Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #5

[Dr.Fessel]

Did he have indifference to pain or actually not feel pain?

This is all I am going on.

“If that boy would’ve burned himself, he would not have known it or felt it physically,” Novia told The Associated Press in a phone interview. “It was my job to pay close attention to that.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/16/school_adviser_gunman_a_loner_who_felt_no_pain/

 

[jjenny]

Did he have indifference to pain or actually not feel pain?

Children who completely don't feel pain often ends up self-mutilated. I don't see any signs on him.
Read about this child. Parents had to pull her teeth so she wouldn't bite herself. Her eyes were also damaged.
I don't think he had anything close to this condition.

"Her desperate parents tried restraints and then goggles. But by the time Gabby was 4, she needed to have her left eye removed. Her right eye was also damaged, and she wears a lens over it to help her see better. Although Gabby is legally blind with 20/200 eyesight, she can still see shapes."
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/story?id=1386322#.UM83l6zwGSo

 

[Donjeta]

Sometimes autism spectrum disorders can be associated with reduced responsiveness to pain.

Children with Autism Spectrum Disorders such as autism or Asperger's syndrome see their world in a very different way. The filtering mechanism in their brains often works in a different way in assimilating the senses such as touch, smell, hearing, taste and sight. They may be extremely sensitive to some senses and find seemingly routine events fascinating - the patterns of light on a wall, or the rustling leaves in the wind. The autistic child may also be unresponsive to sensations that their parents find unpleasant, such as extreme heat, cold or pain.

http://www.autism-help.org/comorbid-sensory-problems.htm

There may be problems in recognizing and interpreting different sensations (although there are also some reports that adults may not always be able to reliably interpret the signs that autistic children are in pain).

 

[laniefi]

Did he have indifference to pain or actually not feel pain?

Not sure - but here is the article (sorry if it is a repeat):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...loner-teacher_n_2308641.html?utm_hp_ref=crime

 

[imamaze]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...school-shooter-adam-lanza-warned-me-about-him
Ex-babysitter says Newtown, Conn. school shooter Adam Lanza's mother warned: Don't turn your back
A man who says he once babysat for Newtown, Conn., gunman Adam Lanza says he recalls Lanza's mother warning him never to turn his back on the boy - not even to go to the bathroom.

Ryan Kraft now lives in Hermosa Beach, in Southern California.

But, he tells CBS station KCBS in Los Angeles, he was once a student at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., and babysat for Lanza when Lanza was about 9 or 10 and Kraft was 14 or 15.

 

[ontariolynn]

I'm reasonably sure that what I've got to say isn't going to be popular but, when I discussed the situation with my boys (11 and 13), they did me proud.

Keep in mind that I'm in the military and although I do my best not to "bring my work home with me," some things are simply bound to rub off.

I asked my boys if they knew what happened in Sandy Point and they said that they did and it was horrible. I then asked them if they knew what to do if they heard gunfire at their schools....my youngest just rolled his eyes and said "Duh, dad...hit the ground and play dead until it's safe to go hide somewhere." My oldest said "yeah..what he said. Because, you know, if you're standing up the guy that's shooting is just going to try to knock you down. If you're already down, he's not even going to bother to shoot at you."

Wow. And I didn't even teach them that, they just figured it out on their own.

I really think alot of it has to do with watching TV and playing video games, but glad to hear that you were happy with their answer.

 

[jjenny]

Sometimes autism spectrum disorders can be associated with reduced responsiveness to pain.


http://www.autism-help.org/comorbid-sensory-problems.htm

There may be problems in recognizing and interpreting different sensations (although there are also some reports that adults may not always be able to reliably interpret the signs that autistic children are in pain).

I think that is what was going on with him.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I believe I saw a link to an article that the shooter seemingly got worse following the divorce of his parents. I understand this. My parents divorced when I was an adolescent and it affected every facet of my life. My grades went down. I acted out for attention or withdrew when I often felt like I hated the world. There's so much more, but you get the point.

Has there been any news as to whether or not his mother had met a new man? I only ask because, when my own mother had a new boyfriend come into her life, my behavior problems became worse ten-fold.

Note: This is just an inquiry and I've seen no indication that NL had a new man in her life. JMO and all that stuff.

RE: The mother having someone new in her life, no, however the father had recently remarried (Link below). It has also been mentioned that the father had no contact with Adam since 2010 - this is extremely hurtful and damaging for a child to a) experience divorce + b) have no relationship with a parent after the divorce + c) see the absentee parent then remarry and, in essence, begin a new life/family without them. This certainly could be one of the sources of his anger IMO.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2249217/Sandy-Hook-shooting-Adam-Lanzas-father-Peter-new-wife-Shelley-Cudiner-fled-Connecticut-home.html

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...school-shooter-adam-lanza-warned-me-about-him
Ex-babysitter says Newtown, Conn. school shooter Adam Lanza's mother warned: Don't turn your back
A man who says he once babysat for Newtown, Conn., gunman Adam Lanza says he recalls Lanza's mother warning him never to turn his back on the boy - not even to go to the bathroom.

Ryan Kraft now lives in Hermosa Beach, in Southern California.

But, he tells CBS station KCBS in Los Angeles, he was once a student at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., and babysat for Lanza when Lanza was about 9 or 10 and Kraft was 14 or 15.

It begs the question, why? What was she afraid of happening? AL hurting himself or the babysitter or doing something stupid or dangerous otherwise? Why was it so dangerous to turn one's back on a quiet introverted intelligent child who was focused on building Legos and playing games?

 

[jjenny]

I am pretty sure that it wasn't the father who has not seen him since 2010. This was attributed to the older brother, and I am not even sure that is accurate, since it wasn't a direct quote.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

RE: The mother having someone new in her life, no, however the father had recently remarried (Link below). It has also been mentioned that the father had no contact with Adam since 2010 - this is extremely hurtful and damaging for a child to a) experience divorce + b) have no relationship with a parent after the divorce + c) see the absentee parent then remarry and, in essence, begin a new life/family without them. This certainly could be one of the sources of his anger IMO.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2249217/Sandy-Hook-shooting-Adam-Lanzas-father-Peter-new-wife-Shelley-Cudiner-fled-Connecticut-home.html

This is what I was feeling as well. He was in essence abandoned by his father (from what MSM is reporting) & brother. I knew the father had remarried but I wondered about his mother's love life.

*IF* she had someone new perhaps he felt like he would also be abandoned by her. He may very well have been feeling that already from his father and perhaps that abandonment was just one of the catalysts to this awful outcome.

Yes, I realize the father is also a victim and certainly not trying to put him down. My sincerest apologies if I come across that way.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I am pretty sure that it wasn't the father who has not seen him since 2010. This was attributed to the older brother, and I am not even sure that is accurate, since it wasn't a direct quote.

Yes jjenny, thank you for pointing that out. Let me add the following quote then;

"Lanza was estranged from his brother, Ryan Lanza, 24, and hadn't talked to his father since 2010, according to people who have known the family."

Link: http://articles.courant.com/2012-12-15/news/hc-adam-lanza-newtown-shooting-1216-20121215_1_law-officers-asperger-semiautomatic-rifle

 

[jjenny]

It begs the question, why? What was she afraid of happening? AL hurting himself or the babysitter or doing something stupid or dangerous otherwise? Why was it so dangerous to turn one's back on a quiet introverted intelligent child who was focused on building Legos and playing games?

If she thought he was dangerous, why would she take him to shooting ranges and teach him to use weapons?

"CBS News' Pat Milton reports a source briefed on the investigation said that Nancy Lanza was demanding of her children. Even though Adam was highly intelligent, she pressed him to high standards and even pressed her sons to measure up at the shooting range where she taught them to shoot, the source said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559546/in-divorce-mom-had-authority-over-conn-shooter/

 

[21merc7]

As much as we do need all of these mass killers analyzed as much as possible, I think this one may have some major differences from the others. I think his mind would be a bit more complex due to his mental disabilities. It will be helpful, whatever is found, but stand alone at the same time.

There were probably many, many contributing factors to this for him. I'm sure it was a lifelong build up, the frustration of being so high functioning, yet not quite functioning like others or able to express it. Any and all exposure to any upsets be it family, games, tv, internet, other people, other ideas, could all be taken in a manner that we would never comprehend as he may have thought in off key patterns. In fact, normal day to day events may have been processed in a manner we would not consider.

 

[Donjeta]

The estrangement, if any, may or may not have been the father's/brother's choice. It sounds like AL was pretty isolated from everyone so I am not certain he was even eager to have contact with his relatives.

 

[tlcya]

Yes jjenny, thank you for pointing that out. Let me add the following quote then;

"Lanza was estranged from his brother, Ryan Lanza, 24, and hadn't talked to his father since 2010, according to people who have known the family."

Link: http://articles.courant.com/2012-12-15/news/hc-adam-lanza-newtown-shooting-1216-20121215_1_law-officers-asperger-semiautomatic-rifle

Just jumping off yours here. The family dynamic is puzzling and with no facts to go on it is hard to understand how it is that the Lanza's were divorced, AL had little to no contact with brother, RL or dad. Dad paid more than the needed alimony and yet some report NL was angry and griped about dad. And still other reports say NL was still close with her former sister in law, who claims to have messaged NL on FB that very morning.

All of these things do not seem to fit well to form a picture, and none of this makes any sense when added up. That is why I am so reticent to put all my faith in some of these reports. They seem contradictory to one another.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Oh goodness, hope it's okay to post this

Adam Lanza's father 'struggling to make sense' of how shy 20-year-old turned into child killer... as nobody comes forward to collect bodies of gunman and his mother

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ense-shy-20-year-old-turned-child-killer.html

 

[flourish]

ITA. I feel for school staff. Doors will probably be checked over and over. Any sound out of the ordinary will put them on alert.

The ripple effects of such a horrendous incident go far and wide.

yep. Headed out in a little while...trying not to feel anxious...and I have the added bonus of a new co-teacher starting today in my classroom...I can't imagine how nervous she is this morning! Four days of classes until break, four days, I can do that...although I would so rather stay in bed all day

 

[cluciano63]

The estrangement, if any, may or may not have been the father's/brother's choice. It sounds like AL was pretty isolated from everyone so I am not certain he was even eager to have contact with his relatives.

My (mentally ill) brother has not spoken to any family members in years, except for one brother and my mom, when she was alive, and to me, when I often visited my mom. So it would be said that he was "estranged" from my other siblings, I guess, but there was more to it. He just could not communicate with people and only did so with the minimum #. Some of my siblings spouses have never even seen him, although he lives in the family home.

 

[Donjeta]

If she thought he was dangerous, why would she take him to shooting ranges and teach him to use weapons?

"CBS News' Pat Milton reports a source briefed on the investigation said that Nancy Lanza was demanding of her children. Even though Adam was highly intelligent, she pressed him to high standards and even pressed her sons to measure up at the shooting range where she taught them to shoot, the source said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559546/in-divorce-mom-had-authority-over-conn-shooter/

I don't know if the target shooting and the baby sitting happened at the same age...? There are some reports that NL frequented a bar and neighborhood events, dice games etc. and it doesn't seem like AL was part of these activities so I think she may have been more comfortable leaving him unwatched when he grew older.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...r-taught-him-to-be-responsible-with-guns.html

When asked about reports that she had taken Adam and her other son to shooting practice, one friend said: "She told me that she wanted to introduce them to the guns to teach them - especially Adam - a sense of responsibility."

The way "especially Adam" is inserted there might hint that there was some reason for concern that AL would have trouble with responsible gun handling if not drilled in it. JMO.