GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67

[BioInspector]

This sounds as if she *knew* he was going to kill his family, and she not only didn’t stop him from doing so, but encouraged him to do it. Really? Who in his right mind expects a man annihilating his family instead of simply getting a divorce? Like the DA said, his actions are incomprehensible. Why do we expect NK to figure it all out if nobody else can?

The problem I have with these insinuations (”she fanned the flames“) is that it takes culpability away from men. Kind of like Eve who ensnared Adam to eat the forbidden fruit. Or like Mama Watts‘ answer to ”What happened with Chris?“ - ”Shannan“. Neither SW nor NK ”made“ him do anything, and to suggest NK planted the ”bad seed“ in his brain, that she pushed him, and even went along with it, is making CW look like the poor boy who didn’t have a choice because he was love drunk and NK was the one who should have stopped it all. It‘s the year 2019 (Happy New Year again), and we still talk about how men cannot control themselves when they see nude photos or copulate? I don’t want to live in a world where men can say ”She was hot, she made me do it!“.

As I said many times before, NK is not a likeable person, but I think NK‘s role in this terrible crime is completely blown out of proportion. Yes, she could have said she deleted her messages because she was ashamed. She didn’t. She could have displayed less of a “Dude“ attitude. She didn’t. But the obsession with NK and some posts make CW look like a weak-willed teddy bear who met that sneaky seductress. Sorry, but I think CW is 100% responsible, and if it wasn’t NK who crossed his path, it would habe been someone else, and he‘d have done the same.

I can't DISAGREE more with this than I already do.

She obstructed the investigation of a missing pregnant wife and children, whose names she could barely force herself to utter. She deleted her correspondence with the murderer and clearly lied about why she did. She even deleted her correspondence with her best friend ABOUT the murderer. Now why would those texts have to be deleted if you suddenly got mad at your lover (supposedly because he lied to you... all while you insisted that he lie to his wife about you)? And why do I say she obviously lied about her motive for deleting the history of interactions? Because if she was mad at him and wanted him out of her life, she would not have stayed in contact with him. But she did continue to contact after she TOLD HIM to delete their interactions (she admitted that part, remember?). And if she was truly mad, she could have saved all those texts and used them against him with the police. But we know she deleted those texts to save her own behind, not because she was mad, or because a liar lied.

It all implies she had something to do with this and was complicit in the crime. Allegedly.

 

[cybervampira]

I can't DISAGREE more with this than I already do.

She obstructed the investigation of a missing pregnant wife and children, whose names she could barely force herself to utter. She deleted her correspondence with the murderer and clearly lied about why she did. She even deleted her correspondence with her best friend ABOUT the murderer. Now why would those texts have to be deleted if you suddenly got mad at your lover (supposedly because he lied to you... all while you insisted that he lie to his wife about you)? And why do I say she obviously lied about her motive for deleting the history of interactions? Because if she was mad at him and wanted him out of her life, she would not have stayed in contact with him. But she did continue to contact after she TOLD HIM to delete their interactions (she admitted that part, remember?). And if she was truly mad, she could have saved all those texts and used them against him with the police. But we know she deleted those texts to save her own behind, not because she was mad, or because a liar lied.

It all implies she had something to do with this and was complicit in the crime. Allegedly.

Do I believe her she erased the messages only because she was mad at him? No. I can think of a bunch of other reasons:

• She didn’t want explicit images out in the public.
• She panicked.
• She was worried about public shaming.

Her behavior during the interviews, psychologically speaking, was to distance herself from CW because she felt guilty (note: feeling guilty does not equate to *being* guilty). I think this is the part where the DA felt she was “for the most part” forthcoming because she downplayed their relationship. If she was more reflected, mature, self-assure and not afraid of public shaming, she probably would have put all cards on the table. In hindsight, it makes her look bad, but I don’t get how that makes her accountable for CW‘s acts.

I have a problem with the notion some nude photos and her trying to get him committed to her made CW do what he did. Likewise, I have a problem with the idea SW‘s behavior made CW feel trapped. CW is not a victim of these two women in his life, no matter how you want to spin it.

I think this case shows how many people have problems differentiating between potentially immoral and criminal behavior. I fully agree her actions were self-serving, but to conclude she manipulated CW to make him take out his family and that she masterminded the whole thing is a loooooong shot.

Maybe I missed something but has there been any official confirmation LE was not able to restore all of her/his messages? Why does everyone think the FBI, CBI, DA only had those messages available that were shown in the discovery docs? It was not their job to display to the public how NK is innocent of a crime. They cherry-picked a few messages to make their case against CW. That was their job. It was not their job to make NK look good.

Had there been any evidence NK co-conspired, they‘d both be in prison. If the DA says there is no reason to charge her with anything, I believe him.

 

[Mamamiamaria]

Yes. Because Shanann described it to her friends that it was his idea which made her all the more confused now that he was telling her he didn't want it and didn't want to be together with her. 'Why did you convince me to get pregnant? '
I also think so because it was Chris who kept telling detectives that having another baby doesn't save a marriage, doesn't bring back the spark in a relationship, etc. Only a moron would have thought that in the first place, and the primary moron in this story is CW.
Here's what I think happened in sequence: He hadn't gotten hot and heavy yet with mistress NK, and given his wife's newfound business success, he thought it would be a good idea to have another kid and try for a boy. Then he started dabbling in his affair and lost the "spark" for his wife as he lit a fire for the temptress. So when they found out she's pregnant, he thought to himself, maybe when we have that kid, I'll go back to my wife. And he told NK the same thing. And she told him, "no no no no no no no" Chris, " having another baby does not bring back the spark for your wife, it cannot save a relationship, trust me." Just like she told him lots of things that he regurgitated to the police in the interrogation room. I think almost all the things he said to describe the "conversation" with his wife that never took place that morning, were basically things NK told him before which he used to describe that talk.

I know I read in the files that they had assistance/fertility treatment to conceive the 2 girls. Why then was there a "let's try again" discussion/decision made without any talk of the cost and assistance that might be necessary this time around ? In the event it happened naturally but surely this would not have been expected given the history.

What I am asking really is if he was only making the suggestion of having another child with expectation that it most likely would not happen ?

 

[kaykay543]

I know I read in the files that they had assistance/fertility treatment to conceive the 2 girls. Why then was there a "let's try again" discussion/decision made without any talk of the cost and assistance that might be necessary this time around ? In the event it happened naturally but surely this would not have been expected given the history.

What I am asking really is if he was only making the suggestion of having another child with expectation that it most likely would not happen ?

I agree. CW never thought she would really get pregnant without treatments. I think he did it to appease her.

I think people forget that FA’s are notorious for having no long term plan in place. Which is why so many commit suicide right before they know they will be arrested. If you look up FA’s CW is text book.

I am also a bit mystified over the obsession seen here with NK. I don’t like her; but I am surprised she continues to be the main conversation on this thread.

 

[NuttMegg]

I know I read in the files that they had assistance/fertility treatment to conceive the 2 girls. Why then was there a "let's try again" discussion/decision made without any talk of the cost and assistance that might be necessary this time around ? In the event it happened naturally but surely this would not have been expected given the history.

What I am asking really is if he was only making the suggestion of having another child with expectation that it most likely would not happen ?

He might have been, but how would any of us know that they did not have any talk about cost and assistance that might be required this time around?

 

[NuttMegg]

Maybe I missed something but has there been any official confirmation LE was not able to restore all of her/his messages? Why does everyone think the FBI, CBI, DA only had those messages available that were shown in the discovery docs? It was not their job to display to the public how NK is innocent of a crime. They cherry-picked a few messages to make their case against CW. That was their job. It was not their job to make NK look good.

Had there been any evidence NK co-conspired, they‘d both be in prison. If the DA says there is no reason to charge her with anything, I believe him.

Co-conspiracy is exceedingly hard to prove, IMO. She had an alibi, IIRC, with her friend who had the key to her house and was there Sunday night. LE had the "bird in hand", and going after "birds in the bush" may have given CW impetus to demand a lawyer.

What happened to their mutual texts after Monday night? She says she found out on Tuesday through media, IIRC, that her boyfriend's missing wife was pregnant. Why were those texts/calls from Tuesday morning on withheld in the doc dumps, or had they been deleted? They did not text on Tuesday as she learned about the pregnancy? She and he did not text while he was at the Thayers? Or during the time period he went to pick up his father, up to the time he was with LE?

 

[cybervampira]

Co-conspiracy is exceedingly hard to prove, IMO. They had the "bird in hand", and going after "birds in the bush" may have given him time to demand a lawyer. What happened to their mutual texts after Monday night? She says she found out on Tuesday through media that her boyfriend's wife was pregnant. Why were those texts/calls from Tuesday morning on withheld in the doc dumps, or had they been deleted? They did not text on Tuesday as she learned about the pregnancy, which is what she said? She and he did not text while he was at the Thayers?

I don’t think anything was withheld in the doc dumps, but that those texts were probably irrelevant to the case if all they included were a bunch of repetitive lies by CW. Lies we heard many times (I‘d never do anything to my precious kids, I don’t know where they are, they were just gone, blah). They had enough material to nail him. They are not obliged to satisfy the public‘s curiosity. They had one job to do, and they did it.

 

[NuttMegg]

I don’t think anything was withheld in the doc dumps, but that those texts were probably irrelevant to the case if all they included were a bunch of repetitive lies by CW. Lies we heard many times (I‘d never do anything to my precious kids, I don’t know where they are, they were just gone, blah). They had enough material to nail him. They are not obliged to satisfy the public‘s curiosity. They had one job to do, and they did it.

I'd say their texts from Monday night thru when he picked up his dad would be highly relevant. Why disclose that she searched info on how much Frey's book made, but her communications with the murderer after the fact aren't important, assuming there was no deletion?

 

[cybervampira]

I'd say their texts from Monday night thru when he picked up his dad would be highly relevant. Why disclose that she searched info on how much Frey's book made, but her communications with the murderer after the fact aren't important, assuming there was no deletion?

Where‘s the incentive to protect her? The person commenting the review document didn’t even seem to like NK at all (”lntermixed with her creepy giggles...“, and the *advertiser censored* search, and the Amber Frey search).

I just can’t see a logical reason why they should be withholding texts where NK implicates herself. They would have used this material to kill two birds with one stone IMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

Where‘s the incentive to protect her? The person commenting the review document didn’t even seem to like NK at all (”lntermixed with her creepy giggles...“, and the *advertiser censored* search, and the Amber Frey search).

I just can’t see a logical reason why they should be withholding texts where NK implicates herself. They would have used this material to kill two birds with one stone IMO.

She had an alibi, her buddy with the key, on the couch. Yes, I'd say a step or 2 more difficult indicting a person as a "co-conspirator" when 1) that person has an alibi and 2) the actual killer appears to have no plan to accuse her as being in the conspiracy, in fact is accusing his own wife instead.

This is not the same as the Carter girl who pressured her boyfriend to kill himself, even for that she got very little time in jail and it was not cut and dried. 15 months for encouraging someone to kill themselves at the exact time he is in the car, with the gas, expressing his doubts. That should have been 10 years in jail, IMO. Michelle Carter, Convicted for Texts in Boyfriend’s Suicide, Appeals – Rolling Stone

I will just keep arguing when statements are made that LE was able to recover all her deleted texts. I don't recall reading that. If they could have recovered all the deleted texts, they would have released the texts which occurred between NK/CW for the several days after the murders. (Maybe they did, I can't find them, can you?)

 

[cybervampira]

Maybe they did, I can't find them, can you?

Discovery doc page 655 (BBM):

On August 22, 2018, I, Colorado Bureau of Investigation Agent KEVIN KOBACK, met the Thornton Police Detective DOUG PARKER at the Thornton Police Department to pick-up downloaded information from NICHOL KESSINGER’s cellular telephone IPhone . Detective DOUG PARKER provided the attached documents that shows the contents of the phone, both active and deleted material. Detective PARKER also attempted to search the downloaded .RY files for any material dated from August 11, 2018 to August 1, 2018. That material was downloaded to a PDF document and was later booked into evidence at CBILakewood along with the complete .RY file download that was completed by Detective PARKER. No other analysis was completed on the phone data.
-Nothing further-

 

[molly1255]

She had an alibi, her buddy with the key, on the couch. Yes, I'd say a step or 2 more difficult indicting a person as a "co-conspirator" when 1) that person has an alibi and 2) the actual killer appears to have no plan to accuse her as being in the conspiracy, in fact is accusing his own wife instead.

This is not the same as the Carter girl who pressured her boyfriend to kill himself, even for that she got very little time in jail and it was not cut and dried. 15 months for encouraging someone to kill themselves at the exact time he is in the car, with the gas, expressing his doubts. That should have been 10 years in jail, IMO. Michelle Carter, Convicted for Texts in Boyfriend’s Suicide, Appeals – Rolling Stone

I will just keep arguing when statements are made that LE was able to recover all her deleted texts. I don't recall reading that. If they could have recovered all the deleted texts, they would have released the texts which occurred between NK/CW for the several days after the murders. (Maybe they did, I can't find them, can you?)

I have been wondering about those texts as well. I have not found them, either. I think those texts would be extremely important, JMO.

 

[borndem]

Welcome to Websleuths, BioInspector !!​

 

[nanwv]

Detective DOUG PARKER provided the attached documents that shows the contents of the phone, both active and deleted material.

Does this mean they have the deleted but chose not to release all of her retrieved materials?

If yes, I wonder what else they did not release.

If yes, do we now know they pick and choose what to release?

 

[cybervampira]

Does this mean they have the deleted but chose not to release all of her retrieved materials?

If yes, I wonder what else they did not release.

If yes, do we now know they pick and choose what to release?

I think they have it all. Why would they need to release all retrieved materials? They made a selection (called review). For example, SW‘s phone had 29,796 SMS messages | 1,581 MMS messages and 477 entries in the call log. Not all of them were related to CW. We‘ve maybe seen 0.5% of her SMS. Those that were deemed relevant. It‘s no different when it comes to NK‘s phone. To think they withheld any messages implicating NK is far fetched. Cui bono?

 

[Thepoet]

I would like to discuss BOTH CW and NK, hopefully with some perspective;

CW is stupid, this is evidenced by;
1. He should have kept his mouth shut and requested an attorney. He didn't!
2. He should have requested consulting an attorney and NOT his father! He didn't!
3. He should have refused the Polygraph test. And certainly not taken one WITHOUT an
attorney present! He took the polygraph, without advice of counsel and counsel present. (DID HE REALLY BELIEVE HE WOULD PASS IT???)

CW is easily manipulated, as evidenced by the videos of his interrogations and polygraph.

CW was NEVER concerned with his family, but was DESPERATE to protect NK. This is evident in the interrogations, and I'm sure LE and the DA used this to their benefit, which probably included securing the "plea agreement".

We know, based on NK's own words and behavior that she is a liar, selfish, and manipulative. Had there been a trial there would have been more and deeper investigations and things might have turned out differently for NK! We'll never know what might have been revealed or how different the outcome may have been for NK, because CW caved and pled out. The DA's work was done.

I believe that at the very least NK was an "unknowing participant" in the murders, because I believe she manipulated CW in many ways, including the intensity of the relationship, and by contributing to his pathology. We know she regretted not having certain "firsts" with CW and made that known. We can assume she disparaged Shanann every chance that had (like his Mother did!) . We can assume she made comments about his family being a barrier to their (CW and NK) happiness. And, I think we can assume that NK conveyed the idea that CW would be better off without his family! There is much in NK's comments and behavior that supports these assumptions. If NK said; "If you'd get rid of your wife, we'd be so happy," wouldn't mean she would want anyone murdered or that she would believed that CW would interpret her words that way. But she did engage in an illicit relationship, she did disparage Shanann and CW's life with Shanann, and NK did fan the fires of passion as high as they would go. She had to know there would be some kind of consequences. Unless she's incredibly stupid and very ill-informed! There were consequences, horrible consequences, and NK shares responsibility for that, whether or not, she was charged with a crime. NK knew that the affair was morally wrong, she knew (by her own words) the affair was harming CW's family, and she knew the affair violated company policy and, if discovered, would lead to her and CW's termination (it did!)! In legal parlance; she had "DIRTY HANDS! She didn't care when it was morally wrong! She didn't care when it harmed Shanann and the girls! She didn't care when it violated company policy! She didn't care that CW could be terminated, with a devastating effect on he and his family! She only cared when it finally impacted her! And that tells us a great deal about NK!

MOO! BBM!

 

[Thepoet]

I think they have it all. Why would they need to release all retrieved materials? They made a selection (called review). For example, SW‘s phone had 29,796 SMS messages | 1,581 MMS messages and 477 entries in the call log. Not all of them were related to CW. We‘ve maybe seen 0.5% of her SMS. Those that were deemed relevant. It‘s no different when it comes to NK‘s phone. To think they withheld any messages implicating NK is far fetched. Cui bono?

To think they didn't withhold any messages implicating NK is far fetched. Why would they release everything? LE typically withholds information. We also don't know what agreements were made. Logically, there's much more than we know. n'est-ce pas?

BBM

 

[nanwv]

Why would they need to release all retrieved materials? T

Just trying to figure out how this works.

Why they would release some but not all, and how they choose what to release, etc.

If you are knowledgeable in this, appreciate in advance, your sharing how authorities decide what to release to the public.

 

[NuttMegg]

Discovery doc page 655 (BBM):

On August 22, 2018, I, Colorado Bureau of Investigation Agent KEVIN KOBACK, met the Thornton Police Detective DOUG PARKER at the Thornton Police Department to pick-up downloaded information from NICHOL KESSINGER’s cellular telephone IPhone . Detective DOUG PARKER provided the attached documents that shows the contents of the phone, both active and deleted material. Detective PARKER also attempted to search the downloaded .RY files for any material dated from August 11, 2018 to August 1, 2018. That material was downloaded to a PDF document and was later booked into evidence at CBILakewood along with the complete .RY file download that was completed by Detective PARKER. No other analysis was completed on the phone data.
-Nothing further-

Thanks for taking the time to look that up, but I'm not so sure that means they retrieved all deleted material beyond knowing that something WAS deleted. Repeatedly, when listing the texts of NK, CW, and SW, they referred to texts appearing on SW's phone that had been deleted from CW's. ie messages to him that he deleted so they remained only on SW's phone, which is how LE found them.

Anyway, I'm mainly wondering, and still wonder, why the interviews with the CBI did not refer to text or calls between CW/NK made after the very early morning of Monday. IE when there were people "missing". NK said that the very early Tuesday morning calls, facetime, texts, should be considered part of Monday, IIRC. That's where the tape of the interview ended, from what I can tell. So, it appears they did not show the interview asking about her physical actions, and re text, phone calls to CW, on the days after the murders, after late Monday/continuing on to Tuesday early. All of Tuesday through when he picked up his father the next day. While he was at the Thayers, when he wasn't at the PDept. After bringing Dad to the station, I think he didn't have access to the phone. As I mentioned before, maybe they did release the tape of that part of her interview, but I can't find it.
As a poster mentioned a few days ago, in the doc dump that you were quoting from, the interviews with NK are just summarized. There is a lot more detail in the interview tapes, and there does not seem to be a transcript available online, you have to just invest most of a day and watch the interviews and listen to the phone calls LE/NK.

 

[cybervampira]

Just trying to figure out how this works.

Why they would release some but not all, and how they choose what to release, etc.

If you are knowledgeable in this, appreciate in advance, your sharing how authorities decide what to release to the public.

I’m simply using common sense. The prosecution chooses evidence that supports what they need to prove. Do they need to print 100,000 SMS to do that? Most definitely not.

The defense team (had this gone to trial) would have picked a different set of SMS trying to prove them wrong.

I‘m not a law expert, not even based in the US, but I‘ve watched enough trials to get a good idea how it works.

Do you think it is unusual to present extracts as evidence?