Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes and her willingness to post these less than perfect family moment videos contradict the constant birage of comments that she wanted to only project the perfect life image.
I don't understand why SW felt the need to post them at all. Were her "people" really needing to interrupt their own family time on Christmas Eve just to see the scared, crying Watts children? CeCe was crying in the other room nearly the entire time and Bella made it clear she didn't want to be on camera after Santa left. It was difficult to watch and it left me wondering what kinds of demands her employer was imposing on SW.

JMO
 
I see the dynamics of their relationships much different.
jmo

This is an interesting topic for me, Tippy. One that deserves a little more reading and research on my part.

I wonder if SM was as prevalent before LP's death, people would have a different opinion of her personality and relationship with SP? I have seen mostly photos of her, and really have no idea what she was like. I also wonder if we had only photos (no SM videos) of SW, if we would have a different opinion of her and her relationship with CW as well?
 
And if he hadn't done the interviews then the public would've been like, "OMG, his wife and kids are missing and he dorsn't even care enough to publicly plead for their safe return."

When I saw an update on the Amber Alert for SW and the children, I did not expect the husband to do "interviews" but to simply plead for their safe return. I was shocked and surprised by his calm demeanor, so I immediately suspected him. JMO
 
This is an interesting topic for me, Tippy. One that deserves a little more reading and research on my part.

I wonder if SM was as prevalent before LP's death, people would have a different opinion of her personality and relationship with SP? I have seen mostly photos of her, and really have no idea what she was like. I also wonder if we had only photos (no SM videos) of SW, if we would have a different opinion of her and her relationship with CW as well?
We absolutely would have a different opinion in both cases.

I can’t think of a murder case where we have had this much video to pore over. We feel like we know her in a way, based on these videos.

There is an obvious downside here, as one can never fully “know” a person based on the image projected in videos.

As a result, she is much more “real” to us than Laci was. This, despite the fact that both were innocent victims.
 
Last edited:
And if he hadn't done the interviews then the public would've been like, "OMG, his wife and kids are missing and he dorsn't even care enough to publicly plead for their safe return." When there is a disappearance, it's kind of Disppearing 101 to have a close family member to appeal on TV. When my pregnant sister and my toddler nephew disappeared, LE didn't even give my brother-in-law a choice. They basically said, "You have to put out a message and speak for them. The cameras will be here in 5." We asked what they would have done if he'd refused and the chief said that, during the press conference, they would have stated that he'd refused an interview and that would've made him look bad. So there's that.
If your family was missing why wouldn’t someone want to do an interview and sound the alarm, get publicity to help in finding them?
I don't understand why SW felt the need to post them at all. Were her "people" really needing to interrupt their own family time on Christmas Eve just to see the scared, crying Watts children? CeCe was crying in the other room nearly the entire time and Bella made it clear she didn't want to be on camera after Santa left. It was difficult to watch and it left me wondering what kinds of demands her employer was imposing on SW.

JMO
Most likely she was posting for her family who lived far away. As to her followers who logged on, they must have set their alerts to be notified whenever she went live. I would not have watched, I don’t even want to watch them now.
 
And if he hadn't done the interviews then the public would've been like, "OMG, his wife and kids are missing and he dorsn't even care enough to publicly plead for their safe return." When there is a disappearance, it's kind of Disppearing 101 to have a close family member to appeal on TV. When my pregnant sister and my toddler nephew disappeared, LE didn't even give my brother-in-law a choice. They basically said, "You have to put out a message and speak for them. The cameras will be here in 5." We asked what they would have done if he'd refused and the chief said that, during the press conference, they would have stated that he'd refused an interview and that would've made him look bad. So there's that.
Agreed. However, I do believe he could have tearfully read just a brief prepared statement. This assumes of course that he was in mourning for his family. But since I am convinced he was not (IMO), he clearly thought he could fool the public with 3 media interviews. Experts say that took arrogance and great confidence in his own ability to lie. He did have amazing eye contact, I will give him that. IMO
 
Last edited:
I think the "biggest mistake" was to live stream it when in reality both of the kids were just overwhelmed by this entire situation and already very exhausted so they rather needed their parents not a smartphone chasing all of their actions. I really believe Shannan just wanted a "happy christmas" for them with all the magic she probably felt when she was a little child but this didn't work and she was clearly disappointed by it. What I could totally relate to. I don't know if this makes me a bad parent too. Maybe sometimes we all are "bad parents" because we do not act like we are supposed to.

What I need to admit is that this video should have never entered the internet. And I felt very sorry for the little girls especially knowing that they will never have another christmas again.

No one is perfect! The girls were getting presents from Santa, right? I wonder if she told her parents that she would try to have them join in to view it? It looks like she was Face Timing with her parents (Dad was seen on her screen.), but may be it was inadvertently uploaded to Live Stream it?
 
My original points in black. Your responses in red. My responses in blue.
  • CW is the only one who had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Shanann and the girls - SW also had the means, motive and opportunity to kill the girls What would be her motive?
  • CW was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, possibly as long as 6 – 10 months - Many people have affairs doesn't make you a killer, this could also be the reason why SW killed the girls It is one of the classic motives of a family annihilator. One of our VI’s emphasized that he wanted out of the marriage. Why would SW kill her daughters because CW was having an affair?
  • Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, hadn’t been feeling well, was likely exhausted, and arrived home at 2 am - CW was likely sleeping and exhausted from watching the girls while is wife was away He was apparently not too tired to do some grilling and get on Twitter. CW claimed he saw SW when she came home. “It was quick.”
  • CW confessed to strangling Shanann, killing her and their unborn son - in a rage because SW killed his daughters He is a proven liar with no credibility whatsoever. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense. A loving father does not cram his toddlers into a crude oil tank if he didn't kill them.
  • CW confessed that CeCe was also strangled - CW accused SW of this The autopsy results will hopefully tell us whether he was honest about how he killed her. But again, he is a proven liar with no credibility at this point. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense, and his story about the monitor will prove he is lying. :rolleyes:
  • CW did not call 911, hit the panic button on the home security system or yell for help from his neighbors How do you account for the fact that if SW killed her babies, he did absolutely nothing to save them?
  • CW did not make any attempt to resuscitate or save the lives of his wife and children - we don't know that he didn't make attempts to resuscitate them. Common sense tells me that if he didn’t call 911, he made no effort to save them. Common sense tells me that anyone who dumps their toddlers into oil tanks was detached and had no love for them at all.
  • CW confessed that in less than an hour and ½ later (from 4 am), he loaded all their bodies into his truck. How was he even able to function if he just saw his babies being murdered? It is preposterous to believe that someone whose children were murdered could even walk or drive at all, let alone load up three dead bodies and head to work. The sheer disrespect he shows for the bodies of his wife and babies will infuriate the jury. He needs to take a plea if there is one offered.
  • CW confessed to driving with their dead bodies for 45 minutes (or so) to dispose of the evidence - same point as above same point as above
  • CW confessed to burying his wife and their unborn son in the dirt - to avoid being accused of killing all of them Agree, he was covering his *advertiser censored*. Would an innocent person need to cover their *advertiser censored*? He could have avoided being accused by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened. The only time this happens is when the suspect is guilty of the crime.
  • CW confessed to dumping his 3 and 4-year-old daughters into crude oil tanks, possibly cramming them through 8" hatches - to avoid being accused of killing them He could have avoided that by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened.
  • CW gave three interviews the next day and showed no signs of sleeplessness, no signs of grief, no signs of a psychotic episode - this is not fact others see it different Every expert I have heard from and commented on the case agrees...Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Criminologists, etc.
  • CW’s actions following the murders show consciousness of guilt – possibly According to our legal experts, DEFINITELY. According to many, many others using plain old common sense, DEFINITELY.
  • LE stated that there is no evidence that the deaths of the girls were committed by anyone but CW - in their preliminary findings we don't know what they have found since If there has been any exculpatory evidence discovered, there should be signs of that. He is still in jail and his charges have not changed. He is charged with 5 counts of first degree murder.
  • CW has no history of mental illness (as far as we know at this point) - the same goes for SW. Yes, the same goes for Shanann, but she is not on trial as much as some people want to make that so.
MOO, except for what is in red font.

Yes! Thank you for that detailed, rational, intelligent post. When you lay things out like this, it makes it much easier to connect the dots. You are a rockstar!
 
Thank you for sharing your opinion, its always interesting to hear varying points of view.
My interpretation of the Santa video is different to yours, however I try to remain open-minded.
I don't find anything remotely funny about children that are scared.
Neither do I.
I could never watch 'funniest home show videos' because children were/are often the butt of the joke when they'd have a fall off a bike, trampoline, were scared of clowns/animals/scary noises etc.
Those shows ratings went through the roof for years and years, the more videos of children's mishaps and tears and fears, the more popular the show, The ads for the shows were always the kiddies screaming and crying. What's funny? I could never get it but I had friends who loved these shows!

To hold up a few of SW's videos as some kind of distorted, unusual kind of behaviour just doesn't ring true to me, when the majority of the western world tune in every week to watch the most appalling signs of abusive behaviour against children!
To make an example of SW, is a joke. What does it have to do with her murder, with the murder of her children?

CW is the lone survivor, the laughing, cocky, vacant soul of a man who made a decision to destroy his family. They were a burden and no longer beautiful and cute, he cut any feelings for them well before that night, they had vanished from his mind and he made it a reality. This won't be different than the other FA's, imo. He'll probably blame his mother in the end too!
 
I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve seen enough Law and Order that I consider myself an expert. Incidentally, I am also a qualified medical professional based on the fact that I have seen every episode of House.

The mitigation expert comes in during the penalty phase. The purpose is to provide evidence that may sway the jury into opting for a lesser punishment (life vs death penalty).
LOL, that's hilarious, but also means you get the wrong guy or diagnosis twice before you get it right at approximately 20 minutes until the end of the show. (JK that seems to be the "formula" for those shows--I'm adding to your joke, not actually making fun of you).
 
Forgive me if I sound like I’m moaning but I’ve had it up to hear with the Christmas video being over analysed. SW did nothing wrong, my children would have had the same reaction to seeing Santa at their ages, be it at home or elsewhere.
SW went to so much effort, not for herself, for her little girls. She showed so much patience even though she must have felt a little deflated, the video proves to me what a great mommy she was and it proves to me that she never harmed a hair on those girls heads, JMO.
Thank you! Well said.;)
 
Last edited:
This is an interesting topic for me, Tippy. One that deserves a little more reading and research on my part.

I wonder if SM was as prevalent before LP's death, people would have a different opinion of her personality and relationship with SP? I have seen mostly photos of her, and really have no idea what she was like. I also wonder if we had only photos (no SM videos) of SW, if we would have a different opinion of her and her relationship with CW as well?
Great point, and from interviews with her mother and her friends, she was very outgoing, very opinionated, vivacious, and loving. Sounds like someone we discuss here to me...
 
I downloaded it too, but fell asleep.

Yesterday in thread nr 41 there was an interesting post about both CW and SP not wanting kids, and marrying women who, they might have expected, would not have any. And then these women got pregnant.

I have a theory that is hard to prove, and it is probably just my imagination.

In short, what do we know about human daydreaming? What if the minds of both CW and SP were filled with sadistic images, what if both created imaginary world so scary that they themselves were afraid of it? Of what they were capable in, in their mind?

Then they would be scared of passing it onto their kids. And especially, boys.

SP was expecting a boy whom he did not love as he never touched LP's belly. CW flipped out on the third kid, also, a boy.

I think it was not the main reason, the reason was the anger against the women and the wish to ultimately control the partners, forever. But the component of anger against the women being pregnant and the fear of the boys they were carrying (that the boys would grow up worse than themselves - because both fathers had the reason to be scared of own thinking) could have played a certain role. MOO twice

Interesting. JMD also murdered his pregnant-with-a-son wife Collette. And their 2 young daughters. There's a brief section in Fatal Vision that addresses similar subconscious motivations of being threatened in some way by having a son, because he wasnt secure in his own masculinity and/or had latent homosexual tendencies.
 
Neither do I.
I could never watch 'funniest home show videos' because children were/are often the butt of the joke when they'd have a fall off a bike, trampoline, were scared of clowns/animals/scary noises etc.
Those shows ratings went through the roof for years and years, the more videos of children's mishaps and tears and fears, the more popular the show, The ads for the shows were always the kiddies screaming and crying. What's funny? I could never get it but I had friends who loved these shows!

To hold up a few of SW's videos as some kind of distorted, unusual kind of behaviour just doesn't ring true to me, when the majority of the western world tune in every week to watch the most appalling signs of abusive behaviour against children!
To make an example of SW, is a joke. What does it have to do with her murder, with the murder of her children?

CW is the lone survivor, the laughing, cocky, vacant soul of a man who made a decision to destroy his family. They were a burden and no longer beautiful and cute, he cut any feelings for them well before that night, they had vanished from his mind and he made it a reality. This won't be different than the other FA's, imo. He'll probably blame his mother in the end too!
Agree, I cannot watch videos or shows with children or animals being scared or hurt.

The videos we have watched of SW's facebook show zero abuse, imho, although others may disagree.

They do show a very interactive mother who was trying to earn a living to help CW support the family by using SM.

Sadly, SW, NW, CeCEW and BW are all dead and CW is in jail.

It won't bring them back but I do hope that CW gets a sentence befitting a murderer.
MOO
 
Forgive me if I sound like I’m moaning but I’ve had it up to hear with the Christmas video being over analysed. SW did nothing wrong, my children would have had the same reaction to seeing Santa at their ages, be it at home or elsewhere.
SW went to so much effort, not for herself, for her little girls. She showed so much patience even though she must have felt a little deflated, the video proves to me what a great mommy she was and it proves to me that she never harmed a hair on those girls heads, JMO.
I couldn't agree more!
 
No one is perfect! The girls were getting presents from Santa, right? I wonder if she told her parents that she would try to have them join in to view it? It looks like she was Face Timing with her parents (Dad was seen on her screen.), but may be it was inadvertently uploaded to Live Stream it?
If it was inadvertent one would imagine it would have been subsequently deleted.
 
Interesting. JMD also murdered his pregnant-with-a-son wife Collette. And their 2 young daughters. There's a brief section in Fatal Vision that addresses similar subconscious motivations of being threatened in some way by having a son, because he wasnt secure in his own masculinity and/or had latent homosexual tendencies.
I watched Fatal Vision on Monday because I wanted to see if there were any similarities between CW and JMcD.

I think its well worth watching, (although I'll watch anything with Scott Foley!!!!!).

I concluded that JMcD was an alpha male with heaps of self-confidence that bordered on arrogance. A leader not a follower. I don't think he was insecure in his masculinity, just the opposite.

CW strikes me as submissive and insecure with himself, more of a follower. Its possible that his buff physical transformation made him more confident and aggressive.
MOO
 
Agree, I cannot watch videos or shows with children or animals being scared or hurt.

The videos we have watched of SW's facebook show zero abuse, imho, although others may disagree.

They do show a very interactive mother who was trying to earn a living to help CW support the family by using SM.

Sadly, SW, NW, CeCEW and BW are all dead and CW is in jail.

It won't bring them back but I do hope that CW gets a sentence befitting a murderer.
MOO

BBM
I find the premise distasteful -- she should have left the kids out of her Thrive promotion -- but IMHO the videos are not related to the murders.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
129
Guests online
1,669
Total visitors
1,798

Forum statistics

Threads
591,780
Messages
17,958,738
Members
228,606
Latest member
wdavewong
Back
Top