Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #29

[nwmouse]

I know what you meant but unless a VI can chime in none of us know.

It will probably come out during the trial.

 

[gitana1]

Our VI said she had never even seen him get angry. That was a red flag for me.

That, and the lack of serious girlfriends prior to this. And I have seen no evidence of close friendships outside husbands of his wife's friends. After I posted that that is one of the hallmarks of some of these family annihilators, I noticed there was a post about how he had friends. And yet, so far, the only people who have come forward either publicly or even just on social media, or wherever, were the Thayers, a neighborhood friend, and a couple acquaintances.

Of those, Nick Thayer seemed the closest, often working out and spending tons of time with Chris. he seemed gobsmacked by the allegations but after having Chris in his home overnight when the family was "missing", it is clear he totally believes Chris is guilty of murdering them all.

The rest were people from Colorado who seemed to be friends with the family/couple and not separately with CW, and then a couple acquaintances from high/school college (roommate) who did not seem particularly close.

I get this picture in my head of his family members desperately trying to track down "friends" and asking them to speak up about how great CW was, and how close they were, and those guys kind of saying, "Yeah, I'd rather not get involved."

I'm pretty certain he fits the pattern - nice guy, good family man, normal, but not a lot of super close relationships. Sort of a shadow personality, subsumed by stronger ones around him, since childhood.

 

[Waterdog]

I think we have all seen men who are belittled by their wives. I don’t think most murder. What led CW to murder is something really strange within him .He lived for 34 years apparently never showing to anyone that he is filled with rage, is a liar, and apparently has no conscience.

I am still awestruck that no one has ever commented that he is a liar. I cannot believe that no one saw anything that indicated that things were not ok.

In my experience, you have to be around someone a lot and know them for a long time to catch on to habitual lying. I seem to recall that it was stated he didn’t have a lot of friends. They were also only in CO 5 years of which I get the impression the friends were made via SW and the girls. IMO, no one knew him well enough to know of his true nature but SW. ):

 

[gitana1]

Whaaa? What in the world does that mean? The AP?
I am, again, 4 pages behind.
So I will most likely be reading the answers when I reach the end. Lol
Thanks in advance for the answers.

No. Just a typo.

 

[Waterdog]

That, and the lack of serious girlfriends prior to this. And I have seen no evidence of close friendships outside husbands of his wife's friends. After I posted that that is one of the hallmarks of some of these family annihilators, I noticed there was a post about how he had friends. And yet, so far, the only people who have come forward either publicly or even just on social media, or wherever, were the Thayers, a neighborhood friend, and a couple acquaintances.

Of those, Nick Thayer seemed the closest, often working out and spending tons of time with Chris. he seemed gobsmacked by the allegations but after having Chris in his home overnight when the family was "missing", it is clear he totally believes Chris is guilty of murdering them all.

The rest were people from Colorado who seemed to be friends with the family/couple and not separately with CW, and then a couple acquaintances from high/school college (roommate) who did not seem particularly close.

I get this picture in my head of his family members desperately trying to track down "friends" and asking them to speak up about how great CW was, and how close they were, and those guys kind of saying, "Yeah, I'd rather not get involved."

I'm pretty certain he fits the pattern - nice guy, good family man, normal, but not a lot of super close relationships. Sort of a shadow personality, subsumed by stronger ones around him, since childhood.

Jinx!

 

[Best of What's Around]

Yes, he may have been putting on a nice guy act for the rest of the world. Its common in domestic abuse cases for the abuser to act nicely towards everyone else but behind closed doors he is violent towards the spouse. Then everyone says how nice he was and wouldn't harm a fly so he must have been provoked. Kind of like the pitbull defense?

That is definitely often the case. Though in my opinion, we have evidence here of lying (affair, being quite good at it after the killings...eye contact, etc) but not of previous physical abuse. In the videos, I truly looked and did not witness (in my non-expert opinion) any "walking on eggshells" type behavior from SW nor the children toward their father. The kids looked to have no fear of him at all as did SW. Now, since we know this is not necessary in the limited cases and studies of family annihilators, it does not mean he should be seen as not able to commit these murders. I just don't believe we have any reason to believe there was DV in the house prior to August, IMO.

 

[Johnny1181]

It is very common and a source of constant aggravation to defense counsel across the country.

They may be waiting on some final things. The defense here suggests it is complete but unwarranted delay.

That's possible. The longer the state can keep back discovery, the better for them. I'm not saying that it is purposeful here but it does occur. It's tactic.

Thank you!

 

[tmar]

From last thread: sorry you guys Post, when I sleep.

PommyMommy,
"BBM I think you answered your own question. I would say further, that his lies have served him well enough in the past that he's confident in thinking he can fool a reporter. Maybe he didn't think about the CBI and FBI listening. Big oops."

FlossyMay,
"Right. He got away with all his cheating and everyone thought he was such a wonderful husband and father. I'm sure he thought if he could fool family, friends and neighbors, he could fool anyone".

human,
"I have known a few compulsive liars in my lifetime. No one ever questions them on their lies because people are too polite, That is unless you get into a confrontation with them.

If he is such a liar and he seems to think he can spin the most outrageous of lies, he must do it all of the time.

Did no one ever notice? No one".


He is probably so use to telling fibs, believed by all around him, so continues here, thinking he'll get away with this story.
Then NUA rocks up, and spoils everything.
And 'human' we certainly noticed. some of us, from initial interviews.

 

[gitana1]

changed my mind!

@gitana1 am I correct in that if probable cause is not found for some (or all, unlikely I know) of the charges, the prosecution has the option to submit to the Grand Jury? Did I read this correctly? Also, is it correct that this Judge will not hear the trial? Thank you!

Colorado Rules of Criminal Procedure - JD Porter LLC

at 4(IV)

'If from the evidence it appears to the county court that there is not probable cause to believe that any or all of the offenses charged were committed by the defendant, the county court shall dismiss those counts from the complaint and, if all counts are dismissed, discharge the defendant. Upon a finding of no probable cause, the prosecution may appeal pursuant to Rule 5(a)(4)(V), file a direct information pursuant to Rule 5(a)(4)(VI) charging the same offense(s), or submit the matter to a grand jury, but may not file a subsequent felony complaint charging the same offenses.'

Apparently they can do that but I believe that's super rare. And unlikely to happen here for a coupe reasons.

In many cases the judge who deal with some of the earlier, pre-trial stuff will not be the same one who tries the actual case. It will be assigned to a "long cause" judge.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I’m not concerned at all about LE having enough evidence to be able to tie CW to the oil field and the disposal of the bodies and the killing of SW. What we need to know is if there is enough (and tight) evidence to tie him to the murder of the children. I assume there is, and they just know more than we do. Let’s hope.

Yes, I think there will be more evidence to prove this, but IMO there is already a significant amount of circumstantial evidence to reasonably conclude CW was the only murderer in the house that night.

 

[Waterdog]

I am still trying to understand how he was 'belittled.' I watched the Santa tape again. She was directing the video so she told Santa where to sit and what was going on, so they could make the video. I didn't see it as belittling.

He was supposed to come back in as Santa, and bring the phone, to take pix with. He left it on the car in the garage. MISTAKE on his part. So as she is still live streaming, she says, with a big smile, obviously joking, 'he doesn't listen' grumble grumble...., is that seriously considered 'belittling' someone?

I think my husband listens to about half of what I say to him, and I tell him that too, but he doesn't feel belittled by that...he is proud of it, lol... he tells me that after 37 yrs, I'm lucky he listens to half...

I think she belittled the “genius” in passive-aggressive ways. If he watched the Santa video afterwards I guarantee you he felt kicked below the belt.

It’s become apparent they were both getting under each other’s skin.

Moo IMO ...

 

[Seattle1]

↑@Mo Thuairim said:
Finally! Defence's responses are up...
Colorado Judicial Branch
ETA: Defence don't yet have coroner's report

↑@Johnny1181 Thank you for this! Can any legal experts weigh in to why the defense attorneys have not received the coroner's report yet?
#1146

Thanks for alert on motion decision C13: Defense requested investigation of the Prosecution for allegedly leaking info to media; Court denied request; Defense requested court re-consider their request for investigation; and court denied 2nd request...!

As to autopsy report, do we even know whether or not report is entirely complete, and if report released to prosecution as well? I've only read that Defense alleges Prosecution has it and has not shared it with Defense, which I find highly improbable. We do know however that prosecution made proactive motion with court to get in front of CORA not to disclose autopsy information automatically to the public per the open records act. I don't recall if Defense has weighed in on this request or not. MOO

EDIT: Colorado Open Records Act (CORA)

 

[Deleted member 230544]

I hope so

Not to be morbid but given CW's predicament, even if he was cleared of murdering his daughters, he is guilty of murdering SW and tampering with bodies so wouldn't that be life in prison? Sincere question. If it was the case, maybe CW would welcome death rather then be in prison for life? Sorry, morbid subject.

 

[whisperOFwings]

It would certainly add a new, unexpected twist to this case...lol

Very true. But in my opinion Occam's razor applies and it was probably a careless error as I said before in using stock forms and not taking the time to personalize to the case. Not a good look for the defense though lol IMO

There are templates we create and then re-use a lot. Just use "find and replace" for names. Pronouns sometimes get missed.

Oh, ok, thank you. Whew My mind was racing for a moment.

 

[whisperOFwings]

It's a terrible error to be made with all the rumors out there MOO

Yes it is lol

 

[bluesneakers]

Our VI said she had never even seen him get angry. That was a red flag for me.

So they were both the type to let things fester. Unhealthy.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Not to be morbid but given CW's predicament, even if he was cleared of murdering his daughters, he is guilty of murdering SW and tampering with bodies so wouldn't that be life in prison? Sincere question. If it was the case, maybe CW would welcome death rather then be in prison for life? Sorry, morbid subject.

I don't think getting a life sentence means actual life in prison...for someone in their 30s, they could be out in their 50s. I think the defense will argue that SW's murder should not be considered first degree and try to get it down to a lesser homicide or manslaughter conviction if they are able. That said, I do not believe this is how it will play out in the end - I think he will be found guilty on all counts. Unless some amazing new evidence comes to light, he looks incredibly guilty by a great deal of damning circumstantial evidence of first degree murder on all, and the other felonies you mention (which presumably carry much lighter sentences).

 

[Johnny1181]

I think she belittled the “genius” in passive aggressive ways. If he watched the Santa video afterwards I guarantee you he felt kicked below the belt.

It’s become apparent they were both getting under each other’s skin.

Moo IMO ...

Perhaps she felt kicked below the belt as her husband didn't seem at all to participate in calming or reassuring the babies during any of the events taking place. To take part in parenting and being a spouse.

For example.... if I'm in a Santa suit (that perhaps my wife "demanded") and my babies are freaking out, my wife seems out of her element and unable to handle the unexpected and disappointing reaction to Santa... and my babies are looking for Daddy... I would take off the beard, hug and comfort my babies, tell my wife well we tried! And make sure the kids knew Daddy was right there and tell them I was sorry for scaring them.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 230544]

What is this in reference to? What did the court deny?
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...RDER (C13) DENYING DEFENDANT'S MOTION D35.pdf

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Which document refers to "she" can someone post the link specifically? TIA