing her weight, insisting she do all the housework, was horribly controlling, while he visited brothels and such. Sally Challen

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

JMO, If CW perceived SW emasculated him, and he was so fed up, why didn't he just leave? He never needed SW's agreement to separate.

Instead of leaving, he became involved in an extra-marital affair with a co-worker. This required him to betray his wife, and also his daughters. It means he lied. It means he gave time, energy and attention to an AP that should have gone to his family. It also means he probably spent money on the AP that should have been used to help support his family.

How does this make CW a "victim"? IMO, it makes him a cheater who lies. A very selfish person.

If it turns out that CW had multiple affairs, then that makes him an entirely different kind of animal.

All JMO.

Yup! I think we all feel that way - just get a divorce!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Chris Watts was fired from Anadarko shortly before he was arrested.
Funeral for Shanann Watts, 2 daughters today

How can we be getting different info from different sources. It's a little bit crazy. I think we're getting bogged down with the detail.

Watts was taken to jail at 11:30 p.m. Wednesday after he was detained for questioning.
Chris Watts case: Everything we know so far about the alleged murders of his wife, daughters

Chris Watts had worked for Anadarko but was fired on Wednesday, the day he was arrested in the case.
Chris Watts murder case: Everything we know so far about the deaths of his wife, daughters

So long as he stays where he is, I'm happy.

 

[stereopticons]

JMO, If CW perceived SW emasculated him, and he was so fed up, why didn't he just leave? He never needed SW's agreement to separate.

Instead of leaving, he became involved in an extra-marital affair with a co-worker. This required him to betray his wife, and also his daughters. It means he lied. It means he gave time, energy and attention to an AP that should have gone to his family. It also means he probably spent money on the AP that should have been used to help support his family.

How does this make CW a "victim"? IMO, it makes him a cheater who lies. A very selfish person.

If it turns out that CW had multiple affairs, then that makes him an entirely different kind of animal.

All JMO.

Power. He may have felt that leaving (and paying alimony, child support, etc) would emasculate him more. He may have felt he needed to regain power in the relationship. Most violence against women is about power. Emasculation is seen as bad because feminine behavior is seen as weak and negative (which is a huge problem on its own).

 

[Mo Thuairim]

That was also my question, as well. Iirc he was detained at the station for questioning earlier that day, though not sure exactly what time (I would MOO it was sometime in the early afternoon, since the Thayers stated in their interview that he left their house late morning to pick his father up at the airport) and he wasn’t actually under arrest until 11:30PM Wednesday night. I am an HR professional and it seems odd that there would be an HR rep on hand at that time of night to render a termination. Hence leading me to believe he would have been termed during normal business hours. (MEO). Which also leads me to further question his reason for termination. I plan to try to do further research into their policies and procedures and code of ethics to see if he may have broken a policy by being a suspect, since there was no reports that he admitted to anything until after he spoke to his father that night. I’ve read other speculations on his term reason in other forums which have me interested on another possible motive which could lead to signs of pre-meditation.

IIRC all day Wed when contacted by media, Anadarko were simply referring to CW as a former employee and just confirmed that he had worked there. So lots of people thought maybe he had worked there some time ago. They announced his firing on Thurs after his arrest but it was effective the previous day (i.e. pre his 11pm arrest). There were a lot of posters on the threads pointing out that Colorado is a 'without cause' state (being in HR you'll know a lot more about this than me!) and that from the moment Anadarko were helping police CW was gone as an employee. There's more detail on this on the early threads but I know it's a lot to read through!

@Asevario Edited to add: Maybe I meant CO is an 'employment at will' state...? Basically you can be sacked at any time without the employer having to give a reason.

 

[cottonweaver]

Amen, sister. Do we ever see scholarly articles bewailing “efeminization” and suggesting that women suffer from not being valued?

Don't want to be pedantic here but basically yes. It's a major theme of the C20th feminist movement, so whilst it would be hard to quantify the academic research I'd hazard a guess that would be in 7 figures, from direct experience.

 

[molly1255]

Yup! I think we all feel that way - just get a divorce!

Exactly. If he wanted to check out that badly, then why not do everyone else a favor and just leave?

 

[MsBetsy]

Carrying over a question from last night before the thread closed, a poster had asked why the defense would be objecting to the hand print measurement, finger prints and cheek swab, the answer is that it may be evidence the prosecution can use against CW, to see if the prints match to marks on the necks of the children. It would make sense for them to prevent the order or at least delay it, such as in the case of The Golden State Killer. The request of pictures of his, well... private parts was delayed for ages because the defense knows that this is incriminating evidence. I'm not even sure if they got it yet, it's been over a month since I kept up with that case. But that would be the only reasonable explanation I can think of. Maybe one of our lawyers could chime in, we haven't heard from them in a while! Jmo

 

[Mosaic]

Thank You @Mosaic for responding to my question ..... I have not yet figured out how to copy a quote so apologies for that. I will read through the guidelines to learn.

What I was asking was if anyone knew where I read CW wanted to follow though with a separation.:

I did read the affidavit yesterday morning which must be why the thought was stuck in my mind. After rereading the affidavit this morning, I notice it states CW wanted to "initiate the separation" (**note** not A separation, but THE separation). After Googling marital separation in the state of CO, it appears to me (I am not an attorney) that there is a required separation process/time line of legal separation (obviously differs between states). I now believe that the future of their marriage had been a discussion between CW & SW for sometime prior, and the 6 week trip to NC....MAY... have been a "trial separation" before formally filing for a legal separation. Taking that into consideration may help with some insight to questions folks have (me included) regarding SW's Facebook post stating what a great husband/father CW was, their pregnancy, timing, etc.....

Like almost everyone, my head and heart wants to understand WHY this guy MAY have (I'm covering bases on the "innocent until proven guilty" ) done what he did to his beautiful wife, unborn son, and absolutely adorable young girls. On the other hand, I pray I never understand WHY because there is just nothing that will get me over the fact that 4 heartbeats were stopped way too short by the hands of another... and then 2 of those placed into vats of crude oil tanks. I've read that in some cultures, soaking in crude oil baths are considered a spa remedy. NOT IN THIS CASE :-(

I am so thankful that during my trip to that area the week before, I only have images of the sporadic neighborhoods, the huge Lexus dealership off Route 25, the oil rigs that dot the landscape....and the beauty of the majestic Rocky Mountains..... and that I don't recall seeing any oil tank storage facilities...

You all are awesome and I am learning so much from you. (off to read how to quote)!!

BBM: on the second page of the Warrantless Arrest Affidavit, paragraph #7, 3rd sentence.
Even if/when we learned all the facts this a tragic and senseless crime. My hearts goes out to both families and their friends...