Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #39

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thanks for double checking. Okay so in his story he looks at the monitor, and we're not sure if it was split-screen or multiple channels, but it sounds more like channels?

We still have the same problem of what you'd do if you saw one child sprawled out on the bed strangely. Would you run to that child's room or would you check the other child on the other channel first? If the former, surely this is further indication that CW is lying in his version of the story?
I'm almost certain it was split-screen and/or could be set to automatic toggle? I just don't have the link, so JMO.
MOO
 
Last edited:
I agree. I would be surprised if they remained sealed - and even if the judge rules in favor of sealing, I would expect that ruling to be appealed (and likely overturned).

I guess we just wait and see...

If that scenario did end up happening, what do you think the approximate time frame would be for the appeal and ruling to overturn?

I’m clueless if this would be weeks or months or?
 
Thanks @PommyMommy for doing such a fantastic job with keeping the media thread updated.

Iirc last night I read there that CW has no media access and only has access to a “communal newspaper”...is this a jail newspaper or a local newspaper or what? If it’s a local Frederick paper I have some comments.
 
Thanks @PommyMommy for doing such a fantastic job with keeping the media thread updated.

Iirc last night I read there that CW has no media access and only has access to a “communal newspaper”...is this a jail newspaper or a local newspaper or what? If it’s a local Frederick paper I have some comments.
You're welcome. :)

I don't think it's been said what particular newspaper it is, but I'd guess local. Call the jail, lol!

MOO
 
I think he said he saw Bella was “blue” because he’s an idiot, and he thought that sounded realistic. I don’t think he could see that in a baby monitor which looks bluish anyway. Certainly there would have been time to save CeCe had she gone suddenly blue though. The fact that he claimed that this happened in a moment has him busted as far as I’m concerned.

It is possible that after they were dead for a while they turned to what he thought was a bluish color but bodies don’t suddenly turn blue. The subtlety of color alone is negligible to detect in a baby monitor.
Various professionals have told us that bodies don't turn blue like that.
 
I think he said he saw Bella was “blue” because he’s an idiot, and he thought that sounded realistic. I don’t think he could see that in a baby monitor which looks bluish anyway. Certainly there would have been time to save CeCe had she gone suddenly blue though. The fact that he claimed that this happened in a moment has him busted as far as I’m concerned.

It is possible that after they were dead for a while they turned to what he thought was a bluish color but bodies don’t suddenly turn blue. The subtlety of color alone is negligible to detect in a baby monitor.

I think you may be right. I don't believe he ever looked at them once he killed them-that he couldn't. I think he averted his eyes while he carried thrm out and put them in the tanks. And he was just going off what he has seen on tv when he said "blue."
 
So many things on this case make no sense- but then again, murder doesn't make sense either, so maybe it's just that a sane person can't understand an insane one.

But I'm just putting this out there- from the beginning, it's been odd to me that it went down the way it did. I could see him losing it and killing SW in the middle of a 4am argument, I guess, although he has no history of violence that we know of, and it really makes no sense. People divorce all the time, very few kill their spouses to end the marriage. I can't honestly see SW killing her babies, but to be honest, I can't see him doing it either. They just always looked so happy together, all of them. Normal, with a bit of bickering or nagging, sure, but that's married parenting life. But if it was premeditated or he killed the girls earlier, why did he leave the crime scene such an obvious mess? Why didn't he have things thought out better, for coverup? If he killed the girls earlier, and then waited for SW to get home, he would have had time to plan how to conceal it, probably thought through all the details- like calling to postpone/cancel her dr appointment, or set the stage so it looked like she left him or at least they were burglarized. And yet, he didn't. And if he killed SW first, then why kill the girls at all? He could have just loaded everyone in the vehicle, called in to work taking a day off, propped SW with a pillow and blanket and told the girls (in their carseats, unable to reach mommy) that she was napping because she got in late, then drove somewhere and dumped her, and claimed she walked off, drowned, whatever. He did none of that. It's like the whole thing happened and he was just in shock.

His behavior reminded me so much of when one of my kids does something they shouldn't, and another one covers up for them. Like they're playing with grandma's glass dog figurines and one gets dropped and shatters, and they all lie and say "we weren't, it just fell" because no one wants to see their sibling they love get sent to time out.

I honestly wonder- what if when SW's flight was delayed, the AP came over because CW thought SW wasn't going to get home until the next morning? What if SW walked in on them, and that's why the sheets were ripped off the bed? What if they all three got into an "emotional conversation"- and then while SW and CW were arguing, because he does love her, and unlike what he told AP, he wasn't leaving her, which made AP mad seeing him not standing up for her and kicking SW out, AP was the one that went down the hall and strangled the little girls, to punish CW for not choosing her, and CW and SW saw THAT on the monitor and ran down there? (I think it's possible he saw a woman strangling one of the girls and the girl dying, although he didn't realize she was blue until he made it into the room, and in his mind, in grief-shock state, he just combined the two images into one).

Stay with me- but if that's the case, then I could see SW and AP getting into a fight, obviously. If CW loves AP, or heaven forbid, she is also pregnant (wouldn't be the first time we've read of men getting a wife and mistress preggo at the same time), and he intervened to protect AP from SW (which explains why he wasn't trying to resuscitate the girls, because he was dealing with the other drama), and then killed SW, it might explain the last minute, poorly thought out attempt at cover up. And the weird way he totally confessed to all of it and then changed his story slightly to say he didn't kill the girls- if he was trying to cover up for AP. And if he knew the hands around the little girls' necks were a female's and therefore smaller than his own hands (which would show up in the coroner's report), then he decided to blame their deaths on SW, who was already dead, and leave AP completely out of it, so she'd stay out of prison. He wouldn't be the first person to take the blame on a crime someone else did, as a cover up. Especially if he felt guilt that the whole scenario was his fault, for having the affair to begin with.

I know it's random, but it doesn't seem that far fetched to me. He could have sent AP out the backdoor, through the construction site (a lot of people having affairs park a bit away and sneak in so not to be seen by neighbors), back to her car, and tried to clean up. And then, because he felt disloyal to SW, he put on the shirt she gave him, as a way to try to connect to her and make it up to her for killing her. And it would explain why he seemed so detached and calm- if he was trying to just hold it together for the sake of the AP and protecting her, and was in shock at how everything had gone down.

And on another random note, I wonder if he put the girls' bodies into the tanks to protect them from getting dug up and drug around by wild animals, and wanted to do the same with SW, but SW wouldn't fit. Like a burial at sea of sorts, but last minute and panicking. The whole thing just seems really erratic and spontaneous. AP is the wild card. But her presence in the house that morning helps make some of the weird "why" moments make sense.
 
Thanks for double checking. Okay so in his story he looks at the monitor, and we're not sure if it was split-screen or multiple channels, but it sounds more like channels?

We still have the same problem of what you'd do if you saw one child sprawled out on the bed strangely. Would you run to that child's room or would you check the other child on the other channel first? If the former, surely this is further indication that CW is lying in his version of the story?

Here are a couple of baby monitor videos that I found very interesting from SW's fb.

This one appears to show SW's nightstand with baby monitor (at 3:30), and the monitor can be seen switching between the two rooms:
Shanann Watts

View of baby monitor with single room view:
Shanann Watts

View of baby monitor, switching between the two rooms:
Shanann Watts

Jmo.

Edited for clarity.
 
Last edited:
So many things on this case make no sense- but then again, murder doesn't make sense either, so maybe it's just that a sane person can't understand an insane one.

But I'm just putting this out there- from the beginning, it's been odd to me that it went down the way it did. I could see him losing it and killing SW in the middle of a 4am argument, I guess, although he has no history of violence that we know of, and it really makes no sense. People divorce all the time, very few kill their spouses to end the marriage. I can't honestly see SW killing her babies, but to be honest, I can't see him doing it either. They just always looked so happy together, all of them. Normal, with a bit of bickering or nagging, sure, but that's married parenting life. But if it was premeditated or he killed the girls earlier, why did he leave the crime scene such an obvious mess? Why didn't he have things thought out better, for coverup? If he killed the girls earlier, and then waited for SW to get home, he would have had time to plan how to conceal it, probably thought through all the details- like calling to postpone/cancel her dr appointment, or set the stage so it looked like she left him or at least they were burglarized. And yet, he didn't. And if he killed SW first, then why kill the girls at all? He could have just loaded everyone in the vehicle, called in to work taking a day off, propped SW with a pillow and blanket and told the girls (in their carseats, unable to reach mommy) that she was napping because she got in late, then drove somewhere and dumped her, and claimed she walked off, drowned, whatever. He did none of that. It's like the whole thing happened and he was just in shock.

His behavior reminded me so much of when one of my kids does something they shouldn't, and another one covers up for them. Like they're playing with grandma's glass dog figurines and one gets dropped and shatters, and they all lie and say "we weren't, it just fell" because no one wants to see their sibling they love get sent to time out.

I honestly wonder- what if when SW's flight was delayed, the AP came over because CW thought SW wasn't going to get home until the next morning? What if SW walked in on them, and that's why the sheets were ripped off the bed? What if they all three got into an "emotional conversation"- and then while SW and CW were arguing, because he does love her, and unlike what he told AP, he wasn't leaving her, which made AP mad seeing him not standing up for her and kicking SW out, AP was the one that went down the hall and strangled the little girls, to punish CW for not choosing her, and CW and SW saw THAT on the monitor and ran down there? (I think it's possible he saw a woman strangling one of the girls and the girl dying, although he didn't realize she was blue until he made it into the room, and in his mind, in grief-shock state, he just combined the two images into one).

Stay with me- but if that's the case, then I could see SW and AP getting into a fight, obviously. If CW loves AP, or heaven forbid, she is also pregnant (wouldn't be the first time we've read of men getting a wife and mistress preggo at the same time), and he intervened to protect AP from SW (which explains why he wasn't trying to resuscitate the girls, because he was dealing with the other drama), and then killed SW, it might explain the last minute, poorly thought out attempt at cover up. And the weird way he totally confessed to all of it and then changed his story slightly to say he didn't kill the girls- if he was trying to cover up for AP. And if he knew the hands around the little girls' necks were a female's and therefore smaller than his own hands (which would show up in the coroner's report), then he decided to blame their deaths on SW, who was already dead, and leave AP completely out of it, so she'd stay out of prison. He wouldn't be the first person to take the blame on a crime someone else did, as a cover up. Especially if he felt guilt that the whole scenario was his fault, for having the affair to begin with.

I know it's random, but it doesn't seem that far fetched to me. He could have sent AP out the backdoor, through the construction site (a lot of people having affairs park a bit away and sneak in so not to be seen by neighbors), back to her car, and tried to clean up. And then, because he felt disloyal to SW, he put on the shirt she gave him, as a way to try to connect to her and make it up to her for killing her. And it would explain why he seemed so detached and calm- if he was trying to just hold it together for the sake of the AP and protecting her, and was in shock at how everything had gone down.

And on another random note, I wonder if he put the girls' bodies into the tanks to protect them from getting dug up and drug around by wild animals, and wanted to do the same with SW, but SW wouldn't fit. Like a burial at sea of sorts, but last minute and panicking. The whole thing just seems really erratic and spontaneous. AP is the wild card. But her presence in the house that morning helps make some of the weird "why" moments make sense.

I think if there were any signs that the AP was involved, we'd see a change in charges and an arrest-though I totally get why you would speculate that. It truly IS hard to imagine CW doing what he did but, then, that's what people say a lot about family annhilators.
 
So many things on this case make no sense- but then again, murder doesn't make sense either, so maybe it's just that a sane person can't understand an insane one.

But I'm just putting this out there- from the beginning, it's been odd to me that it went down the way it did. I could see him losing it and killing SW in the middle of a 4am argument, I guess, although he has no history of violence that we know of, and it really makes no sense. People divorce all the time, very few kill their spouses to end the marriage. I can't honestly see SW killing her babies, but to be honest, I can't see him doing it either. They just always looked so happy together, all of them. Normal, with a bit of bickering or nagging, sure, but that's married parenting life. But if it was premeditated or he killed the girls earlier, why did he leave the crime scene such an obvious mess? Why didn't he have things thought out better, for coverup? If he killed the girls earlier, and then waited for SW to get home, he would have had time to plan how to conceal it, probably thought through all the details- like calling to postpone/cancel her dr appointment, or set the stage so it looked like she left him or at least they were burglarized. And yet, he didn't. And if he killed SW first, then why kill the girls at all? He could have just loaded everyone in the vehicle, called in to work taking a day off, propped SW with a pillow and blanket and told the girls (in their carseats, unable to reach mommy) that she was napping because she got in late, then drove somewhere and dumped her, and claimed she walked off, drowned, whatever. He did none of that. It's like the whole thing happened and he was just in shock.

His behavior reminded me so much of when one of my kids does something they shouldn't, and another one covers up for them. Like they're playing with grandma's glass dog figurines and one gets dropped and shatters, and they all lie and say "we weren't, it just fell" because no one wants to see their sibling they love get sent to time out.

I honestly wonder- what if when SW's flight was delayed, the AP came over because CW thought SW wasn't going to get home until the next morning? What if SW walked in on them, and that's why the sheets were ripped off the bed? What if they all three got into an "emotional conversation"- and then while SW and CW were arguing, because he does love her, and unlike what he told AP, he wasn't leaving her, which made AP mad seeing him not standing up for her and kicking SW out, AP was the one that went down the hall and strangled the little girls, to punish CW for not choosing her, and CW and SW saw THAT on the monitor and ran down there? (I think it's possible he saw a woman strangling one of the girls and the girl dying, although he didn't realize she was blue until he made it into the room, and in his mind, in grief-shock state, he just combined the two images into one).

Stay with me- but if that's the case, then I could see SW and AP getting into a fight, obviously. If CW loves AP, or heaven forbid, she is also pregnant (wouldn't be the first time we've read of men getting a wife and mistress preggo at the same time), and he intervened to protect AP from SW (which explains why he wasn't trying to resuscitate the girls, because he was dealing with the other drama), and then killed SW, it might explain the last minute, poorly thought out attempt at cover up. And the weird way he totally confessed to all of it and then changed his story slightly to say he didn't kill the girls- if he was trying to cover up for AP. And if he knew the hands around the little girls' necks were a female's and therefore smaller than his own hands (which would show up in the coroner's report), then he decided to blame their deaths on SW, who was already dead, and leave AP completely out of it, so she'd stay out of prison. He wouldn't be the first person to take the blame on a crime someone else did, as a cover up. Especially if he felt guilt that the whole scenario was his fault, for having the affair to begin with.

I know it's random, but it doesn't seem that far fetched to me. He could have sent AP out the backdoor, through the construction site (a lot of people having affairs park a bit away and sneak in so not to be seen by neighbors), back to her car, and tried to clean up. And then, because he felt disloyal to SW, he put on the shirt she gave him, as a way to try to connect to her and make it up to her for killing her. And it would explain why he seemed so detached and calm- if he was trying to just hold it together for the sake of the AP and protecting her, and was in shock at how everything had gone down.

And on another random note, I wonder if he put the girls' bodies into the tanks to protect them from getting dug up and drug around by wild animals, and wanted to do the same with SW, but SW wouldn't fit. Like a burial at sea of sorts, but last minute and panicking. The whole thing just seems really erratic and spontaneous. AP is the wild card. But her presence in the house that morning helps make some of the weird "why" moments make sense.

Great post! It's good to have you here with us.
I haven't put much thought into CW covering for AP, but it makes sense.
 
If that scenario did end up happening, what do you think the approximate time frame would be for the appeal and ruling to overturn?

I’m clueless if this would be weeks or months or?
Unfortunately I don’t have a clue... I’ve never dealt with CORA before and I’m sure the judge in this case is going to dot all “I”s and cross all “t”s
 
How about this;

The change in CW's behavior (distant, according to SW) and the closing of his FB page are markers of when his planning began. Maybe not planning anything extreme yet, but planning changes. Sometime after they get home from NC, but before SW leaves for Arizona, something happens, or is said, which makes his plans become more extreme and sets them into motion. In turn he says something to her, while she is in Arizona which causes her to not feel well and perhaps be aprehensive. The delayed flight is the final trigger, because it eliminates three or more hours he had planned on, and he probably blamed her. Now horrible things begin to happen. I believe the girls were killed first, to punish SW when she arrived home.

I also believe there are triggers, if we look for them. The first trigger was his appearance and people being more attracted to him, increasing his confidence. The second trigger was the affair. The third trigger was, coincidentally, the third pregnancy. It countered the elation of his affair and made him feel trapped. The fourth trigger was something that was said,or happened, before SW went to Arizona (Maybe she told him they needed to discuss separation when she returned). The final trigger was the delayed flight. Each trigger moved things forward and led to the next trigger until the horrible, final outcome occurred.

I mostly wrote this to get things straight in my head. And I edited it a couple of times. I would appreciate any comments.

It’s significant that he spent that last week in N.C. with them too. Something may have happened to fuel his resolve had he just been toying with the idea before. He had experienced a month of freedom and came back into the family fold that last week in N.C. and he may have felt more trapped and desperate.

Then once they were back home for a few days together, he could have become even more agitated-so everything was building up. No wonder she felt ill before going home that night.

One thing that isn’t discussed much is the fact that Bella was supposed to start kindergarten THAT Monday and not the NEXT Monday that he claimed to the press. Could that have added to pressure as well? Surely that’s a milestone day for most parents and Bella would have naturally eagerly anticipated this too.

Had she started school and suddenly been absent later in the week, the school may have notified them (my kids school calls any day they don’t show up). In not showing up for her first day, it’s kind of like she hasn’t started. Some kids don’t come to school the first few days and this was an early, August start date so perhaps the school wouldn’t have been concerned, but had she started and then not come in on following days they may have made inquiries with the parents.

Not sure if he was bright enough to consider this, as he clearly wasn’t caring about SW’s missed doctors appointment. However, it’s my understanding that this was a private school, so a deposit had likely been made for tuition, and they were eventually expecting her to show up.

Just some other triggers to consider.
 
Last edited:
<modsnip>
I am a bit puzzled by some people who can believe that he killed them all and dumped his little girls in crude oil vats and was having an affair with a woman but just cannot accept that he had a same sex affair.

Absolutely agree! I think its quite possible that CW was enjoying his buff new body and the attention it was getting him, probably from men and women. Perhaps he was experimenting and wanted to try different things. IMO. I don't know if the gay male AP is legit or not, but if he has handed over CW's dna evidence left on towels:eek: to LE, AND its proven to belong to CW, then the male AP is likely legit. MOO.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
How about this;

The change in CW's behavior (distant, according to SW) and the closing of his FB page are markers of when his planning began. Maybe not planning anything extreme yet, but planning changes. Sometime after they get home from NC, but before SW leaves for Arizona, something happens, or is said, which makes his plans become more extreme and sets them into motion. In turn he says something to her, while she is in Arizona which causes her to not feel well and perhaps be aprehensive. The delayed flight is the final trigger, because it eliminates three or more hours he had planned on, and he probably blamed her. Now horrible things begin to happen. I believe the girls were killed first, to punish SW when she arrived home.

I also believe there are triggers, if we look for them. The first trigger was his appearance and people being more attracted to him, increasing his confidence. The second trigger was the affair. The third trigger was, coincidentally, the third pregnancy. It countered the elation of his affair and made him feel trapped. The fourth trigger was something that was said,or happened, before SW went to Arizona (Maybe she told him they needed to discuss separation when she returned). The final trigger was the delayed flight. Each trigger moved things forward and led to the next trigger until the horrible, final outcome occurred.

I mostly wrote this to get things straight in my head. And I edited it a couple of times. I would appreciate any comments.

I agree 100% with your theory. It also fits, in my mind. He's been charged with three murders, after deliberation. He had time to think before killing all three (and Nico). How much time isn't specified, and it doesn't need to be for purposes of the charges.

We will hopefully learn how long he had been thinking about his "exit strategy". I agree with what you say on when this line of thinking likely began - because it fits with what we know at this time, and that's when SW began to notice his distant behavior and I think he knew what he was going to do when he closed his FB account.

JMO
 
So many things on this case make no sense- but then again, murder doesn't make sense either, so maybe it's just that a sane person can't understand an insane one.

But I'm just putting this out there- from the beginning, it's been odd to me that it went down the way it did. I could see him losing it and killing SW in the middle of a 4am argument, I guess, although he has no history of violence that we know of, and it really makes no sense. People divorce all the time, very few kill their spouses to end the marriage. I can't honestly see SW killing her babies, but to be honest, I can't see him doing it either. They just always looked so happy together, all of them. Normal, with a bit of bickering or nagging, sure, but that's married parenting life. But if it was premeditated or he killed the girls earlier, why did he leave the crime scene such an obvious mess? Why didn't he have things thought out better, for coverup? If he killed the girls earlier, and then waited for SW to get home, he would have had time to plan how to conceal it, probably thought through all the details- like calling to postpone/cancel her dr appointment, or set the stage so it looked like she left him or at least they were burglarized. And yet, he didn't. And if he killed SW first, then why kill the girls at all? He could have just loaded everyone in the vehicle, called in to work taking a day off, propped SW with a pillow and blanket and told the girls (in their carseats, unable to reach mommy) that she was napping because she got in late, then drove somewhere and dumped her, and claimed she walked off, drowned, whatever. He did none of that. It's like the whole thing happened and he was just in shock.

His behavior reminded me so much of when one of my kids does something they shouldn't, and another one covers up for them. Like they're playing with grandma's glass dog figurines and one gets dropped and shatters, and they all lie and say "we weren't, it just fell" because no one wants to see their sibling they love get sent to time out.

I honestly wonder- what if when SW's flight was delayed, the AP came over because CW thought SW wasn't going to get home until the next morning? What if SW walked in on them, and that's why the sheets were ripped off the bed? What if they all three got into an "emotional conversation"- and then while SW and CW were arguing, because he does love her, and unlike what he told AP, he wasn't leaving her, which made AP mad seeing him not standing up for her and kicking SW out, AP was the one that went down the hall and strangled the little girls, to punish CW for not choosing her, and CW and SW saw THAT on the monitor and ran down there? (I think it's possible he saw a woman strangling one of the girls and the girl dying, although he didn't realize she was blue until he made it into the room, and in his mind, in grief-shock state, he just combined the two images into one).

Stay with me- but if that's the case, then I could see SW and AP getting into a fight, obviously. If CW loves AP, or heaven forbid, she is also pregnant (wouldn't be the first time we've read of men getting a wife and mistress preggo at the same time), and he intervened to protect AP from SW (which explains why he wasn't trying to resuscitate the girls, because he was dealing with the other drama), and then killed SW, it might explain the last minute, poorly thought out attempt at cover up. And the weird way he totally confessed to all of it and then changed his story slightly to say he didn't kill the girls- if he was trying to cover up for AP. And if he knew the hands around the little girls' necks were a female's and therefore smaller than his own hands (which would show up in the coroner's report), then he decided to blame their deaths on SW, who was already dead, and leave AP completely out of it, so she'd stay out of prison. He wouldn't be the first person to take the blame on a crime someone else did, as a cover up. Especially if he felt guilt that the whole scenario was his fault, for having the affair to begin with.

I know it's random, but it doesn't seem that far fetched to me. He could have sent AP out the backdoor, through the construction site (a lot of people having affairs park a bit away and sneak in so not to be seen by neighbors), back to her car, and tried to clean up. And then, because he felt disloyal to SW, he put on the shirt she gave him, as a way to try to connect to her and make it up to her for killing her. And it would explain why he seemed so detached and calm- if he was trying to just hold it together for the sake of the AP and protecting her, and was in shock at how everything had gone down.

And on another random note, I wonder if he put the girls' bodies into the tanks to protect them from getting dug up and drug around by wild animals, and wanted to do the same with SW, but SW wouldn't fit. Like a burial at sea of sorts, but last minute and panicking. The whole thing just seems really erratic and spontaneous. AP is the wild card. But her presence in the house that morning helps make some of the weird "why" moments make sense.
None of it makes sense does it. However when I was little, with 4 brothers and sisters, we always blamed each other when something got broken, lol. And, let's hope the AP has a good alibi for that night, I'll bet she's been quizzed on that by now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
207
Guests online
4,095
Total visitors
4,302

Forum statistics

Threads
592,155
Messages
17,964,346
Members
228,705
Latest member
mhenderson
Back
Top