GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

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magicforest

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I'm still figuring out how to post here so apologies in advance. @MassGuy, wow, I'm so glad you are on this forum because your on-point logic and knowledge is so helpful regarding how to make sense of this how-can-you-possibly-make-sense-of-this person named CW...along with @gitana1 @PommyMommy and many others.

I'm also so grateful for @Colorado303 ...thank you for sharing your heart, your vulnerability through this unfathomable personal tragedy with your friend Shannan. You are a true champion of Shannan, Bella, CeCe and Nico, as well as the Ruzack family. I love and resonate with your earlier post about moving on, taking what I've learned from this, letting CW and all his unfathomable sick pathology go slide under a rock that I don't want to overturn anymore (I'm a Social Psych major so it's hard), and instead, go live life fully, do what I know how to do best, with the biggest heart full of love, and #ShineLikeShannan. Thank you again for sharing your hearts here. So grateful.

That was the point.

They probably had to take a shower the second they left that prison.

That must have been incredibly hard, but it was the strategy they developed beforehand.

They executed it well.
 

MassGuy

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It's weird. Is it possible that he just appears that dumb because he just doesn't understand how normal people feel and because he doesn't realize the effect his words will have on others?

I mean someone cited him talking about The Rzuceks crying when the girls were leaving and how that surprised him. He couldn't understand it.
Actually, that’s a really good point.

He’s a bit like an alien from some other planet. He can’t really fit in, because he doesn’t feel what most people feel.

He doesn’t understand some of the things that we take as second nature.

This might be skewing our perception of him, because he appears so ignorant of basic human behavior.

He’s acting, and you can’t ever master that which you don’t understand.

When he’s uncomfortable, he struggles to pull off his charade, and he stumbles, mumbles, and bumbles his efforts.

It makes him appear stupid.

He might not actually be as dumb as he first appears.

Every bit as evil though.
 
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MemPat

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Upon further reflection on this I wonder if they noticed those shadows while studying the neighbors video on the same day CW was arrested? I recall that after CW had first confessed that the girls were in the oil tanks there was a point when the detective (or was it Tammy?) came back in and asked CW very seriously if there was any chance he put the girls into the oil tanks while still alive. Now why would the investigators even be thinking that was a possibility unless they saw those shadows and thought it might be the girls walking towards the truck?

MOO.

Maybe they thought this because Bella had oil sludge in her belly.
 

magicforest

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It's weird. Is it possible that he just appears that dumb because he just doesn't understand how normal people feel and because he doesn't realize the effect his words will have on others?

I mean someone cited him talking about The Rzuceks crying when the girls were leaving and how that surprised him. He couldn't understand it.
I think that's what confounds me most about CW. The obvious deadly combination of his stupidity plus his sociopathy via the familial upbringing via Ma (and probably Pa) Watts...but not in a way normally presented.
 

PommyMommy

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I'm still figuring out how to post here so apologies in advance. @MassGuy, wow, I'm so glad you are on this forum because your on-point logic and knowledge is so helpful regarding how to make sense of this how-can-you-possibly-make-sense-of-this person named CW...along with @gitana1 @PommyMommy and many others.

I'm also so grateful for @Colorado303 ...thank you for sharing your heart, your vulnerability through this unfathomable personal tragedy with your friend Shannan. You are a true champion of Shannan, Bella, CeCe and Nico, as well as the Ruzack family. I love and resonate with your earlier post about moving on, taking what I've learned from this, letting CW and all his unfathomable sick pathology go slide under a rock that I don't want to overturn anymore (I'm a Social Psych major so it's hard), and instead, go live life fully, do what I know how to do best, with the biggest heart full of love, and #ShineLikeShannan. Thank you again for sharing your hearts here. So grateful.
Welcome, magicforest. Nice to meet you. :)
 

Gardener1850

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I like the way you think!

Any idea if the doorbell cam picked up CW's movements that morning; would that have been the video the family saw? If the doorbell cam got video of the girls running around in the driveway, then being put in the truck after Shanann got loaded, and then CW driving off with the girls, that would have been game, set, match right there.

Thanks!

No, the doorbell camera was not in a position to capture the driveway IMO. There is doorbell camera footage of SW returning home where you can see the area it covered. CW left the front door locked and bolted and used the garage and driveway only for loading up his truck. The video with shadows came from the next door neighbor's security camera which was positioned to capture his own driveway but just happened to get the WATTS driveway in the background as well as any cars driving down the street. I think that is one of the reasons the video is not very clear. It wasn't focused on the Watts' driveway and it's somewhat far away. Also, there are lights from both houses plus the street lights casting strange shadows. That said, I think it's possible the original video was slightly better than the version released in a compressed file with the discovery release.

MOO.
 

gitana1

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The Shadow rumors have been circulating social media for months. I always scrolled past them because I thought it was ludicrous. After the Podcast people "broke" the story, I thought, what the heck, lemme see it myself.

I have to admit...seeing the trajectory of the shadows made me gasp out loud. It is so obvious. I wonder if LE noticed during their investigation.

I just finished reading the transcript and the description of CeCe and Bella's deaths had me sobbing. Somehow it was more comforting to think he did it at home in their sleep, that they never knew what was happening or who was hurting them. I feel sick to my stomach.

I, too, believe CWs confession is largely truthful. I am so pleased that he has cleared SWs name, but, my God, these details are horrific. I can't stop thinking about that family and their last moments.

How can there be so much evil amongst humans. :(

Yes. One thing though. I keep reading from people the thought of someone being murdered in their sleep. Unless they're shot in the head or something similarly instantaneous, no one is murdered in their sleep. Because the moment there's pressure on their face or their air supply is cut off they'd be bolt upright in panic and wide awake.

But yeah, if they were asleep when he started smothering them they would not know who was doing it if it was dark and their heads were covered, if that's what you mean.

Juxtaposed with the hideous narrative of two frightened little girls riding in the back seat with their mother's corpse, sensing they're in danger and everything is wrong, and then poor Bella who probably had the cognitive ability to realize her mama was likely dead, and who rode without the security and normalcy of a car seat, clinging to her sister with a growing sense of dread for an hour, she watched her daddy drag her mother's quiet, unmoving body from the truck, and then watched as he killed and disposed of her precious sister.

Then he came for her.

So we are talking about a lot of sustained suffering that would not be there if he killed them in their beds.

I can imagine those terrified and quiet little girls on that desolate car ride. Understanding something is wrong. Mama is not moving. Daddy is acting weird. Sensing the danger.

It's the stuff of nightmares. I wish I couldn't picture it.
 
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magicforest

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Welcome, magicforest. Nice to meet you. :)
So nice to meet you too @PommyMommy ! I'm grateful for your quest for truth and promoting collective love for mankind all at the same time -- you do it through your posts as well as your behind the scenes administration which takes time intensive commitment. It's remarkable. Thank you.
 

gitana1

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How do we know Chris didn't trade this interview for the move to the new jail, therefore escaping the inmates who were yelling for him to kill himself?

I think because prison authorities are a separate system and have zero to do with LE investigators or the DA. They make decisions about housing based on sets of protocols, threats, security needs. There are posters who can explain in detail as they know much better than I. But what I do know is there's no connection.

Also,he was candid and spoke to the Rzuceks civil litigation attorney who was shocked that he calmly admitted to the murders and was so openly willing to talk. It was right after that that the investigators ran over there to interview him, apparently.

Finally, from comments they made during the interview it appears he was not aware they were coming.
 

Gardener1850

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Maybe they thought this because Bella had oil sludge in her belly.

But they didn't know that at the time they were interviewing him right before his arrest. They asked if the girls were put in the tanks alive before they had recovered the girls bodies. He had only just pointed to the tanks on a map and a few minutes later the detective came in and asked CW if the girls were put in there alive.
 

LovesChocolate

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Maybe they thought this because Bella had oil sludge in her belly.
The investigators didn't know that yet at the time; he had just admitted where the bodies were so they were not yet recovered.

Yes. One thing though. I keep reading from people the thought of someone being murdered in their sleep. Unless they're shot in the head or something similarly instantaneous, no one is murdered in their sleep. Because the moment there's pressure on their face or their air supply is cut off they'd be bolt upright in panic and wide awake.

But yeah, if they were asleep when he started smothering them they would not know who was doing it if it was dark and their heads were covered, if that's what you mean.

Juxtaposed with the hideous narrative of two frightened little girls riding in the back seat with their mother's corpse, sensing they're in danger and everything is wrong, and then poor Bella who probably had the cognitive ability to realize her mama was likely dead, and who rode without the security and normalcy of a car seat, clinging to her sister with a growing sense of dread for an hour, she watched her daddy drag her mother's quiet, unmoving body from the truck, and then watched as he killed as disposed of her precious sister.

Then he came for her.

So we are talking about a lot of sustained suffering that would not be there if he killed them in their beds.

I can imagine those terrified and quiet little girls on that desolate car ride. Understanding something is wrong. Mama is not moving. Daddy is acting weird. Sensing the danger.

It's the stuff of nightmares. I wish I couldn't picture it.

BBM - Exactly my thoughts. I wish I couldn't picture it, either. I really did sob; thankfully I waited to read until my children were asleep and my husband busy in another room, though it's not the first time I've cried over this case. And everytime, I wonder why do I do this to myself?!
 

gitana1

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Upon further reflection on this I wonder if they noticed those shadows while studying the neighbors video on the same day CW was arrested? I recall that after CW had first confessed that the girls were in the oil tanks there was a point when the detective (or was it Tammy?) came back in and asked CW very seriously if there was any chance he put the girls into the oil tanks while still alive. Now why would the investigators even be thinking that was a possibility unless they saw those shadows and thought it might be the girls walking towards the truck?

MOO.

They probably would've said to him though that they had video of the girls going to the truck.
 
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gitana1

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He had no idea they were coming. He had no idea he was being recorded. He had no idea that what he said, would be released to the media.

What he did say, finally gave law enforcement, and most importantly the Rzucek’s, some answers.

There were people at the beginning of this case, who were literally accusing Shanann of killing her kids.

There were people who still believed that.

Ignorant, hateful, and vile trolls whose lack of intelligence and common sense, was weaponized against the Rzucek family.

Chris Watts finally used his words, to say “I killed them all.”

No, he didn’t tell the whole truth, but what he did do, was provide a measure of closure.

Law enforcement wanted this, and the Rzucek’s needed it.

Hopefully its provided them with some peace.

Standing ovation over here.
 

gitana1

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I'm still figuring out how to post here so apologies in advance. @MassGuy, wow, I'm so glad you are on this forum because your on-point logic and knowledge is so helpful regarding how to make sense of this how-can-you-possibly-make-sense-of-this person named CW...along with @gitana1 @PommyMommy and many others.

I'm also so grateful for @Colorado303 ...thank you for sharing your heart, your vulnerability through this unfathomable personal tragedy with your friend Shannan. You are a true champion of Shannan, Bella, CeCe and Nico, as well as the Ruzack family. I love and resonate with your earlier post about moving on, taking what I've learned from this, letting CW and all his unfathomable sick pathology go slide under a rock that I don't want to overturn anymore (I'm a Social Psych major so it's hard), and instead, go live life fully, do what I know how to do best, with the biggest heart full of love, and #ShineLikeShannan. Thank you again for sharing your hearts here. So grateful.

Welcome here! We'd love to get your psych. insights on various cases so hopefully you will post again.
 

skyedaze

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so why on earth would he drive them out there alive like that? Why didn't he just kill the girls in the house also? Did he want to make sure he was driving while it was dark?
If ur going to kill them why drag it out like that?
 

Ninja Bunny

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Thanks!

No, the doorbell camera was not in a position to capture the driveway IMO. There is doorbell camera footage of SW returning home where you can see the area it covered. CW left the front door locked and bolted and used the garage and driveway only for loading up his truck.

<snip>

MOO

I've seen both videos (the doorbell cam and the standard and close-up versions of the neighbor's vid). Facing the street, CW parked his truck in the right side of the driveway, the doorbell cam picked up parts of the left. I wondered if the girls were running around and if one or both might have run wide to the left toward the front door at any time and got picked up.
 

kkdj

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so why on earth would he drive them out there alive like that? Why didn't he just kill the girls in the house also? Did he want to make sure he was driving while it was dark?
If ur going to kill them why drag it out like that?
This is a question I keep asking. They could have been crying, freaking out, asking lots of questions, etc. on that long drive, knowing "Mommy" isn't moving. CW might have gotten really irritated with all of it.
I'm questioning if either child knew what death was at their ages, but they knew something was really wrong.
 

Mamamiamaria

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I am way behind everyone else and have listened to only a short amount of the interview so far.

One thing that jumped out at me was his referring to the nut incident with his mother as "nut gate" and laughing about it. Was this a term used by discussion groups after the murders or did Shanann refer to it as that ?

I thought it was created by on-line discussion, his comment gave me the impression of him sitting there, reading all about it on line and getting some sort of gratification from it all.

Insignificant comment from me in the overall scheme of things, but it is odd the things that hit you or jump out in something like this.
 

Tigerlily75

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I am way behind everyone else and have listened to only a short amount of the interview so far.

One thing that jumped out at me was his referring to the nut incident with his mother as "nut gate" and laughing about it. Was this a term used by discussion groups after the murders or did Shanann refer to it as that ?

I thought it was created by on-line discussion, his comment gave me the impression of him sitting there, reading all about it on line and getting some sort of gratification from it all.

Insignificant comment from me in the overall scheme of things, but it is odd the things that hit you or jump out in something like this.

My guess is he learned that term from his sister
 
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