GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. NuttMegg

    NuttMegg Well-Known Member

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    dup
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
  2. DaisyKenny

    DaisyKenny Well-Known Member

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    In my uneducated opinion, they had more than enough to detain him for questioning after the wellness check on reasonable suspicion that he committed a crime just based on the fact her purse, phone, meds, etc, were still inside and basic common sense dictated that the only way his family could have left that house was in his truck.

    I also believe they should have considered the possibility of an accomplice from day one since there very well could have been a plan to have someone else dispose of her car.

    During the prison interview, I recall him being prodded to admit how he didn't like Shanann forcing him to be in those FB videos and a number of questions about those caffeine-enhanced Thrive patches, but not a single question about what he might have planned to do with her car.

    They did ask about why he looked up the "Battery" lyrics, and he told them NK had asked him about their meaning, but it wasn't right before arriving or right after leaving the oil site, even though he did indeed do so right after disposing of his family. Not a single followup question about that obvious lie.

    When asked about his contact with NK after the murders, he told them that NK had texted him weird questions the day after asking him the name of her yoga studio and the name of her dog, and only after confirming he had access to the phone and not LE, did she instruct him to delete everything.

    Yet somehow the detectives thought that NK might have believed Shanann had access to his phone, so she was asking him questions about his dog and his yoga studio, which made absolutely zero sense, especially since NK knew that Shanann and the girls were still missing.

    Regarding the recovery of texts between NK & CW, I only recall seeing maybe a dozen in the discovery and those were provided to them by NK. The discovery specifically mentioned that none the texts from their work phones were recovered. There should have been hundreds if not thousands of texts between those two since they were texting each other constantly. What happened to those?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
  3. NuttMegg

    NuttMegg Well-Known Member

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  4. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    That is correct but the photo originated with CW.
     
  5. Artis

    Artis Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure considering how Cindy demonized Shannan from the git go and even got the family to boycott their wedding.
     
  6. NuttMegg

    NuttMegg Well-Known Member

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    OK guys, admittedly I'm a little foggy on this one, but how could Ronnie have pulled the doll photo from SW's FB account (she posted it after CW sent it to her via phone in the first place on Thurs Aug 8, IIRC) if he had de-friended her while she was in NC? Unless there is proof I will keep assuming that CW gave it to Ronnie on the way to Frederick from the airport. Or that Ronnie saw it on CW's FB site when the photo was re-posted by SW (?)
     
  7. Pasasana

    Pasasana Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do know that. Sorry, I wasn't clear about it.
     
  8. Pasasana

    Pasasana Well-Known Member

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    I believe that since her FB was set to public, he'd be able to see it even if he had unfriended her.
     
  9. riolove77

    riolove77 Verified Attorney

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    Hindsight is 20/20 and to imply that because Shanann's purse and car were home, the police should automatically have known everyone was dead and gone is a little much. Also, you can never detain someone for questioning, period. Even when someone is arrested and charged, they control whether they will be questioned or not. There was no way to save anyone's life here; they came and took a report, noticed some things were off, but in no way did they have enough to arrest and charge him that first night.
     
  10. NuttMegg

    NuttMegg Well-Known Member

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    LOL you are probably right. Unfriended in name only, he knew he could look at hers but made sure she couldn't look at his. But still he could have got it off of CW's site, no? CW's site would still have been showing SW posts at that point. Anyway SOMEHOW Ronnie had that post all ready to show law enforcement at the same moment he was stricken with grief over the deaths of his grand daughters.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
  11. Artis

    Artis Well-Known Member

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    I didn't follow the case here. I followed through the press, TV, and Youtube so I may be sketchier on the details but here's my thoughts, based on what I recall:

    I'm sure Chris was suspected from the beginning. You cannot detain or arrest someone on that, though. People have constitutional rights. Even the neighbor's video, and Chris' obvious sweating bullets, was not enough to arrest him, because it didn't show him carrying bodies or anyone but Chris. Investigators moved quickly to interrogate him and by Wednesday, he was no longer a free man. He basically confessed before a full scale search even commenced - and it would have commenced and they would have found Shannon's body at the site. But, it never got that far (a search) because they broke him and they did it fast. I thought it was some pretty stellar handling of their suspect.

    As for NK... I know how people people feel about her and that some suspect she was an accomplice. She's so despicable that that's totally understandable. That said, imho, she was a predatory, selfish homewrecker and not a murderer. When she asked those questions (yoga studio, dog's name) I think she had really believed (and hoped!) that Shanna left, up to that point, and was just beginning to suspect that something worse had happened. She was worried about being exposed as a ho, not a murderer or accomplice. I don't think she was sure and she may have thought it was Shannon or the cops with Chris' phone. On Monday, she believed Chris about Shannan leaving with the kids (and she was glad!). Once she saw Chris on TV, didn't ask him why the media was there? That indicates, to me, she didn't know what was up and then it began to sink in and she got paranoid.

    I don't think Chris had a plan for the car. If he had, he would have gone to the site, ditched his family (as he did) and then called the office, saying he was sick or something, and had to go home. He would have then met NK and ditched the car. But he didn't, which indicates, to me, his ONLY plan was getting his family gone so he could be with NK. He didn't even think it through, beyond that. I think that's why he cracked so fast - unlike some other killers who don't.

    I don't know if you followed the Kelsey Berreth case where the other woman actually was an accomplice, after the fact (witnessed burning the body, destroyed evidence, cleaned the bloody murder scene and even lurked around to kill Kelsey, herself, prior to the actual perp killing her). Everyone hates her guts (she got a sweet plea deal to testify) and many want her to be guilty of the actual murder, but she wasn't. NK doesn't even come close to that, imo. I don't think she would have done anything like help dispose of Shannan's car, for two reasons: I don't think she would want to implicate herself in a crime and I don't she wanted a family annihilator for a boyfriend. She just wanted to steal Chris from his family and have her happily ever after, broken hearts be damned.
     
  12. DaisyKenny

    DaisyKenny Well-Known Member

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    Given they had video showing CW walking back and forth loading his truck and that same video proved there was no other possible way they could have left that house, I believe that more than met the "reasonable suspicion" threshold required for police to detain him in Colorado, which could have preserved a probable crime scene.
    And no, I don't believe the police should have already known everyone was already dead at that point, which is why they should have acted quickly that same day. IMO
     
  13. DaisyKenny

    DaisyKenny Well-Known Member

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    My main point in bringing up the yoga and dog questions was to point out just one of the obvious errors made by the detectives during the prison interview. That same error was even carried over to the redacted transcript.

    I'm not claiming that he definitely had a plan to dispose of Shanann's Lexus SUV, but it's been obvious to most of us here on WS's from the beginning that he planned their murders, which he finally confirmed in his letters to Cheryl Cadle. I just think the detectives should have followed up on that possibility, among other things.

    ETA:
    I also believe CW was well aware of the truck GPS, so even a stupid criminal like him should have realized LE was going to be inevitably led to CERVI 319. He probably thought if they found the Lexus abandoned elsewhere they wouldn't bother to check his worksite.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
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  14. Artis

    Artis Well-Known Member

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    Emphasis mine.

    That's where you're mistaken because that video did NOT prove that. Yes, it was suspicious but it wasn't proof and there are other ways she could have left that house, like walking out the door and leaving with someone else. Police cannot arrest or detain without evidence. Believe me, you don't want to live in a society where they can.

    Investigations take a little or a lot of time. They got him to confess so fast that they never had to commence a search or develop evidence. Their successful interrogation got him to hand it all over.

    • Reasonable suspicion is a reasonable presumption that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed. It is a reasonable belief based on facts or circumstances and is informed by a police officer’s training and experience. Reasonable suspicion is seen as more than a guess or hunch but less than probable cause.
    • Probable cause is the logical belief, supported by facts and circumstances, that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed.
    The difference between the two terms is that probable cause means there is concrete evidence of a crime, whereas reasonable suspicion is open to broader interpretation. Reasonable suspicion indicates that it appears that a crime has been committed; the phrase often is used to justify investigation into suspicious behavior when a crime may have been committed.

    When Do the Police Need Probable Cause?
    The police need only reasonable suspicion to stop an individual and question him or her, and they may search for weapons if they believe that the person is armed or presents an imminent threat of bodily harm. Probable cause must exist for the police to be able to arrest someone or obtain a search warrant.

    Reasonable Suspicion and Probable Cause: What’s the Difference?
     
  15. DaisyKenny

    DaisyKenny Well-Known Member

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    I believe the video proves exactly that, meeting the reasonable suspicion threshold.
    The front door was latched from the inside, making it impossible for her to leave in that way. If she left through the garage the video would have captured them leaving.
    It is not reasonable to claim that they might have left through the back door and climbed over the backyard fence, but IIRC even the back door was locked from the inside.
     
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  16. Artis

    Artis Well-Known Member

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    Followed up on what possibility - that he and NK had plans to ditch Shannan's car?

    While I don't recall the exact timeline, which was short, when NK asked those questions she had just begun to realize that there was more to the story than Chris was telling. It would have been reasonable to believe that his angry wife came home, got his phone, and was on the other end of the text. It would have been also been reasonable, if she thought a crime had been committed, to worry that it was the cops and that she could get in trouble and be implicated in something beyond adultery. I don't remember when she googled "can cops get your deleted texts", or whatever it was, but I believe that had to do with not wanting to be exposed as a homewrecker and have her reputation ruined. She tried to minimize the her own scheming over a married man when she doing stuff like googling wedding dresses and "Shannan Watts". I fully believe she knew Shannan was pregnant, making her look even worse. Remember she also googled "did people hate Amber Frey", so she was worried about what people would think of her. In fact, she was so worried about it that she went into witness protection (I'm assuming) and disappeared. She was certainly right about how people would perceive her and blame her for what happened and some even think she was directly involved in the crime. She'll never be free of that, on top having to live with knowing she was the impetus for Chris killing his family. I'd want to hide myself and my scheming, too, just for being such a vile, selfish skank.
     
  17. Artis

    Artis Well-Known Member

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    You're driving me crazy with that "reasonable suspicion"! LE has to have probable cause to detain or arrest and that is a higher threshold.

    I think you're failing to take into account how fast this all went down. He confessed within two days. Had he not, they would certainly have searched his work site and arrested him.

    As for the car, there is no evidence he planned to ditch it because he never would have left work that day had NA not gotten involved. Yes, he planned the murders but it doesn't seem as though he could see beyond that immediate gratification of being without a wife and kids to "be with Nikki".
     
  18. DaisyKenny

    DaisyKenny Well-Known Member

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    http://aclu-co.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/KYR-Colorado.pdf
    In Colorado, a police officer may detain you for a reasonable period of time if he or she has a reasonable suspicion that you are involved in criminal activity. 4 Being detained is not a full arrest, though an arrest could follow.

    You wrote: As for the car, there is no evidence he planned to ditch it because he never would have left work that day had NA not gotten involved.

    That's why I said he should have been questioned about the car because it might have turned up whether he had an accomplice or not.
     
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  19. La Louve

    La Louve For Whitney and Teghan

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    Despite my post last week I did watch the Oxygen episode of Criminal Confessions, because of the people involved in telling the story. Hearing from the neighbor about Bella's and Cece's personalities was so sweet. The detectives and DA were all top notch, very professional, and at the same time showed a lot of empathy.

    I LOVED the video of Tammy starting off the polygraph with all those warnings to stupid CW. I had previously only seen an edited version of it that was much shorter. She was great, putting him through the wringer and messing with his head. Astounding, how spectacularly he failed.

    I thought RW showed no emotion at all about his grandchildren, daughter-in-law and soon to be grandson being dead. That whole conversation with CW sounded rehearsed IMO.
     
  20. Artis

    Artis Well-Known Member

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    "Detained" would be like having your car stopped and being briefly questioned. Arrested and in custody requires evidence which they did *NOT have. Further, he went of his own free will to be interrogated and confessed, sparing the need for a lengthy investigation or search which would have taken longer than it took to have Chris Watts permanently behind bars.

    So, you're thinking that had investigators recovered all of the CW-NK texts and asked what he planned to do with the car that it would have shown NK was involved in the murders - like there, in the house, that night/morning?

    *correction
     

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