GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #58

[Johnny1181]

It’s possible.

On the other hand, I think that would open himself up to criticism from his mom for “stupidly” marrying Shanann in the first place.

“I told you so, Chrissy boy.”

Honestly I don't know how Shanann managed tolerating that family dynamic. I mean, most people would not be willing to.
They didn't attend her wedding, undermined her parenting, and wow, we know exactly what they thought of her through the tv interviews and her father in law's opinion given to the police.... yet she still tried to give access to the girls and subjected herself to them.
Way stronger than I could've been. She must have really loved him and valued her marriage and family. It's just very sad. jmo

 

[Delevanjo]

Trying to catch up with all the threads and the 2000 pages... Is anyone else intrigued by the (unborn) baby's name, Nico Lee? I mean...really is it that far a stretch? It is complete speculation on my part but --- Nicole?? My speculation/conjecture being: SW knew about Nicole. I'm piecing this together with SW comments that CW was "playing" and "living the single life" (or was it "bachelor life"...I may need to revisit the exact quote). The point is...I wonder if SW gave CW "space" to play? She loved him enough to give him the space to figure it out...or did she find out about Nicole (SW was a keen woman and I believe truly loved CW from what I'm reading in these 2000pages). In any event, long, long time reader (missy bevers) and enjoy reading your posts here when I can.

 

[Bravo]

I believe a lot of people under-estimated CW, even here. Even me. Not his intellect, or his planning, but his ability to manipulate. The facade he created may well have been deliberate. I have also seen glimpses of a manipulator in his Mother's behavior. Which might explain the friction between them. Imagine the tension as they tried to manipulate each other!

I suspect CW will find it harder, and perhaps dangerous, to try manipulation in prison!

Agree. He lived in the burbs, nice home, lovely wife and kids. Presented well. Until you peel back a layer. Typical Sociopath.

 

[mickey2942]

I would love to have a psychologist weigh in on their toxic relationship.

That is an interesting idea. Especially as both are still alive. It would be fantastic if they would consent for a research project. I doubt that would happen. And it would not be a "Mother Bashing" project, but more about the dynamics, personality.

Much has been discussed about serial killers/serial rapists, and their relationship with their Mother, one comes to mind, Ed Kemper, who was quite a nice guy, intelligent, but was treated like a monster by his Mother. The FBI profiler who wrote about Ed Kemper surmised that Ed would have never become a serial killer, if he had been brought up in another environment.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

reading about the covered doll photo is new. right after the murders, I saw that SW had posted that photo on FB but had commented like it was one she had found, I was unaware of the dates of the actual tick/tock, so it seemed like SW had found that scene, she'd commented she didn't know what to make of it. Now I find out CW had sent it to her and she' reposted it. What in the heck? The apparent head covering prep is disturbing.

I think CW did it and sent the pic to her saying one of the kids did it and SW took it as funny that her kids would do that and so she posted it. Kids do funny things. Now I think he sent it as a "warning" if only in his own mind. Like he was taunting Shanann and she didn't even know. As someone else said, it seems he had a sneaky mean streak.

 

[MassGuy]

Honestly I don't know how Shanann managed tolerating that family dynamic. I mean, most people would not be willing to.
They didn't attend her wedding, undermined her parenting, and wow, we know exactly what they thought of her through the tv interviews and her father in law's opinion given to the police.... yet she still tried to give access to the girls and subjected herself to them.
Way stronger than I could've been. She must have really loved him and valued her marriage and family. It's just very sad. jmo

Yeah. I think that if she didn’t have kids, she would have avoided them like the plague.

She did it for them, and perhaps CW to an extent.

I couldn’t deal with that either.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Agree yet mom strikes as the type who loves and thrives on bashing and making life he77 for others. CW may be delighted to have provided that for her. It kept her off his case???

Maybe he married SW just piss his mom off because she hated her so much. A big middle finger.

Moo

 

[x_files]

That is an interesting idea. Especially as both are still alive. It would be fantastic if they would consent for a research project. I doubt that would happen. And it would not be a "Mother Bashing" project, but more about the dynamics, personality.

Much has been discussed about serial killers/serial rapists, and their relationship with their Mother, one comes to mind, Ed Kemper, who was quite a nice guy, intelligent, but was treated like a monster by his Mother. The FBI profiler who wrote about Ed Kemper surmised that Ed would have never become a serial killer, if he had been brought up in another environment.

Exactly although Cindy did not kill anyone, but did she goad him into it? I wonder if she ever suggested if it would be better if they just disappeared or went away?
The dehumanizing, constant, drama and fighting is stressful, and he had to grow up in that environment which is not healthy.
If he is a sociopath and empathy is difficult for him he needed someone to help develop empathy not dehumanize others.
A perfect storm was created.

 

[Thepoet]

I'm not trying to sleuth family but I wonder what Chris sister's husband thinks of all of this and I wonder if he is close to her family. I wonder if Mother Watts likes him.

And not that it matters, but I can't get over how different NK looks in the photos I've seen of her. I know there are other people with that name but these are definitely her. She looks so different in many of them. Just an observation.

I'm finally caught up reading the docs and on most of the posts. I almost wish I didn't read most of the docs. Reading SW's words about being so worried and trying so hard to save her marriage, while also reading what was going on with CW and NK at the same time, was heartbreaking. I have no doubt that SW would have been fine had they divorced but she clearly at least wanted to try to save her marriage and she seemed genuinely sad it was probably ending.

Hi bonjoviblond! I've said many times; Shanann was a fighter and a survivor. I believe she would have tried as hard as she could, keeping her children first, and then ended it and begun rebuilding.

One way, or another, CW would have screwed things up and self destructed!

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Honestly I don't know how Shanann managed tolerating that family dynamic. I mean, most people would not be willing to.
They didn't attend her wedding, undermined her parenting, and wow, we know exactly what they thought of her through the tv interviews and her father in law's opinion given to the police.... yet she still tried to give access to the girls and subjected herself to them.
Way stronger than I could've been. She must have really loved him and valued her marriage and family. It's just very sad. jmo

I agree and have stated before how gracious of her it was to continue to let them in. My MIL was nasty to me, about 10 years into the marriage I told my husband I was done, I would not go visit her ( she lives 6 hours away) and she was not welcome in our home. I told him you can take the kids to visit anytime you want but don’t ask me to go. He understood. I had no desire to alienate him from his mother, she already caused problems, I was not going to add to them.

 

[scdiv]

So wrong that CW's family was stuck on this narrative of SW being "unstable" "bipolar" and "narcissistic." Reading through her text messages shows the exact opposite. She was loving, thoughtful, caring, and trying to do everything right. She was so upset and hurt about how he was acting toward her, but she made it so clear how much she loved him. She didn't trash him, she didn't try to manipulate. She was so sincere. It is so heartbreaking.

 

[Thepoet]

Wow. I am going to have a hard explaining to people who read this thread that we don't bash victims. I'm not saying NK is a victim but the bashing here is relentless. You are not discussing the 2000 pages of case information that has all kinds of interesting tidbits. No, I am seeing posts about anal sex, group sex, how you want NK to have a terrible life, Oral things, threesomes, what an awful person NK really is and how she doesn't deserve to have a good life or good job. REALLY? Again, I am not saying NK is a victim. What I am saying NK did not kill Shanann and her children. I feel you are more angry with NK that with Chris. I'm not seeing the discussion about the awful things Cindy Watts said. What about his childhood? Can you make a connection to his mother's behavior, his obvious ignoring her but asking for dad, why wouldn't Cindy go to their wedding, what does that say about her and her relationship with Chris,

Remember we do not out Verified members. You may think you know who it is but you very well could be wrong. I could understand tearing apart her comments on the forum since they were so different than the reality we see but trying to out a verified member? It's not what we do.

There is no way we can remove all the post that contain name calling or wishing NK ill will. We can't. Why? There would be so little of the thread left not to mention the mod time something like this would take.

Recently I was talking with a well known true crime author and host of some true crime shows and he asked, "Websleuths is a cut above all the other crime forums. You have all the really smart members why do you think that is?

This thread does not represent "a cut above" anything.

We will continue to moderate best we can. I wish you all could get off the sex stuff and wishing her an awful life. NK did not kill anyone.
NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT NK'S BEHAVIOR AND HOW AWFUL YOU THINK THAT BEHAVIOR IS
NK DID NOT KILL ANYONE

Tricia

I've been gone a few days. Shanann's love for CW and her fight to save her marriage just tore me apart. I have missed a lot, probably as well, and I'm sorry for the bad posting. WS is a class act and very professional. Stay proud of all the good and ignore the small, but so obvious, bad. I believe most of us agree with you!

 

[x_files]

So wrong that CW's family was stuck on this narrative of SW being "unstable" "bipolar" and "narcissistic." Reading through her text messages shows the exact opposite. She was loving, thoughtful, caring, and trying to do everything right. She was so upset and hurt about how he was acting toward her, but she made it so clear how much she loved him. She didn't trash him, she didn't try to manipulate. She was so sincere. It is so heartbreaking.

A case of projection perhaps?

 

[tmar]

I would love to have a psychologist weigh in on their toxic relationship.

Where is our Psychologist to answer these for us?
There is someone here, in research, not Clinical, but would love to hear their thoughts.
Previous info by this Poster was most informative: stereo....... (something similar to this).
I understand, it is only through this evidence presented, but perhaps we may receive some ideas that we could discuss.
MOO.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Maybe he married SW just piss his mom off because she hated her so much. A big middle finger.

Moo

I think thst may be a part of it. With a strong woman by his side he good finally muster up the courage to defy Moma-and I bet that was a first.

 

[Bravo]

It is heartbreaking to think how hard Shanann tried with all of the Watt's. Not one of them deserved to have her and the kids in their toxic lives. And to pay with her life and the Children's!!!! In my mind Mom is wondering exactly what did Shanann do to drive CW to an affair and murder! Enable much!!!!

 

[MassGuy]

A case of projection perhaps?

Yup.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

So wrong that CW's family was stuck on this narrative of SW being "unstable" "bipolar" and "narcissistic." Reading through her text messages shows the exact opposite. She was loving, thoughtful, caring, and trying to do everything right. She was so upset and hurt about how he was acting toward her, but she made it so clear how much she loved him. She didn't trash him, she didn't try to manipulate. She was so sincere. It is so heartbreaking.

More like they were describing HIM.

 

[MassGuy]

Where is our Psychologist to answer these for us?
There is someone here, in research, not Clinical, but would love to hear their thoughts.
Previous info by this Poster was most informative: stereo....... (something similar to this).
I understand, it is only through this evidence presented, but perhaps we may receive some ideas that we could discuss.
MOO.

@stereopticons

 

[Bravo]

Yep "Nothing wrong with ME" "It's YOU"