GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #69

[Doghairrules]

If ever there was a murder case that needed to go to trial, this was it. People are going to argue this case in the court of public opinion for the next one hundred years because there is too much/not enough info on what may or may not have happened. Basically lies and gossip. No facts or evidence to convince a jury to convict or acquit. Just back and forth and the words of more than one liar. If and until he goes on trial, there is nothing really more to say that will give anyone a definitive conclusion.

I have tried but I still don’t get where you’re coming from or what your point is. We have 2000+ pages of facts in this case and are about to get more. We have a guilty plea AND a full confession. I’m confused.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

So what is CW claiming - that he "had" to kill Bella because she saw him wrapping up Shanann's body? Why kill CeCe then? It doesn't make sense.

The whole rolling SW's body in a sheet thing does make me wonder again about that Facebook picture of the doll wrapped up. Not to re-start that conversation. It just seems like he had pre-meditated this to me.

ITA. It was a message to her. Look what I'm planning for you.
MOO

 

[katydid23]

Yeah, a crime of passion is something that happens when emotions suddenly run high and you react due to a strong impulse that you might not normally have. He had almost 45 minutes of drive time alone to lose that "passion." I think this was all pre-mediated but he wasn't able to kill the girls at home. Maybe he was going to but Bella woke up and he chickened out. He may have used that drive to think about how he could let them live and not be accused of murdering their mom. Second guessing his plan. But then when he got to the oil site he went through with it because the babies just didn't fit into his plans. I think he was always going to kill all 3. He may have had a moment of doubt on the journey, but I don't think it was a strong one. He wanted NK. He wanted that new life.

Yes. I am totally convinced that he knew the girls were going to die because WHY else would he drive out to the oil tanks?

He could have buried his dead wife anywhere---especially somewhere that he didnt work, where it would be so obvious for them to check out immediately.

IMO, once he headed for the oil tanks, he knew he was going to kill those poor sweet baby girls. He is one of the most disgusting excuses for a father I have ever known.

 

[TxMother67]

I have never understood how they seem so detached from their grandchildren either... very rarely do they even use their names

I'm sure the Rzuceks can see this also. That is why, imo, they agreed to the interview with Dr. Phil. They want the world to know that Shanann did NOT kill her sweet babies and that the girls had one set of grandparents that adored them as they should have been.

 

[mtnlites]

I'm sure the Rzuceks can see this also. That is why, imo, they agreed to the interview with Dr. Phil. They want the world to know that Shanann did NOT kill her sweet babies and that the girls had one set of grandparents that adored them as they should have been.

And yet there are still people out there who don't believe it. You can't fight crazy with logic-they're usually better armed.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

If ever there was a murder case that needed to go to trial, this was it. People are going to argue this case in the court of public opinion for the next one hundred years because there is too much/not enough info on what may or may not have happened. Basically lies and gossip. No facts or evidence to convince a jury to convict or acquit. Just back and forth and the words of more than one liar. If and until he goes on trial, there is nothing really more to say that will give anyone a definitive conclusion.

So you still want him to take a chance at the death penalty? Lie more. Stick with the Shannan killed Bella,and CeCe horse manure?

 

[gitana1]

I’m wondering what the podcast is? Can anyone share the details?

I’m in Australia so I haven’t seen the dr Phil episode yet. But based on what I’ve read here I wonder if his initial plan was make Shannan disappear that night and then report her as a missing wife. Live happily with NK and the girls. His plans may have all gone off script when Shannan arrived home much later than expected. Perhaps Bella waking and seeing what he had done was the point he figured he’d kill them both too. He is so evil. It’s truly frightening.
Thanks everyone for sharing the details of the episode.

Oh she didn't want his girls. She claims she didn't tell him that but i think she made her feelings clear by pouting, complaining about not being able to get a hold of him, wanting constant reassurances that she was more important than his kids, etc.

"I questioned NICHOL about mentioning the children and not liking that WATTS has children. NICHOL
said she was not sure he was the one she was going to spend her life with and she did not like that he already
had children as WATTS has already done everything in reference to marriage and children. She talked about
having her own life with a man who has not been married and does not have kids. NICHOL said this
conversation was eclusive to her and CHARLOTTE and she never talked with WATTS or anyone else
about this information." Pg. 617 of discovery.

Despite her apartment shopping with him, I think she subtly made him fully aware that she resented his children. And she was high maintenance I think. He couldn't afford kids and her. (All those trips and jewelry he was searching for, for her. But no wife to bust her tail to fund it all, or work to get it free). He had to get rid of them.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm sure the Rzuceks can see this also. That is why, imo, they agreed to the interview with Dr. Phil. They want the world to know that Shanann did NOT kill her sweet babies and that the girls had one set of grandparents that adored them as they should have been.

Typically, you would consider both sets of grandparents victims here.

That went out the door when they went on tv, and inflicted tremendous pain upon the Rzucek family.

They trashed their daughter, pointed the finger at her, and all but accused her of murder.

The discovery documents made it clear that this was not an isolated incident, and they were not loving grandparents.

The Rzucek’s have been forced to go on the offense, and fight back against these vile human beings.

It should never have been that way, but is necessary none-the-less.

Good for them.

 

[k-mac]

little nico…
lets not forget that monster killed his son .
I hope he has been shown pictures of him and his death birth.

 

[kaykay543]

I don’t believe the girls were alive in the truck.

My theory on why he is (once again) lying. IMO he is trying to make it seem as if it was not premeditated. In his warped mind; it puts him in a better light to say they were alive— verses he pre planned the entire thing for weeks- and that the girls were dead before SW ever got home. I think in his mind, that would upset his family even more.

We have to keep in mind he’s not normal. His brain doesn’t work like a humans brain. Which is so obvious in the porch interviews, FBI interviews etc.

Like others have said there is probably truth sprinkled in here and there.

You can never trust the word of a narcissist.

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t believe the girls were alive in the truck.

My theory on why he is (once again) lying. IMO he is trying to make it seem as if it was not premeditated. In his warped mind; it puts him in a better light to say they were alive— verses he pre planned the entire thing for weeks- and that the girls were dead before SW ever got home. I think in his mind, that would upset his family even more.

We have to keep in mind he’s not normal. His brain doesn’t work like a humans brain. Which is so obvious in the porch interviews, FBI interviews etc.

Like others have said there is probably truth sprinkled in here and there.

You can never trust the word of a narcissist.

Bella begging for her life, doesn’t make him look any better, likely even in his own mind.

If he was going for that angle, he would have left that part out.

 

[gitana1]

In my experience religious affiliation and how deeply one believes seems to have correlation to whether they will do unethical things or even break the law. But that's just my observation. I think human beings in general are hypocritical creatures.

Not me! Some of the best, most ethical people I have ever known are atheists or agnostic. And in my years working at religious schools (which I did), some of the most hateful, bigoted people I've ever met called themselves religious or people of faith.

But I find the question fascinating. Can a psychopath believe in God? If not, why not? I wondered this a lot during the casey anthony case. Did she ever lay awake and worry about her soul?

 

[gitana1]

I don't know the Watts family and am grateful for that, but it seems like all the questions surrounding them and "how could they ______?" can be answered by remembering where Chris got his DNA. Not to say they are murderers and monsters too, but they may very well lack in the empathy arena too. I hope we don't hear from them after the release, but I imagine we will. Ugh.

Yuuup.

 

[ReckoningDay]

I think I've caught up. I watched the shadow video and unlike most, I'm not sure. I watched the one where it was slowed down and toggled back and forth to show how his head was in a different direction from the shadow and I'm still not sure.

There were lights from different angles that could cast weird shadows. He backed his truck into the garage for a reason - so no one would see what he put in it. Why would he then risk people seeing the kids he was going to kill (and pretend had disappeared) walking out of the house to him and being placed by him into the truck? It doesn't even seem like he turns his head around to see if anyone's watching.

It could be the girls. But I can't be positive. I'm not saying he didn't transport them to the site to kill them but I have a feeling he would've carried them quickly to truck in a way they wouldn't be seen.

I also don't think Bella uttered the words that are being repeated here. "Please don't do to me what you did to Cece." Not sure how many of you have kids or have worked with preschoolers but that is a grammatical sophistication that's beyond most kids that age. I think she probably did say something to him if he's telling the truth, but I'm not sure what. Probably just, "No Daddy! Are you going to hurt me? Don't!" Something simpler.

The thought that he picked up those little angels, held their bodies and put them in his truck and then quietly drove for 45 minutes to the site and methodically smothered them, is terrifying. It's beyond understanding.

Those who are saying they saw him on video and in photos prior to the murders and no way would they have been able to guess at his level of depravity? I'm totally with you. It's bizarre how normal he seemed before this.

The dreaded podcast everyone is talking about? Just to let everyone know, giving them thumbs down does nothing. Every time someone clicks on her videos she's gaining attention and popularity.

I am confused as to the fact that such ignorant sociopaths have any following at all? It's like people enjoy being bullied and watching others be bullied. It's gross.

I can't fathom how the Rzuceks are surviving this. They must have an incredible faith. They lost almost their whole family. They lost their precious children. And after that they have been kicked repeatedly when they were down by evil, gossipy monsters questioning CW's guilt and turning on poor SW, who wasn't perfect but who was special and kind and a wonderful mother.

I don't know how they survive it. I really don't.

You made a point that has been bothering me. Part of me largely believes this confession (although I do think there was some premeditations. But then this wording that Bella used. Like you, it does not sound natural for a 4 year old. (We have all seen previous video clips of Bella, and that was not her normal speech.) So that begs the question. WHAT is his motive for saying things that make him look even WORSE? Why does he want us to think Bella begged for her life?? Thoughts? Theories, fellow Sleuthers?

 

[gitana1]

You'll be a pro in no time!

I will never forget Ma Watt's being asked, "What happened to Chris?" And her answer, "SHANANN HAPPENED!"
MOO

That was revolting. It showed exactly who she is. Who Chris is. That is what he came from. That utter hate, ugliness, bitterness and viciousness.

Can you imagine being Shanann's poor parents and hearing someone say that about your murdered child?

 

[MassGuy]

You made a point that has been bothering me. Part of me largely believes this confession (although I do think there was some premeditations. But then this wording that Bella used. Like you, it does not sound natural for a 4 year old. (We have all seen previous video clips of Bella, and that was not her normal speech.) So that begs the question. WHAT is his motive for saying things that make him look even WORSE? Why does he want us to think Bella begged for her life?? Thoughts? Theories, fellow Sleuthers?

Perhaps because she did.

One thing to remember too, this quote from Bella, passed from investigators, to the Rzucek’s, to their attorneys.

Something could have been lost in translation.

Once Thursday comes, we’ll have more context.

 

[mtnlites]

Not me! Some of the best, most ethical people I have ever known are atheists or agnostic. And in my years working at religious schools (which I did), some of the most hateful, bigoted people I've ever met called themselves religious or people of faith.

But I find the question fascinating. Can a psychopath believe in God? If not, why not? I wondered this a lot during the casey anthony case. Did she ever lay awake and worry about her soul?

Not in my experience, either. As an agnostic, I might not set my moral compass by a creator or figurehead, but I still have a moral compass. And some of the most horrible people I know have been "religious." This really is a case-by-case basis.

 

[tmar]

Chris Watts' chilling confession: Killer dad strangled his pregnant wife and smothered daughter Cece, 3, with her favorite blanket while sister Bella, 4, looked on - then fought and begged for her life


Chris Spargo
4 hrs ago

The mother of Shanann Watts is claiming that she knows how her daughter and two granddaughters were killed, and sent her lawyer on The Dr Phil Show to share the information.

Steven Lambert said on Tuesday that Shanann's husband Chris Watts killed his wife and their unborn child after admitting he was having an affair with another woman.

Next, he smothered daughter Celeste, 3, according to Lambert.

He killed Bella last, whom evidence has suggested fought back against her father, but when he killed her is unclear.

Lambert claims at one point that Bella may have been alive in the truck despite the fact that Watts' vehicle was captured by a neighbour's surveillance camera on the morning of the murders, suggesting Bella would have been visible.


That video however shows no signs of Bella.
..
'The night in question Shanann came home. She and Chris had got into a fight. They made up. They were getting along really well,' said Lambert.

'Later on, they got into a fight again. In that fight he essentially confessed to having an affair, that he wanted a divorce. That it was pretty much over between them, and she had said something to the effect of, "well you're not going to see the kids again."'

Lambert then added: 'As a consequence of that conversation he strangled her to death.'

After murdering his wife and unborn son Nico, Watts turned his attention to 3-year-old Celeste.
..
'He walks over and takes Cece's favourite blanket and smothers her. At that point, Bella says: "Please, daddy, do not do to me what you just did to Cece,"' said Lambert.

'And then he killed Bella.'

Lambert then seemed to shift the timeline however by suggesting Celeste was not murdered until she and her sister arrived at the site where authorities eventually found their bodies.

'Personally, I think the worst for those girls - it's a 45-minute drive, if he did load them onto the floorboards, like we have been led to believe,' said Lambert.

'Obviously the question becomes how much were Bella and Cece aware of what might have been happening in those 45 minutes on that drive to where their bodies were placed?'

DailyMail.com attempted to see if the CBI or FBI miht be able to confirm any of these claims, but neither agencyn responded to request for comment.

 

[Bravo]

IMO he confessed as in his mind he will be saved. Emphasis on "he"

 

[Bazinga]

Oh she didn't want his girls. She claims she didn't tell him that but i think she made her feelings clear by pouting, complaining about not being able to get a hold of him, wanting constant reassurances that she was more important than his kids, etc.

"I questioned NICHOL about mentioning the children and not liking that WATTS has children. NICHOL
said she was not sure he was the one she was going to spend her life with and she did not like that he already
had children as WATTS has already done everything in reference to marriage and children. She talked about
having her own life with a man who has not been married and does not have kids. NICHOL said this
conversation was eclusive to her and CHARLOTTE and she never talked with WATTS or anyone else
about this information." Pg. 617 of discovery.

Despite her apartment shopping with him, I think she subtly made him fully aware that she resented his children. And she was high maintenance I think. He couldn't afford kids and her. (All those trips and jewelry he was searching for, for her. But no wife to bust her tail to fund it all, or work to get it free). He had to get rid of them.

Yes, I think you are right here. I didn’t really consider NK and what was driving CW. NK did say something like she didn’t like it that he had been there done that regarding kids. And the way she said she thought it was “cute” that he had kids wasn’t convincing at all. CW is pure evil and it’s so hard to wrap my mind around. It’s why this case is so compelling and shocking as he apparently lived a fairly law abiding life prior to this period of time and these murders. And then for the murders to be so extreme and shocking and for CW to be able to carry on that day. Scary to think of what might be lurking below the surface of some people. I also find NK repulsive to be honest.