GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[Misy]

“It’s not a typographical error in the report. [The detectives] are reporting what was contained in the data from her phone. I don’t know the answer to the question of why or how those dates ended up in her phone.”

‘This is not a witch hunt’: Chris Watts prosecutor cannot explain data from girlfriend’s phone showing Shanann Watts internet searches months before affair began

Thanks for replying, Gardenista! I’m sure that whatever I saw was more recent, and not an article but something more of an official report. Like a weld county or CBI report. Oh well that’ll teach me to make notes. At the time I just figured it was now common knowledge. Guess not. Wish I could find it again. If I do I’ll post it!

 

[Quinquin]

I don't believe the "straddling" her for 15-20 minutes, and during this time , "she flipped around", from being face down, to being face up (facing him and on her back) and having words about "never seeing the kids again". While he is sitting on her? Pregnant? She had "mascara running down her face" so I feel like they probably had a fight..a big, loud one. I think, logically, Bella probably woke up during this. I don't believe him when he says that they had sex that night, either. Shanaan "knew" that he was cheating (his words) and had been terribly upset on her trip (per her friends). Sex was probably the last thing on her mind after having the kind of emotional turmoil she must have been experiencing. The text messages between she and her close friends attests to that. Also, she still had on her bra when he killed her even though they had already had sex once that night. I know that that is a small and possibly inconsequential detail. I do believe there are some truths incorporated into his story but, for me, the devil is in the details. He is playing around with the chronology of that night, but more importantly, for us, the nuance of his "confession" is completely and strangely invisible. The sequence of events in his current "confession" just doesn't make sense. I'm trying but I just can't articulate why I don't believe he's told the full truth. JMO

 

[pinkie60]

Honestly, after being married for awhile, intimate life can get stale as all of us that have been married for a few years know. SW had some health issues, recently had a surgery, and dealt with chronic pain. Having health issues makes it hard to have sex at a moment's notice all of the time (I have chronic pain too). Chris was probably in shock that NK wanted to have so much sex. However, that is pretty common in brand new relationships when there is a lot of "romantic fireworks" and lust. I don't think NK wanting to have sex all of the time is abnormal for someone that's in a brand new relationship. Chris seems to emphasize how he felt like "himself", "in control", and with someone who wanted sex "all of the time". I think he liked how NK brought his ego up. He felt important. I don't blame NK because she didn't kill anyone. She's not all "roses" but she has not committed a crime and has had to suffer public and professional humiliation. I blame CW. CW did this to his family. CW could have stopped it and did not. CW could have chosen to get professional medical help for his problems. Chris is a very bad person.

I'm still listening to the audio and CW has not yet given a reason that makes anyone feel any sort of closure for why he annihilated his family. I am still confused. I have been actually more upset and baffled after finding out how Bella died. She suffered. She saw everything. She said "Daddy NO". I have never been this traumatized personally by a case as I have with this one. Chris is an evil man.

Chris attacked an murdered not only his wife but little children. This grown man attacked and murdered a toddler who begged him, "NO". That is on another level of evil to me.

I agree with what you say. This case really gets to me too. It's so sad and so senseless
To clarify my point I meant maybe Chris took substances to boost he and NK's sex life like Viagra stimulants or steroids. You know to impress her. NK said he hardly slept. Could have affected his thinking process if it were so.

 

[nanwv]

Who even asks their mistress what they should do with their ex wife's ring? CW really did need to be spoonfed what to do in life.

And what "mistress" says "pawn it" minutes after the wife goes "missing". . . what a pair

 

[Charlot123]

I hope somebody can help me out here. I k ow I read where NK googling SW in “2017” was confirmed by the agency who included NK’s internet searches to have been a typo. It was confirmed that it was actually 2018. At the time I thought, ok, but I keep seeing people making a reference to her searches of SW back in 2017. I wish I could post where I saw that. Did anyone else see that? I thought this point was resolved.

Thank you. I first read that it was 2017, then that it was a typo, then, that that no, it was not a typo. I remember tons of discussions on it, but "not a typo" was my latest impression.
So, according to the latest news, it was still a typo?

 

[Charlot123]

After the murders and Chris had Shannans ring he texted NK and asked her what she thought it was worth. She told him to get it appraised. Does anyone think it's funny he didn't know how much the ring was worth? I mean he must have bought it for her or they bought it together wouldn't you think?

I think it was a veiled question whether NK would want this ring. Her advise meant, "no".

In itself, the question is telling. If his family disappeared and he talks to the lover about a ring, it definitely sends the message that the family will not be coming back. He knows it. The moment NK heard about the ring, she must have understood.

There are certain laws about the ring. In the case of the broken engagement, the ring goes to non-guilty party. Whoever bought it is irrelevant, who broke the engagement, is. But if the wife has worn it, owned it, it is still hers, whether she left it behind, or not. And she might change her mind and ask to mail it back to her. So his question must have spoken volumes.

 

[Charlot123]

Its definitely something to debate. The act itself obviously makes him a monster but was he really in life? If there were no red flags or no causes for concern then we are left with somebody who lost his mind over somebody else which probably drove him to dispose of his current wife and life.

I can imagine how someone in his situation could kill a wife, impulsively. It is a horrible act, but it happens.

But after that, there was enough time to make a choice. The kids - that was not impulsive. He had the time to think it over. So, a monster.

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

I am having trouble believing Chris Watts when he says it was a rage killing. Chris Watts said in the audio that he rarely got mad and angry. Chris Watts admits he was a passive individual who was comfortable going with the flow and not upsetting Shanann by disagreeing with her. While he admits Shanann was never violent, he says she had her mom’s temper and was social. Chris was the quiet introvert that was desperate to please rather than engage in confrontation. However, he lacks empathy on a dangerous level.

I think Chris Watts is incapable of empathy. Personally, I honestly think his lack of empathy could be pathological. I think Chris Watts planned their murders. I think he enjoyed feeling respected by NK, enjoyed NK wanting to have sex with him all the time, and liked that NK made him feel “like himself” and “in control”. He says NK allowed him to make decisions and choose.

To be blunt, Chris was a big baby his entire life. He followed Mommy, was compliant in allowing Mommy make all of his decisions, and was more comfortable letting Shanann make all of his decisions instead of “getting her mad”by telling her “No”. NK made Chris feel like a “grown up” and being an individual who lacks empathy, he decided he liked his life with NK better and believed he could outsmart LE by throwing his family away as if they were disposable because to Chris, everyone except for himself is disposable. Agent Coder asks him about "As a family man, were you attempting to 'go with them'?" in regards to murdering the children and committing suicide but Chris stumbles around it and says "I feel I didn't deserve to live" but IMO it's another lie.

Chris Watts is a proven liar. Chris also cares about how people perceive him. He doesn't want his employers to know he's a bad guy because "they think I'm a good guy". Chris would rather avoid problems than say "No" and make someone mad. Chris did not want the case to go to trial and "make it worse" and was embarrassed "all of Shanann's Thrive friends knew". He apologized to Agent Coder for lying to him. Given this, I think Chris believes it looks "better" for the public to think it was rage killing than: a monster who brutally annihilated his pregnant wife and little children in order to live with a mistress. Chris wanted to be the victim and say "Shanann left with the kids and ran away." Chris wanted to be the victim and say "Shanann did it". Now, Chris wants to be the victim who was bullied by Shanann and bullied by CO prison inmates.

 

[Safeguard]

I don’t think a therapist could save someone who can murder a pregnant wife and his two toddler children.

Right? I tell ya, these recent cases have almost made me look more favorably on men who merely abandon their families! Formerly lumped in the "Scum Of The Earth" category... Now however, I feel almost grateful that at least they just go: " I can't take these people anymore!" And "disappear" themselves! o.0

 

[NanZDrew]

IMO, this is partly because he is the one telling the story and can frame it any way he likes, and partly because he may not have the insight into his marriage or his emotions to know exactly what made him so angry at her. Reading between the lines of what he’s then and now, and how he’s acted, speaks to a lot of resentment to me, even if he hadn’t explicitly expressed it.

I think we also have to remember that in addition to CW's family trying to poison his mind against SW, NK was doing the same. Here she was creeping on SW's social media and using that information to plant seeds in his mind. An example is when she said their house was way too much house. She and CW could have a small ranch style house. She took the known stressors and masterfully made SW the source of all the problems while she (NK) would be the answer to all his problems. You know, CW's mom and NK were so much alike and they were both shouting in his ears.

 

[Safeguard]

rsbbm

I don't think he ever actually told SW about NK or asked for a divorce. He never even researched anything to do with divorce, child support, custody, etc - wish the interviewers had asked him about that.
I think he was obsessed with NK and felt that she was already starting to slip through his fingers, even before all of the difficulties a divorce was certain to create had begun.

I don't think any conversation took place either. S was tired and ill. I think he probably just let her fall asleep. There didn't seem to be any signs of a struggle and a vicious argument would have her at least sitting up, I would think and able fight him somewhat.

I can totally believe the affair with NK was a catalyst. Once knew a perfectly sane happily married man, who turned into a madman almost overnight...His wife was so bewildered why he was so angry at them all, and raging all the time. Seemed like he hated her and the kids.

She literally thought he was losing his mind, or on drugs! But nope, turned out he was just having an affair. The other woman was also married, and the two of them were crying on each others shoulders about how bad things were at home and he obviously wanted to make it true!

They didn't end up together after all, just ruined two marriages and damaged six kids. I have learned it's pretty common in affairs, the need to villainize the spouse to justify their miserable, unconscionable choices.

 

[NanZDrew]

I am having trouble believing Chris Watts when he says it was a rage killing. Chris Watts said in the audio that he rarely got mad and angry. Chris Watts admits he was a passive individual who was comfortable going with the flow and not upsetting Shanann by disagreeing with her. While he admits Shanann was never violent, he says she had her mom’s temper and was social. Chris was the quiet introvert that was desperate to please rather than engage in confrontation. However, he lacks empathy on a dangerous level.

I think Chris Watts is incapable of empathy. Personally, I honestly think his lack of empathy could be pathological. I think Chris Watts planned their murders. I think he enjoyed feeling respected by NK, enjoyed NK wanting to have sex with him all the time, and liked that NK made him feel “like himself” and “in control”. He says NK allowed him to make decisions and choose.

To be blunt, Chris was a big baby his entire life. He followed Mommy, was compliant in allowing Mommy make all of his decisions, and was more comfortable letting Shanann make all of his decisions instead of “getting her mad”by telling her “No”. NK made Chris feel like a “grown up” and being an individual who lacks empathy, he decided he liked his life with NK better and believed he could outsmart LE by throwing his family away as if they were disposable because to Chris, everyone except for himself is disposable. Agent Coder asks him about "As a family man, were you attempting to 'go with them'?" in regards to murdering the children and committing suicide but Chris stumbles around it and says "I feel I didn't deserve to live" but IMO it's another lie.

Chris Watts is a proven liar. Chris also cares about how people perceive him. He doesn't want his employers to know he's a bad guy because "they think I'm a good guy". Chris would rather avoid problems than say "No" and make someone mad. Chris did not want the case to go to trial and "make it worse" and was embarrassed "all of Shanann's Thrive friends knew". He apologized to Agent Coder for lying to him. Given this, I think Chris believes it looks "better" for the public to think it was rage killing than: a monster who brutally annihilated his pregnant wife and little children in order to live with a mistress. Chris wanted to be the victim and say "Shanann left with the kids and ran away." Chris wanted to be the victim and say "Shanann did it". Now, Chris wants to be the victim who was bullied by Shanann and bullied by CO prison inmates.

...and seduced by Nichol. He had no choice in the matter. Always the victim. Always spineless. Remember in the original discovery how he talked about how SW always stood up from him. She would defend him against his family and mother. Meanwhile, the crybaby sat in the corner sucking his thumb while SW fought for him and made his family hate her because she would not allow herself, Chris, or her children to be bullied by the Watts.

 

[NanZDrew]

Kinda can't wait for Nichol to read that Chris said she was bipolar and would fly off the handle at the least little things, and he had practically had to talk her off the ledge a time or two. You know, Nichol, the brillant, calm, analytical, reasonable one. How long before she makes a reply to the press?

 

[NanZDrew]

And what "mistress" says "pawn it" minutes after the wife goes "missing". . . what a pair

Yeah, and she was not the one that was materialistic. (Sarcasm intended).

 

[NanZDrew]

Thanks for replying, Gardenista! I’m sure that whatever I saw was more recent, and not an article but something more of an official report. Like a weld county or CBI report. Oh well that’ll teach me to make notes. At the time I just figured it was now common knowledge. Guess not. Wish I could find it again. If I do I’ll post it!

Even if the one in August was a typo (which I don't believe it was), the ones in December (I believe) and January were not. That was still a full six months from when they say they started talking.

 

[NanZDrew]

I think it was a veiled question whether NK would want this ring. Her advise meant, "no".

In itself, the question is telling. If his family disappeared and he talks to the lover about a ring, it definitely sends the message that the family will not be coming back. He knows it. The moment NK heard about the ring, she must have understood.

There are certain laws about the ring. In the case of the broken engagement, the ring goes to non-guilty party. Whoever bought it is irrelevant, who broke the engagement, is. But if the wife has worn it, owned it, it is still hers, whether she left it behind, or not. And she might change her mind and ask to mail it back to her. So his question must have spoken volumes.

Brilliant!

 

[Safeguard]

Thank you for the two audio interviews @PommyMommy . Are there anymore? I am shocked that I am only a few minutes in and Chris is victimizing himself by saying he was ALL ALONE in the jail cell at Colorado because anytime he was around people “They knew why I was there and threatened me”.

Imagine that. He felt threatened, poor baby. ( How scared were you Chris? Pfffttt!) Just when I don't think I can hate this guy any worse...

 

[Hazelnutty]

You know, once snakes start eating something, they eat and eat until everything is gone. If two snakes both start eating the same mouse, the snake that gets its head over the head of the other snake first will eat the other snake just because it is in feeding mode. With NK and CW, the question was who would gets its mouth over the over first.

This analogy! Now I picture them as a pair of writhing poisonous serpents. The both of them!

 

[Jessthinkin]

Imagine that. He felt threatened, poor baby. ( How scared were you Chris? Pfffttt!) Just when I don't think I can hate this guy any worse...

Yup, and their suggestions about how he should kill himself in the toilet bowl hurt his feeling (singular intended).

 

[Safeguard]

Thanks much for your professional comments.

After watching the vacation video (week prior to murder) of girls at the beach for the first time, and CW's obvious detachment from his children, I believe he intended to kill the girls. If/when CW wanted to be a dad again, he could reproduce with NK or other willing mate.

However, I do remain perplexed why CW didn't smother the children at home -- making the drive and disposal more convenient for himself. Unless CW wanted one last moment where all 4 were together and he could finally say that he had a moment when he was in total control, SW silenced forever, dead on the truck floorboard.

I don't think he cared about the whole power trip, or having the four of them together. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed. I think after he killed S he just wanted to get her out of the house as quickly as possible. I do wonder why though, once he was at the site, why did he kill Cece right in the back seat next to Bella? You would think he might have taken her out of the truck, more room, more convenient for him, wouldn't have any mess in the truck ( sucked just typing that!).
but poor Bella... Why did he make her watch her beloved baby sister die? It makes no sense, ( not that any of this does!), unless he planned to just kill them both in rapid succession, ( is the only thing I could come up with as a possibility), but for some reason he couldn't do both?