GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #65

[MassGuy]

The saddest thing to me is that as soon as Chris expressed his unhappiness in the marriage she was willing to look at her faults and immediately wanted to work on it. If only he had mentioned it a few years before! Marriage counselling may have helped her see him for who he was and she may have been able to get out.

Her reaction was incredibly sad.

She blamed herself, and tried to analyze her own faults. She thought that she was doing something wrong.

It was him all along.

 

[MCDRAW]

I’ve known people who have suffered less who never managed to put the pieces back together, again. This is a life defining moment for her. We’ll see how it turns out.

She made her choices. She has to pay the consequences. She will land on her feet

CO state paid for all funeral expenses. Each victim received funds. It was in the document releases.

I tried to reread through those. Apparently I missed more than I thought.

 

[NanZDrew]

We know that SW noticed a change in CW, and it happened out of nowhere.

If he had other affairs, he clearly wasn’t impacted in the same way as the one with NK.

It appears that he killed to be with her after all.

I think he was possibly having other affairs, because we know that (from SW/CW texts) he had told that her a baby might get his head in the right place. Then they said they only had to try twice to conceive which would have possibly putting the problems around April. Didn't sound that they were that severe at that time. They seemed to escalate in June.

Personally, I feel that SW and CW knew each other before June. I say this because she was the Environmental, Health and Safety Manager. They were field technicians. Having worked in the environmental field, I know that she would have had to make reports on any emissions. Every valve or fitting where gases could be emitted must be monitored which is what CW and his team did. That information would have been reported to her and she would have reported it to governmental agencies and most likely compiled the annual Toxic Release Inventory...or at the least...supplied the data for an outside firm to compile it. If there were any spills, leaks, or upsets, she would have to coordinate with the field crews and complete paperwork and also interface with the EPA and other governmental agencies. It there was an accident, she would have been involved in that paperwork and possibly investigation. She may have also been in charge of the safety training. Many have thought she was stupid, but she had to have been intelligent to have the job that she had. That does not mean she had maturity or good judgment, but do not think she was stupid. She even she that one of the sensors malfunctioned and CW came to get another one from her. So in a nutshell, she did have interaction with the field crews. I just doubt that she gave very many of them the time of the day, because she ranked above them. Apparently, CW caught her attention. She mentioned a friendship that grew into more, and I think the work relationship started becoming more by at least Sept 2017 when her googling of CW and SW started. Sometimes emotional affairs are more intense than physical affairs, but I'm guessing in January-February 2018 is about the time CW started having feelings for her.

 

[BingoBongo]

I agree. When a horrific tragedy like this occurs, the narrative becomes suddenly simplistic. The victim is a perfect faultless human; the killer the personification of evil. I think we’d learn more about preventing these tragedies if we could step back from the Angel/devil scenario...and excamine commonalities in these toxic relationships that erupt into murder.

It's too hard to accept that something so crude, ugly, unloving and evil could happen at any time, maybe to anyone. It's easier to generically label evil, and good (although, IMO, CW is truly evil).

Cases like this, as far as the dynamics and personalities of those involved, are rarely uncomplicated. But we generally wish for uncomplicated. There is something soothing about hearing "this is why he/she/they did this."

 

[Layla123]

You'll never believe it, but actually experts and professionals have already been studying "these tragedies" for decades now, and even have a pretty darn good idea of what the "commonalities" and causes are. There are thousands of books, studies, scholarly articles, and popular articles already published on exactly this subject. Many Websleuthers have posted links to some of the best of this information. You should really take a look.

Because guess what?

These are NOT "toxic relationships that erupt into murder." These are psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists... ABUSERS. And to contradict a favorite myth of misogynists the world over, no, abuse victims do not "bring it on themselves." And no, FAs don't annihilate whole families because they were bullied and nagged by their meanie wives and "the mouse roared." If they were really so cowed, wouldn't they just pack a bag and disappear into the night? This whole fairytale scenario pushed by incels and MRAs simply does not hold up to logic or basic Psych 101.

Oh and yes, a man who kills two precious preschoolers who call him their hero and stuffs them into crude oil tank hatches and strangles a pregnant wife desperate to make him happy and save her family in her sleep is the very definition of THE DEVIL.

And I have serious questions about any hypothetical person who could empathize with him or would defend him.

Where is the vomiting emoji when you need it ?!

This!

 

[NuttMegg]

Boom!

People are responsible for their actions. The consequences of those actions are theirs to bare.

There are real victims here. She is not one of them.

I’m sick of all this discussion involving her.

No one is even mentioning what the flying monkeys with their nasty podcasts were doing re SW, which was far worse than anything done to NK.

 

[MassGuy]

No one is even mentioning what the flying monkeys with their nasty podcasts were doing re SW, which was far worse than anything done to NK.

A million times worse.

 

[PommyMommy]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>
I have followed this case since day 1 - all 65 threads - and I don't remember a single post claiming that Shanann was perfect. In fact, her perceived faults have been discussed ad nauseam. Whether or not her spending was excessive or their relationship was toxic is neither here nor there. CW annihilated his family and the answer to why he did so lies with HIM. MOO

 

[MCDRAW]

We disagree. There’s no proof she knew how married he was. He was available to her 24 hours a day for five weeks. Committed men aren’t. Near the end things started to change. Who knows what would have happened if the murders didn’t? I think she was a victim, as I think anyone would be if their boyfriend turned out to be a lying murderer who killed 4 people and turned their world upside down. At the same time she was searching for book deals, she was doing everything she could to escape and avoid the media. We don’t know what she was thinking when she searched that book. It could have been as innocent as a curiosity about what happened to Amber Frey. We don’t know that she plans to write write a book. I’ve heard a lot of people say some pretty nasty things about her, including how much they are enjoying her suffering.

We do disagree. How married he was? You are either married or you aren't. There isn't a degree of marriage.

 

[kimpage]

CO state paid for all funeral expenses. Each victim received funds. It was in the document releases.

So what does it matter they are VICTIMS of this crime..FFS

 

[BingoBongo]

NK wasn't asked about Jim in the first place, was she? She was such a motor mouth, going off on tangent after tangent, why did she bring him up at all?

Someone else said he was her alibi, so I can see why he was brought up.

But yes, she definitely had verbal diarrhea in those LE interview videos!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I don’t have the credentials to diagnose someone as narc, soc or psycho. As a neat freak, I have friends that label me OCD. A few of them are so UN-neat I could label them as a farm animal.

Oh ok, so there's a problem only with SOME definitions and not others? I'm a neat person too, not quite a freak though, lol! I don't know what that has to do with taking a wild guess that CW is a psycho, a soc or narc because that's the implication, isn't it? Those being singled out for it and then, the accuser does exactly the same, re: CW and OCD. These stimulating conversations never end.

 

[MCDRAW]

Well, if it's true that at least 60% of people have affairs, then a lot of people would be unemployed by that standard!

As far as I know employers do not fire for or even care about affairs. They do care that you use their time and resources to do so. In my opinion, you can't make choices that make you look bad, then whine because you look bad.

 

[NanZDrew]

In terms of Shanann not seeing it coming, there is a very in depth analysis in "Inside the mind of Scott Peterson," of Lacis personality and the reason she missed all the red flags. It reminds me very much of the marriage between Shanann and Chris. Laci and Shanann shared many characteristics, and the desire to live a certain lifestyle was the most significant. They had similar goals and dreams.
It's much more complex than that, and since I've already mentioned it a few times before I won't go into any more detail. But I do think it's similar to Shananns marriage to Chris and like Scott and Laci, allowed many things to go unnoticed and helped to enable the perfect storm that ended in disaster.

Completely agree with you. Laci and Shanann remind me so much of each other. Both very kind and loving, and they looked alike. Sometimes when you love someone, you don't WANT to see the red flags. You ignore them or excuse them because you cannot bear to think that the person that you love could be evil, or you cannot bear the thought of your marriage breaking up. Then that person (Laci/Shanann) take all of the responsiblity upon themselves to make things work. They start to enslave themself to the person, and that narcissist begins to loathe them when they become subservient to them.

 

[BingoBongo]

Didn’t the CO crime victim fund pay for the funerals (per doc dump) & CW is required to make restitution?

I wish we could make him pay for the whole trial, and all the costs associated with it!

 

[BingoBongo]

As far as I know employers do not fire for or even care about affairs. They do care that you use their time and resources to do so. In my opinion, you can't make choices that make you look bad, then whine because you look bad.

Depends on who the affair is between.

 

[MassGuy]

I wish we could make him pay for the whole trial, and all the costs associated with it!

He kinda is. Just not with money.

 

[tmar]

I doubt it, but I would hope so.

I’m sure they could put it to good use. A memorial fund or something.

Or find legal ways, that those that defamed their daughter, told lies, (we know who they are) are now brought to justice.

 

[BingoBongo]

Then that person (Laci/Shanann) take all of the responsibility upon themselves to make things work. They start to enslave themselves to the person, and that narcissist begins to loathe them when they become subservient to them.

This!

 

[Layla123]

We do disagree. How married he was? You are either married or you aren't. There isn't a degree of marriage.

He told her he was getting a divorce and he was available 24 hours a day. How would she know? And maybe she didn’t get on the Internet as often as you all think. She used the word, “retarded.” How many people in this day and age do you know who use that word? I don’t know any. You’d think her friends would have called her on it by now. Who is this woman from the oil fields? She seems very socially inept to me.