CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

[Lore Listener]

Exactly! You do something fast to stop what is going on and to check on the girls quickly and then call for medical help- because most parents don't want to believe their kids are dead and beyond help in such a spur of the moment incident. They want an ambulance.

Yep, and we heard first hand from a well-respected member of this forum, that is exactly what she did when she found her own child dead. Sadly, there are people in this big, strange world who have their own emotional, irrational reasons for wanting to make excuses for CW, the vilest of baby killers, and they will not let every single fact of this case stand in their way.

 

[Amonet]

Re: the sheets. If CW killed Shanann in the bedroom and there was cadaverine on the sheets/bed, then that would pretty much confirm that his story isn't true. Because I don't see why he'd have to drag her dead body back into the bedroom after killing her in a child's room as he drags her off the child she's in the act of strangling, and if he saw her on the monitor strangling a child, then he'd get to the room while she's still there and there'd be no cadaverine in the main bedroom, it would only be in the children's rooms and anywhere he'd left the bodies as he was moving them for transportation, which wouldn't be going through the main bedroom.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

This is going to be a long post on my theory. I think the bed sheets are going to do CW in. This is what I believe happened: SW gets home at 1:48. She leaves her belongings downstairs to deal with in the morning. She’s exhausted after a delayed flight, etc… She goes upstairs and straight to her bedroom. I don’t think she risks waking the kids in the middle of the night by going in to kiss them when she can see them on the monitor. (I personally don’t want to risk waking my kids at that hour knowing they won’t get back to sleep). She had no reason to believe C.W. wouldn’t have taken good care of them as he had done on all of her previous work trips. I do believe that the kids were alive at this point (I’ll explain later). I don’t think a big conversation happened between SW and CW.....maybe just a groggy hello if C.W. even bothered to act awake. I think C.W. is a coward and waited for SW to fall asleep before strangling her on their bed….probably around 3:00am.(FYI…she should be wearing pajamas when the ME report comes out). After C.W. kills SW, he wraps her in the fitted sheet she is laying on deceased on the bed. To be able to do this he has to toss off all of the top bedding to be able to peel those fitted sheet corners off of the foot of the mattress.
Hence the pile of bedding found on the floor by LE. With the most difficult murder out of the way, he proceeded to kill the “easier” victims. He likely placed them in bags because they were small. SW wouldn’t fit in a bag. I think killing all 3 and wrapping/bagging them up probably took about an hour. Then C.W. still had to shower and get dressed for work and load the truck. So I’m thinking from 3:00-4:00ish the murders happened, from 4:00-5:00 the quick clean up and get ready for work happened, and he was loaded and out of the driveway at 5:27am.
The reason I think the kids were still alive when he killed SW was because C.W. needed to get past the toughest murder first. In case SW was able to fight him off or he chickened out, he didn’t want to have 2 deceased children to deal with. He knew if he was successful in killing SW that the kids would be quick and easy to kill as they wouldn’t be able to put up much of a fight.
To disprove CW’s account of how it happened, the sheets again tell the story in my opinion. He would have killed SW in one of the girls’ rooms and SW would have wound up on the floor there. Knowing he couldn’t put her in a bag, he would wrap her in a sheet. Why on earth would he have used the fitted sheet from the Master bed to wrap her up? The fitted sheet is more difficult to remove because you have to walk to all 4 corners of the bed to remove it. Wouldn’t it have been easier for him to grab the much easier flat top sheet to use? It’s bigger and can be tied on the ends. Or he could have just used the top sheet from the kids bed that was right there where he claimed he killed her.
I believe the sheets in the kitchen trashcan were the ones on the bed at the time he killed SW. I’m pretty sure LE will be able to tell if those sheets were “used” or clean. I also think the cadaver dogs may have alerted to a dead body in the master bedroom which will also disprove CW’s account of what happened. SW should not have been dead in the master bedroom if he killed her in the girls room. Side note, if SW is wearing the clothes she came home in, then the attack would have happened sooner in the bedroom.....and maybe they did have a conversation that got heated. The clothing of SW and the girls in the ME report will give some indication as to when the were killed. Sorry for the long post. Any similar theories out there?

Do you believe it to be premeditated?

 

[stmarysmead]

I’m curious about the house in regard to the bankruptcy situation. They cannot declare bankruptcy again. If they have been unable to make house payments, the bank would eventually foreclose.

If so, would they still be able to realize any kind of profit from the appreciation of the house?

I read that...as far as the luxury car, LeVel only makes the payment on months where you sell a designated amount of product. So there’s pressure every month, for this couple with no savings, to try at all costs to avoid being hit with that additional burden.

I’m trying to imagine how a divorce would have affected each of them. Losing the house, maybe the car, and the “perfect” marriage might have destroyed the image Shanann so carefully crafted...so essential to the “this job solves all your problems” spin. Traveling to these vacation meetings would require expensive childcare.

On the other hand, his Other Woman might have not seen him as so desirable..when she began to understand the amount of debt he’d be saddled with AND double child support

But whomever initiated the topic of separation or divorce, it had to present scary future scenarios to the other party.

 

[CFlo]

I think this was the best video (on this topic) that I've seen.

Just jumping off this post here. I had to take a couple day break from posting, for my own “mental health” (like many do here on occasion).
Several pages back, the last thread believe, someone posted the idea that NUA heard the cell phone ringing from inside the house. Remember, at that point, NUA either had a key OR the front door keypad code. When the front door child safety lock on the inside was engaged, she could only open the door a couple/few inches. So IMO. She calls SW cell again and hears it ringing. CW states “nothing to worry about”, blah blah) and then she calls the police. I guess not really a big deal here but 1) kudos to the original poster on that theory and 2) I’ve just been sitting on my hands.
This part is missing from NUA media interviews this week and I firmly believe it’s because she is a witness, and a crucial one at that. Personally, she shouldn’t have done interviews being a crucial key witness, but that’s just my opinion. And she did answer some questions for us. And maybe she needed to get a partial story out, stop getting hounded by media, etc. so I’m not judging her on that.
BUT I think the found cell location of SW is important. Why in the in between bedrooms areas and behind a couch? She can’t strangle anyone with a cell phone in her hand. So she wouldn’t have brought it to the girls’ room with that intent.
Some have also said she maybe peeked in on the girls at close to 2am. Very plausible. But me? My son would’ve hear his bedroom door and just seems to have a sixth sense about him even in is sleep LOL. I have thrown my back out trying to peek in on him and ninja or limbo style out of his room. We have always had the same brand/model as SW had. I’ve done by own testing but not going to share here as the lawyers should do their own testing. It’s VERY telling though.
Reason I had to take a break. A couple of days ago, while my son was in school, I went through this not only in my mind, but also physically walking through the scenario. Absolutely horrifying, but net result? ANY parent (Father or Mother) would first have to get the other parent OFF the child. Regardless if they threw them, grabbed something to knock them off, etc the result is the same. There is a step in between. Get parent off child, there is a very quick point there that do you then go after who hurt your child, or do you go in protection mode and try to save your child, children. Answer is clear.
Should you witness your child thrown off their bike by a hit and run driver.... do you rush to your child, or do you pass your child to run down the driver? You may look up briefly to try to catch a license plate (don’t think I’d have that in my mind no many how many cases I read on WS), but a Parents first and only initial response will be to save their child. Unless they are a psychopath.
exactly.

 

[Amonet]

His story doesn’t fit. So he strangles SW because he’s so enraged because she killed their children? But then he kills their third child by killing her, and that, no matter how enraged one shall be, he would remember.
Doesn’t fit.
Autopsy results I strongly believe will prove this and not because of DNA, but because it will show that all three were strangled by the same hands (via premortum bruising, size of hands, fingers, etc.) my very strong belief.

That's the other thing. If a normal man had had to drag his homicidal wife off their children and hit her in defense of the children, when he calls 911 he's also going to scream that his wife needs medical attention as she's pregnant and he wants to make sure that baby is saved!

 

[FlossyMay]

Yep, and we heard first hand from a well-respected member of this forum, that is exactly what she did when she found her own child dead. Sadly, there are people in this big, strange world who have their own emotional, irrational reasons for wanting to make excuses for CW, the vilest of baby killers, and they will not let every single fact of this case stand in their way.

The problem is that we don't have all those facts yet. A lot of this is just assumption and opinion. It's okay to discuss all scenarios here. I think a good sleuth looks in all possible directions.

 

[Shekkiec]

I believe the Thayers will be crucial in testimony of his demeanor . He stayed with them and they were so bothered by his emotional detachment they contacted the investigator . They are crushed and in tears during their interviews and as friends of both SW and CW are devastated they supported him.

 

[tjredline]

I don't know if the phone plays a big part in this. I think it's as simple as she just maybe put it on the couch and it fell down. I do it all the time. Of course, my couch is right by my front door. But, there are times I come in and the dogs are all attacking me for loves. I just toss the phone on the couch and then search for 30 mins (ok not that long) trying to find it. I'm sure her dog was very happy to see her. I have 4 doxies and they bark everytime I come home, they attack me like they haven't seen me in years (this even if I take the trash out). What if she put the phone down to love on the dog as not to wake the girls. Of course, we don't know where the dog slept but I haven't seen any crate pictures.

 

[Sleutherfly]

He couldn’t.
Also, if her intent as one person here (besides CW states), why was her phone found in the loft area that sits between the master and the child rooms. Because she took it with her to strangle the girls? Um, no.

Her phone being in the couch bugs me. I'm wondering if CW stashed it there so she couldn't call the cops in case she was able to get away from him when he attacked her.

 

[cottonweaver]

Last part of it ( no point pasting up part 4 here, as that's the unravelling from afternoon of the 13th when NUA arrives.)

Part 3.

So it's now Around 4am through 5.27am due to all the delays as previously outlined. He starts to put his disposal plan into operation.

He has lost so much time & he isn't thinking straight now either. ( Although killing her once she's fallen asleep made everything so much quicker, silent and avoiding trashing the house & waking the neighbours)

1. He goes to get the bags which he had identified earlier butwas unable to prep/get out of storage prior to her arrival.(As she would see them & wonder why he needed these laundry/sports holdalls, whatever). He now packs the kids in the bags. (PS Often rigor mortis is negligible in kids' bodies regardless of ToD. Also correct me on use of bags if no MSM substantiation for that)
   
   
2. He has to lock the dog, now fully awake, into the garage as the dog starts to get agitated. The dog has either witnessed one of the murders or sensed one of it's loved ones is dead as the bodies are being prepared by CW for transport. Locked away the dog starts to howl 4-5am but it's getting too late to do anything about the dog's cries. ( Fox news article link, neighbour hears dog howling etc.PS irony that Fox = MSM linkable but JMO....)
   
   
3. CW has to check that the house is entirely locked up. He leaves her phone where she left it, he'll deal with that when he gets back from work along with the other personal effects. ( In reality he has to give it to the cops later that afternoon.)
   
   
4. He takes the top sheet & pillow cases off the bed or out of the closet ( or from bedroom unknown, let's assume master bed, affidavit doesn't actually stipulate which room it is from) and puts them in the trash. He possibly strips some other bedding off the master bed which LE later inspects– unknown what items exactly from affidavit so reasons unknown, just classed as "bedding".( All we know is there's no visible signs of foul play so no obvious human material on it. Could it even be as simple as affair evidence on it from weekend stay-over from affair person? That's why CW stripped it?Who knows?) He'll deal with trash disposal when he gets home - he only needs one sheet to wrap SW in during transport.
   
   
5. 5.27am he backs up his truck, knowing neighbour has camera and loads them all + the gas can and his tools & drives away shortly after. (The children are later deposited in the tanks still inside those bags. The sheet left in “a field near the tank battery” is an oversight/ it blew there whilst digging, he intended to bring it home and deal with it when disposing of the rest of the linen. Gas can is taken in case he needs extra fuel – he can't afford to fill up and be seen at a fuel stop.)
   
   
6. He arrives at the tank battery CERVI 319 after a long drive.
   
   
7. Children deposited quickly in each tank – he'd possibly prepped the bolts at a previous visit to that battery. He tries to carry SW into one of the openings. She is heavy and will not fit into the hatch. ( need to check the links again on measurements) He starts to dig a grave ( he's always carried a shovel etc ready in his car for work purposes,) the ground is rock hard so he digs her into one of the berms instead where the earth is softer. He's running out of time to keep to his work shift pattern and it's warm already & light. ( Sun rise 6.20 am colorado) He will have to come back later and either dig better or carry out an unknown Plan B for SW's disposal. ( Rigor mortis sets in 2-6 hrs after death so debateable whether it has set in already and whether this hindered him re SW or other reason he chooses burial.)
   
   
8. He now leaves remote CERVI 319 with intent to return and do a better job with the grave another time. He has to get onto his work schedule and look innocent. Later that morning, CW makes calls & texts to SW's phone to ensure these calls are logged on his phone, to look innocent. ( SW was scheduled at 10 am doctors apptmnt and he would know that, so he may have called around 10am to show an interest in that)

NB it takes very little pressure and time to strangle, especially if victims are asleep. If it's done that effectively as described above, there may be no DNA under anyone's fingernails, no scratches on the assailant due to easy restraint when a victim is so defenceless

When we have the autopsy full results we'll find out the actual facts. ( Parts 1 & 2 on pages 2-3 of thread 9)

 

[tjredline]

Re: the sheets. If CW killed Shanann in the bedroom and there was cadaverine on the sheets/bed, then that would pretty much confirm that his story isn't true. Because I don't see why he'd have to drag her dead body back into the bedroom after killing her in a child's room as he drags her off the child she's in the act of strangling, and if he saw her on the monitor strangling a child, then he'd get to the room while she's still there and there'd be no cadaverine in the main bedroom, it would only be in the children's rooms and anywhere he'd left the bodies as he was moving them for transportation, which wouldn't be going through the main bedroom.

What if this is why the prosecution is charging it as a first degree murder charge? There is a lot we don't know and I do believe, like everyone else, those bed sheets will play into it. I didn't really look at the sheets until every one started mentioning them.

 

[Amonet]

I think Shanann going into the children's rooms to check on them is easily possible, without her worrying about waking them.

I think a lot of children would sleep through someone walking in their room...how do parents put presents from Santa at the bottom of the bed every year if you can't tiptoe into the room without waking the child?

And, Shanann's just been away from her babies for a whole weekend. She didn't get to say goodnight to them, so I can easily imagine her tiptoe into the room, check the covers on them, pick up a teddy that's fallen out of bed in the night, and gently whisper "I love you" before leaving the room, and feeling safe and secure to fall asleep herself knowing her babies are safely tucked up in bed and having sweet dreams.

 

[CGW]

Do you believe it to be premeditated?

I have been back and forth on the premeditated. I think the scenario I mentioned works either way....premeditated or spontaneous. I think killing had crossed his mind in the past and he had thought those oil wells would be a good place to hide a body. I lean more towards premeditated.

 

[Shekkiec]

The parts that are redacted on the statement have me really curious .

 

[SweetPeas56]

I know this will pop in at random ( kind of like the way I'm able to get on and read posts between job and family)...but people have speculated about the mistress and the role she may have played in this, if any.

MY OWN SPECULATION....
I think there were probably multiple incidents of infidelity on his part, and I don't think it only started when he got in shape. I've seen some piggish looking men (and women) cheat on their spouses. I think there are likely women who knew as well as some who didn't know he was married. His behavior in the interview and court make me think he's entirely self-centered. Many posters here speculate that he's a full on narcissist. I wouldn't be surprised. But regardless I think his ego needed stroking and he had affairs.

Couple of thoughts....

He could've gotten emotionality invested in his last affair, instead of only physically, become dissatisfied with home life and wanted out, so he killed his family. He apparently had been distant recently, per NU and the woman at the amusement park.

Or

Maybe he was perfectly satisfied to have his home life and also his side activities and when presented with losing that, whether due to financial problems or due to SW having proof of infidelity, he killed his family. His distance from them may have been part of his thought processes leading up to his actions.
.
I just doubt that his most recent affair was his first.
.
Just thoughts bouncing around. Anyone else?

I see their smiling faces in pics and think about the utter innocence of the babies and I can't turn off my emotions or my thoughts. I keep looking for amswers, when really there are no good ones. I just have to hug my own loved ones and be thankful I have them with me.

 

[notrust]

I also feel the sheets are telling. Why throw those particular things away but leave everything else? It's as if he thought he would have time to properly dispose of them, knew they needed to be gone, but just tossed them in the trash to deal with later. In his mind, I believe he thought he had ample time to deal with the less important evidence.

 

[PommyMommy]

Re: the sheets. If CW killed Shanann in the bedroom and there was cadaverine on the sheets/bed, then that would pretty much confirm that his story isn't true. Because I don't see why he'd have to drag her dead body back into the bedroom after killing her in a child's room as he drags her off the child she's in the act of strangling, and if he saw her on the monitor strangling a child, then he'd get to the room while she's still there and there'd be no cadaverine in the main bedroom, it would only be in the children's rooms and anywhere he'd left the bodies as he was moving them for transportation, which wouldn't be going through the main bedroom.

Have you considered the possibility that following the emotional conversation (which could have been loud), while CW is strangling Shanann, the girls woke up and came running into the bedroom? Although I haven't thought it all through just yet, it would make sense as to why he didn't also take the children's sheets.

 

[stmarysmead]

I believe the Thayers will be crucial in testimony of his demeanor . He stayed with them and they were so bothered by his emotional detachment they contacted the investigator . They are crushed and in tears during their interviews and as friends of both SW and CW are devastated they supported him.

Years ago, we lived next to a wonderful family with 4 children. Dad was a school teacher. In August they took a family vacation and, on the day they were to return home, their 8 yr old son fell to his death from the observation deck of the airport.

The Mom was very composed, almost serene at the viewing and funeral. She even made an odd “joke” about how her son looked in the coffin. She seemed emotionless.

A few weeks later, on the day school started, I heard screams, just wailing next door...”Billy DIED!” “Billy DIED!” Our drive2ays were adjacent, and her teacher husband was leaning on his car...”Please try and help her. I have tried and tried andhave to get to work.” I went in the house and she actually physically pushed and slapped me...till she just collapsed and sobbed in my arms.

I will NEVER forget that day...nor judge love by manifestations or lack thereof...of grief.
I have no doubt of guilt in this case...but not because of his seemingly “uncaring”demeanor. If he was so excellent at premeditation he would have been theatrically beating his breast and tearing his clothes.

 

[Shekkiec]

He would have had to clean himself or change as well I would think . So did he pack extra clothes to take with him after dumping the bodies ? He is a very groomed man and no way would come to work disheveled