GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67

[NuttMegg]

I don't believe anyone said NK was a killer!

DAs use all tools, assets, etc., available to them.

DAs' main goal is convictions and they pursue all avenues available to obtain convictions. That is one way they get re-elected!

I believe the ethics of DAs, in general, is questionable based on the number of innocent people convicted and guilty people set free. DA Roark was exemplary.

When the plea agreement was made, taking DP off the table, there was NO DP on the table. No decision had been made yet about seeking the DP, so why the rush by the defense? Something spurred them and CW forward.

As history has shown us, anything can happen during a trial, and does, and very few cases are really "open and shut", that is why so many cases, especially high profile cases go to trial. Again; why the rush to end things by the defense and CW?

IMHO, the DA recognized CW's weakness; the desperation to protect NK (see interrogation videos) and used it along with the autopsy results to pressure the defense, and it worked.



MOO BBM

And, what if CW had lawyered up before interrogations? Surely more scrutiny would have been placed on NK. But they, LE, saw that he was the bird in the hand, and that he was caving, only obvious that they would zone in on him instead of some nebulous, hard to prove "co-conspiracy". Thus, get him to plead guilty at least to SW's murder.

There is a reason that we aren't privy to NK communications with CW after Monday night, IMO. LE saw fit to release her searches on monetizing notoriety re Frey, but did not release her communications with the murderer after the fact?

Hate to keep harping on this, so much was going on Tuesday, CW texting (to NK?) while on camera, co-worker returning to the site because of what, poor clothing choice by CW on Monday? To whom did that co-worker share his concerns with in the office?

What did she say to him after she learned, she says, on Tuesday that her lover's wife was pregnant? Or did she already know (IMO yes).

As I mentioned several times, I am open to being corrected on the release of a transcript or interview with NK after Monday night. I haven't found one.

 

[cherrymeg]

I don't believe anyone said NK was a killer!

DAs use all tools, assets, etc., available to them.

DAs' main goal is convictions and they pursue all avenues available to obtain convictions. That is one way they get re-elected!

I believe the ethics of DAs, in general, is questionable based on the number of innocent people convicted and guilty people set free. DA Roark was exemplary.

When the plea agreement was made, taking DP off the table, there was NO DP on the table. No decision had been made yet about seeking the DP, so why the rush by the defense? Something spurred them and CW forward.

As history has shown us, anything can happen during a trial, and does, and very few cases are really "open and shut", that is why so many cases, especially high profile cases go to trial. Again; why the rush to end things by the defense and CW?

IMHO, the DA recognized CW's weakness; the desperation to protect NK (see interrogation videos) and used it along with the autopsy results to pressure the defense, and it worked.



MOO BBM

I think he would have thrown her under the bus if he could. His kids and wife where like objects to him. The girlfriend might have been new and shiny but that wouldn't have lasted. I don't think CW can really care about anyone.

 

[riolove77]

I don't believe anyone said NK was a killer!

DAs use all tools, assets, etc., available to them.

DAs' main goal is convictions and they pursue all avenues available to obtain convictions. That is one way they get re-elected!

I believe the ethics of DAs, in general, is questionable based on the number of innocent people convicted and guilty people set free. DA Roark was exemplary.

When the plea agreement was made, taking DP off the table, there was NO DP on the table. No decision had been made yet about seeking the DP, so why the rush by the defense? Something spurred them and CW forward.

As history has shown us, anything can happen during a trial, and does, and very few cases are really "open and shut", that is why so many cases, especially high profile cases go to trial. Again; why the rush to end things by the defense and CW?

IMHO, the DA recognized CW's weakness; the desperation to protect NK (see interrogation videos) and used it along with the autopsy results to pressure the defense, and it worked.



MOO BBM

DAs’ main goal is justice, not convictions. It just so happens that the two are often the same. People HAVE said NK was a killer; that she knew beforehand, that she helped him cover it up, that it was her idea even.

I don’t like the girl and would have some choice words for her if I came across her. But I do not believe the DA just let her off the hook in order to get CW. CW is someone who could not face the possibility and probability of people seeing what he had done in detail during a trial. All of the the things we saw would have been 100x magnified and televised, and he couldn’t deal with that. That’s why he pled. Not because of the DP. It’s possible he also didn’t want to live on death row, but my opinion is his primary motive was concealing as much as he could and getting the inevitable over with. Not protecting NK.

Moo

 

[riolove77]

And respectfully, DAs’ ethics aren’t “generally questionable”. That’s like cops are “generally bad” and teachers are “generally having sex with students” and priests are “generally rapists”. The large majority of DAs are incredibly ethical human beings and civil servants.

 

[NuttMegg]

DAs’ main goal is justice, not convictions. It just so happens that the two are often the same. People HAVE said NK was a killer; that she knew beforehand, that she helped him cover it up, that it was her idea even.

I don’t like the girl and would have some choice words for her if I came across her. But I do not believe the DA just let her off the hook in order to get CW. CW is someone who could not face the possibility and probability of people seeing what he had done in detail during a trial. All of the the things we saw would have been 100x magnified and televised, and he couldn’t deal with that. That’s why he pled. Not because of the DP. It’s possible he also didn’t want to live on death row, but my opinion is his primary motive was concealing as much as he could and getting the inevitable over with. Not protecting NK.

Moo

I really respect your input. But, I have to ask you, isn't there a thresh hold of "evidence" or data that a DA weighs before seeking a nebulous co-conspiracy charge? And, if there is a ripe suspect in hand, and if a confession as to part of the crime is coming quickly, then that would cause the DA to ease up on harder-to-prove charges against someone else who clearly had a physical alibi at the moment of the murders.

I wonder what would have happened to that gal who urged her boyfriend to carry through with his suicide. (He did, even though they were texting at the same moment he was having doubts, she told him to go ahead, paraphrased). What if there had been another friend right in the car with the poor kid. And that friend had helped hold up the suicide apparatus, and wouldn't let the kid back down. If you see what I am getting at, maybe the DA in that case would have thrown the book at the person who actually was present at the suicide, which made it a murder, in effect. The person a couple of states over who was tweeting go ahead (like people on the street chanting jump jump jump at some guy on a high rise)...well she was definitely not there. So, it seems to me the DA would go after the person present at the crime, not someone who was not even there and had an physical alibi.

As it turned out they prosecuted the girl who was not even there, since there was no one actually with the kid.

Maybe you see where I am going, IMO the DA would have had NK in the hot seat if CW was not cooperating. If he had lawyered up, and no one was claiming responsibility, maybe the DA would have been weighing the possibility of co conspiracy much differently.

 

[Thepoet]

DAs’ main goal is justice, not convictions. It just so happens that the two are often the same. People HAVE said NK was a killer; that she knew beforehand, that she helped him cover it up, that it was her idea even.

I don’t like the girl and would have some choice words for her if I came across her. But I do not believe the DA just let her off the hook in order to get CW. CW is someone who could not face the possibility and probability of people seeing what he had done in detail during a trial. All of the the things we saw would have been 100x magnified and televised, and he couldn’t deal with that. That’s why he pled. Not because of the DP. It’s possible he also didn’t want to live on death row, but my opinion is his primary motive was concealing as much as he could and getting the inevitable over with. Not protecting NK.

Moo

CW concealed nothing, CW went on national television and pled quilty on nine counts! It all came out. Over 2000 pages! Or did it? Was something important withheld?

I never saw anyone accusing NK of the murders or being directly involved in the murders, but a lot has been said and I haven't read everything. So I don't doubt you. I do believe NK obstructed justice and was a catalyst to the murders, but she may well have been an unknowing catalyst. I don't believe she was directly involved in the murders.

When I lived in Dallas, it turned out the longtime DA there, Henry Wade, had plea bargained out over 90% of the rape cases his office handled, to keep his conviction rate high! It was a major news story. DAs are political animals.

Thanks for your excellent responses.

 

[Thepoet]

And respectfully, DAs’ ethics aren’t “generally questionable”. That’s like cops are “generally bad” and teachers are “generally having sex with students” and priests are “generally rapists”. The large majority of DAs are incredibly ethical human beings and civil servants.

DAs are political animals. You can't equate teachers and priests breaking the law with someone in a political office doing their job a certain way. It's apples and oranges. We have the Bill of Rights and numerous laws to protect us and ensure those in political office and in law enforcement do their jobs honestly and competently. There is a reason for that.

 

[riolove77]

I really respect your input. But, I have to ask you, isn't there a thresh hold of "evidence" or data that a DA weighs before seeking a nebulous co-conspiracy charge? And, if there is a ripe suspect in hand, and if a confession as to part of the crime is coming quickly, then that would cause the DA to ease up on harder-to-prove charges against someone else who clearly had a physical alibi at the moment of the murders.

I wonder what would have happened to that gal who urged her boyfriend to carry through with his suicide. (He did, even though they were texting at the same moment he was having doubts, she told him to go ahead, paraphrased). What if there had been another friend right in the car with the poor kid. And that friend had helped hold up the suicide apparatus, and wouldn't let the kid back down. If you see what I am getting at, maybe the DA in that case would have thrown the book at the person who actually was present at the suicide, which made it a murder, in effect. The person a couple of states over who was tweeting go ahead (like people on the street chanting jump jump jump at some guy on a high rise)...well she was definitely not there. So, it seems to me the DA would go after the person present at the crime, not someone who was not even there and had an physical alibi.

As it turned out they prosecuted the girl who was not even there, since there was no one actually with the kid.

Maybe you see where I am going, IMO the DA would have had NK in the hot seat if CW was not cooperating. If he had lawyered up, and no one was claiming responsibility, maybe the DA would have been weighing the possibility of co conspiracy much differently.

I am not sure where you're going with this, because the gal who encouraged her boyfriend's suicide is not comparable to NK's role here. I am confident the DA and LE looked through everything they had and concluded they had no crime with her. She most certainly WAS the catalyst to this crime, she said so herself! She was the motive, she was the reason, she was the everything to him. He HAD to have her, and he had to have her NOW, and in his sick mind, that was the only way.

NK obviously realized whatever things she may have said to him to push his separation and ultimate divorce went incredibly haywire when he literally got rid of his family. I think she is abhorrent, and I would NEVER do the things she did if I were innocent of any legal wrongdoing. Morally she is bankrupt and she is going to pay for that for the rest of her life, but I do NOT believe that she ever said to him "Kill your family" and that the DA simply let it go because there were easier to prove charges with CW.

 

[riolove77]

DAs are political animals. You can't equate teachers and priests breaking the law with someone in a political office doing their job a certain way. It's apples and oranges. We have the Bill of Rights and numerous laws to protect us and ensure those in political office and in law enforcement do their jobs honestly and competently. There is a reason for that.

I am not going to argue with you, because you have clearly made up your mind as to how you feel about DAs. As one myself, I can say though that it's incorrect. Your opinion rests on the incident you've described to me, and that's fine. I fully am aware of and understand the Bill of Rights and the laws we have to protect us. And that's what DAs do. If someone chooses to believe DAs are "political animals" out for blood at any cost, then so be it.

 

[ray9898]

I am not going to argue with you, because you have clearly made up your mind as to how you feel about DAs. As one myself, I can say though that it's incorrect. Your opinion rests on the incident you've described to me, and that's fine. I fully am aware of and understand the Bill of Rights and the laws we have to protect us. And that's what DAs do. If someone chooses to believe DAs are "political animals" out for blood at any cost, then so be it.

I fully agree with you on the role DA's fill in our system. This topic has totally jumped the shark. Everything and anything is a target right now as long as it allows continued this speculation and accusations about NK. The infatuation with her that started once there was nothing new to talk about with CW is shocking.

 

[Annicade]

I don't believe anyone said NK was a killer!

DAs use all tools, assets, etc., available to them.

DAs' main goal is convictions and they pursue all avenues available to obtain convictions. That is one way they get re-elected!

I believe the ethics of DAs, in general, is questionable based on the number of innocent people convicted and guilty people set free. DA Roark was exemplary.

When the plea agreement was made, taking DP off the table, there was NO DP on the table. No decision had been made yet about seeking the DP, so why the rush by the defense? Something spurred them and CW forward.

As history has shown us, anything can happen during a trial, and does, and very few cases are really "open and shut", that is why so many cases, especially high profile cases go to trial. Again; why the rush to end things by the defense and CW?

IMHO, the DA recognized CW's weakness; the desperation to protect NK (see interrogation videos) and used it along with the autopsy results to pressure the defense, and it worked.



MOO BBM

I am with you Poet!!! Thinking the same way.
Of course we don't know the evidence of the "deleted" texts and missing days of documents discoveries, but I would BET there is definetly incriminating evidence on some level of NK's knowledge of murder....not to mention the deleting of important records after the fact......Not sure the exten but I bet there was enough to press charges.
I would bet they put pressure on CW and said look, we have all this information on NK's phones, your phone, deleting evidence....if you don't tell us the truth Chris, NK is going to go to jail too and you can avoid that if you really tell us what happened to those girls............We can keep her out of jail, if you tell us what really happened to those girls... You don't NK going to jail for your actions Chris....She loves you....You don't want her to think you wouldn't save her by telling the truth........you don't want your last convos out there......we can make a deal with you Chris if you tell us the truth about how you killed your children........we know you had it hard the last few days alone taking care of your girls...we know you didn't plan for them to die.......but we know something happened and one them woke up.....Chris, we know you were stressed....NK knows how much you loved them and it wasn't meant to bae them.......I can only imagine the excellent WORK the detectives did....I wish we could see it......you get my point.....the investigators and DA work hand and hand and will SEEK JUSTICE as well as keep things out of documents for pleas. Plea being.......NK's deleted messages, nude pictures.... all NK's contradicting lies with her initial interviews.....
Whether it to be deleting texts, possible CW admitting to her of the murder in text then he and she deleting and her not reporting it (just theory of what might have been said in the deleted texts ) Would the DA and crime unit investigators use that information to have CW plea bargain???? Does the DA weigh his options of letting that be the plea because he knew that it would be a hard battle to win for a jury to have reasonable doubt? That is where my mind goes. I know many criminals who work charges off as well as seeing plea deals where less serious crimes are not prosecuted for a bigger agenda.

 

[Noreen McGurl]

Good post. However there's not a doubt in my own mind that she knew Chris's wife was pregnant. No one as tech savvy and in control of a relationship such as NK would not FB her boyfriend's wife and family.

If we had access to her texts, calls, facetime with Chris after early a.m. Tuesday, I think we would see that she was not at all surprised to find out that SW was pregnant.

TV

 

[BioInspector]

Do I believe her she erased the messages only because she was mad at him? No. I can think of a bunch of other reasons:

• She didn’t want explicit images out in the public.
• She panicked.
• She was worried about public shaming.

Her behavior during the interviews, psychologically speaking, was to distance herself from CW because she felt guilty (note: feeling guilty does not equate to *being* guilty). I think this is the part where the DA felt she was “for the most part” forthcoming because she downplayed their relationship. If she was more reflected, mature, self-assure and not afraid of public shaming, she probably would have put all cards on the table. In hindsight, it makes her look bad, but I don’t get how that makes her accountable for CW‘s acts.

I have a problem with the notion some nude photos and her trying to get him committed to her made CW do what he did. Likewise, I have a problem with the idea SW‘s behavior made CW feel trapped. CW is not a victim of these two women in his life, no matter how you want to spin it.

I think this case shows how many people have problems differentiating between potentially immoral and criminal behavior. I fully agree her actions were self-serving, but to conclude she manipulated CW to make him take out his family and that she masterminded the whole thing is a loooooong shot.

Maybe I missed something but has there been any official confirmation LE was not able to restore all of her/his messages? Why does everyone think the FBI, CBI, DA only had those messages available that were shown in the discovery docs? It was not their job to display to the public how NK is innocent of a crime. They cherry-picked a few messages to make their case against CW. That was their job. It was not their job to make NK look good.

Had there been any evidence NK co-conspired, they‘d both be in prison. If the DA says there is no reason to charge her with anything, I believe him.

Man, oh man. Where to begin?

The police stated they could not recover most of the deleted texts off her phone.

You don't get to obstruct justice for any excuses of a reason like, "I was afraid they'd see my nudies." That's not how the law works. So who's talking about immoral vs. law here????

Personally, I haven't seen any nude photos, and I don't want to see them. She gave her supposed motive for deleting the texts, but it was a lie. She coordinated with the man who just murdered his wife and kids that they should both hide evidence of their interactions and cover up the affair. "Psychologically speaking" this woman's narcissism was on full display in the police interviews. She showed absolutely no concern for the murder victims, she invented a narrative that if she knew his wife was pregnant she would have cut off the relationship immediately. Ask yourself why she invented that narrative. Her entire interview reeked of covering her own behind and portraying herself as somehow good in all this. (I encouraged him to repair his marriage, LOL).

No one is "accountable" for anyone else's acts. But it's possible to be an accomplice, and that deserves punishment too. Another possibility: It's possible to have been his motive for those actions because of the message she was constantly stressing: It has to be me and only me, I want firsts, I want to experience what you built with your wife and kids, etc. If she is the motive, then we have to investigate thoroughly to make sure she didn't commit a crime herself and that she never encouraged him to murder or get rid of his family somehow. Because you know, that's could be a criminal act too.

Why you think holding her accountable for everything she did, and making sure we get to the bottom of everything she said and did, is somehow absolving him, is something I won't sit here and ponder. It makes no sense. He is evil and he is being punished for his crimes. We want to make sure that if she did something illegal and evil that she is fully punished too. We value justice for the victims. No one needs to see her underpants.

 

[BioInspector]

Discovery doc page 655 (BBM):

On August 22, 2018, I, Colorado Bureau of Investigation Agent KEVIN KOBACK, met the Thornton Police Detective DOUG PARKER at the Thornton Police Department to pick-up downloaded information from NICHOL KESSINGER’s cellular telephone IPhone . Detective DOUG PARKER provided the attached documents that shows the contents of the phone, both active and deleted material. Detective PARKER also attempted to search the downloaded .RY files for any material dated from August 11, 2018 to August 1, 2018. That material was downloaded to a PDF document and was later booked into evidence at CBILakewood along with the complete .RY file download that was completed by Detective PARKER. No other analysis was completed on the phone data.
-Nothing further-

Isn't it stated elsewhere that not all the deleted data could be recovered? This would represent only that which was able to be recovered.

 

[BioInspector]

Welcome to Websleuths, BioInspector !!​

Thanks!

 

[BioInspector]

I think they have it all. Why would they need to release all retrieved materials? They made a selection (called review). For example, SW‘s phone had 29,796 SMS messages | 1,581 MMS messages and 477 entries in the call log. Not all of them were related to CW. We‘ve maybe seen 0.5% of her SMS. Those that were deemed relevant. It‘s no different when it comes to NK‘s phone. To think they withheld any messages implicating NK is far fetched. Cui bono?

They released all the direct interactions with CW that they were able to restore. Conveniently only a lot of irrelevant stuff was recoverable. Look for example at the text about the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's one example of a text that makes no sense on its own when pulled out of the context of what came before and after - but none of that before and after could be restored. It's a bunch of texts like that without replies and out of sequence from the prior ones. There are even cases where they have texts on CW's phone to her, that were not recovered from her phone. It's clear that a bunch of it was lost thanks to her arduous scrubbing.

 

[Noreen McGurl]

Lets face it, I can 99% guarantee that if this piece of you know what monster I hate the word, to put it nice, low life, did not take this plea bargain, I can guarantee that the mistress would have been investigated more and would have been found culpable for input into this horrific crime, she was a part of it and if nothing else she is the epitome of what we should teach our loved ones, sisters, daughters to Not Become!! Sorry but Not because I know that there is no way she did not know he was married with two young beautiful babies and one on the way and she put herself in the middle of a bad predicament and I would not want to be in her shoes but she put herself there and walked in them

 

[BioInspector]

Snipped by me for clarity.

I believe the DA's office indicated that the September 2017 date was a typo.

Where is the evidence that they ever indicated such a thing? What date was it a typo for?
They published that date it in the discovery documents released to the public.

 

[Noreen McGurl]

Don't get me wrong he is the monster that did all of this horrific evil, but after reading all that I did about the facts involved and the lives of everybody affected I can't help but think that there was other factors of temptation that contributed to this nightmare.

 

[cybervampira]

Man, oh man. Where to begin?

The police stated they could not recover most of the deleted texts off her phone.

You don't get to obstruct justice for any excuses of a reason like, "I was afraid they'd see my nudies." That's not how the law works. So who's talking about immoral vs. law here????

Personally, I haven't seen any nude photos, and I don't want to see them. She gave her supposed motive for deleting the texts, but it was a lie. She coordinated with the man who just murdered his wife and kids that they should both hide evidence of their interactions and cover up the affair. "Psychologically speaking" this woman's narcissism was on full display in the police interviews. She showed absolutely no concern for the murder victims, she invented a narrative that if she knew his wife was pregnant she would have cut off the relationship immediately. Ask yourself why she invented that narrative. Her entire interview reeked of covering her own behind and portraying herself as somehow good in all this. (I encouraged him to repair his marriage, LOL).

No one is "accountable" for anyone else's acts. But it's possible to be an accomplice, and that deserves punishment too. Another possibility: It's possible to have been his motive for those actions because of the message she was constantly stressing: It has to be me and only me, I want firsts, I want to experience what you built with your wife and kids, etc. If she is the motive, then we have to investigate thoroughly to make sure she didn't commit a crime herself and that she never encouraged him to murder or get rid of his family somehow. Because you know, that's could be a criminal act too.

Why you think holding her accountable for everything she did, and making sure we get to the bottom of everything she said and did, is somehow absolving him, is something I won't sit here and ponder. It makes no sense. He is evil and he is being punished for his crimes. We want to make sure that if she did something illegal and evil that she is fully punished too. We value justice for the victims. No one needs to see her underpants.

Being a motive or catalyst is not a crime. Next thing, you will find yourself in jail if some nut job murders your kids because you say you wish you had more time for yourself. Deleting text messages is a bad thing to do when there is a missing person investigation, but at that time that’s all it was - no crime had occurred. Is there a law in CO where that would qualify as obstruction of justice?

I get you have made up your mind about NK’s criminal involvement. That’s fine, but I think a further discussion is not fruitful when the line between fiction and facts is blurred and when personal feelings about appropriate moral behavior creates an urge to make baseless criminal allegations and question the integrity of the DA, CBI, and FBI.

The DA said he will not go on a witch hunt, and I don’t think he said that to cover anything up. There simply was nothing to prosecute.

Let’s agree to disagree.