Conrad Murray Trial - Closing Arguments 11-3-11

[Credence]

Good afternoon all

Just wanted to post this case where a doctor was convicted of giving anesthesia improperly. Not much different than MJ except the victim was having surgery so I do believe that CM is not on trial just because it was MJ. The only thing different with MJ is he was a celebrity so just got more publicity. The victim in this case was an illegal immigrant. JMO

Dr. Roberto Bonilla of California Found Guilty in Patient Negligence Case Surrenders License

Roberto Bonilla, MD, a surgeon from Inglewood, Calif., has agreed to surrender his medical license after he was found guilty for his role in a patient's death, according to an LA Times report.

The Medical Board of California filed a complaint against Dr. Bonilla two year ago, accusing the physician of negligence and incompetence in performing gallbladder surgery on a patient. According to the complaint, in 2008 Dr. Bonilla performed the surgery in his office without an anesthesiologist or nurse anesthetist and delivered a fatal dose of lidocaine. Healthcare experts testified his choice of anesthetic lidocaine was an unusual one, as gallbladder surgery is traditionally performed with general anesthesia in a hospital, according to the report.

http://www.beckersasc.com/asc-accre...tient-negligence-case-surrenders-license.html

Doctor convicted in patient's death during surgery at home clinic

Nearly three years after a 30-year-old man died on the operating table at an Inglewood home turned into a neighborhood clinic, a Los Angeles County Superior Court jury Friday convicted the surgeon of involuntary manslaughter.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/26/local/la-me-0226-home-surgery-20110226

 

[Credence]

I know this is O/T but I think their opinion changed once the FBI report came out after investigating MJ for decades and the FBI found absolutely nothing criminal in his history of any kind.
<Respectfully snipped>
I admire people who can open up their minds and look at the facts when they are presented and form a different opinion based on them.
IMO

Aphrodite Jones part of the media frenzy during MJs trial and did a complete about face when she realized she had got caught up in it and after a thorough investigation; changed her mind and wrote a book based on the transcripts of the trial as well as her background investigation.

I also believe many journalists/news commentators realize, they too, got caught up in the frenzy. The media/public loves to build a celebrity up and enjoys more when they can bring them down. Not many people are aware of the fact that MJ brought a lawsuit against Diane Dimond but it was dismissed based on the 1st Amendment law and the shield laws. Media needs to be held accountable for their reporting practices. jmo

"As I made one of my last public comments on the case,&#8221; she remembers, &#8220;I realized that I had become one of the media bunch who had predetermined the outcome of the trial, wrongly. Many people around me were so sure of Jackson&#8217;s guilt. Many reporters had slanted TV and radio coverage to suit the prosecution, and I was one of those folks who had followed that dangerous trend.&#8221;

http://www.aphroditejones.com/books/Michael_Jackson.htm


I also believe Charles Thomson's article says it all:

One of the Most Shameful Episodes In Journalistic History

It was five years ago today that twelve jurors unanimously acquitted Michael Jackson on various charges of child molestation, conspiracy and providing alcohol to a minor. It is difficult to know how history will remember the Michael Jackson trial. Perhaps as the epitome of western celebrity obsession. Perhaps as a 21st century lynching. Personally, I think it will be remembered as one of the most shameful episodes in journalistic history.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-thomson/one-of-the-most-shameful_b_610258.html

 

[peace9274]

I know this is O/T but I think their opinion changed once the FBI report came out after investigating MJ for decades and the FBI found absolutely nothing criminal in his history of any kind.

I admire people who can open up their minds and look at the facts when they are presented and form a different opinion based on them.

I think a lot of them must feel terrible guilt about the media myths they spun for years. So many millions made by claiming he didn't have a serious skin disorder when he certainly did just like he told everyone way back in 1993. A lot blew up in the media's face when the MJ autopsy report came out.

Just like I saw JVM do an interview with Ed Smart the other day and she apologized to him because at the time when Elizabeth was missing Jane was sure her father had done something to her and was accusing him falsely. She was wrong and even though I cant tolerate Jane for more than 10 minutes I did admire her when she had enough guts to apologize to Ed Smart and of course he graciously accepted her apology.

IMO

Very well stated!!! As ususal!
I sooo agree with everything you said, oceanblueeyes...

Many years ago, I too believed most of what the media said about MJ.
I saw the photos of him being "unconventional" & behaving differently from "the norm".
I saw the results of his cosmetic surgeries. I watched the Oprah and Barbara Walters interviews.

And I too was one of the many who believed the molestation accusations.

And, for awhile, based solely on what I read, heard or saw, I thought MJ was just plain weird.
Whacko, as some of the press called him.

However, thanks to my young (at the time) son, I did begin opening my eyes & brain & forming
my own opinions of Michael Jackson... even before the trials and before the FBI investigation.

I began to see MJ in a totally different light. I read more extensively about him and ignored the tabloids.
I wanted to know the reasons he did some of the things he did in public, but I mainly wanted to see & learn
how this man/boy became such a brilliant and talented superstar.

I became aware of other parts of MJ's life, too. The part the general public didn't always see... or bother to take the time to know.

I began reading as much as I could about his dancing, his music, his writing (of music, poetry, books, films).
I observated his artwork. I focused on his talent as a director, a producer, a choreographer, an actor.

I watched his videos over and over and over (they were on TV constantly, thanks to my son).
I really formed an interest in how talented he actually was. How creative & brilliant he really really was.
I saw that he was more than a super-star, more than a huge celebrity. He was awesome! He was bigger than life.
He was one of a kind. He was a genius.

Odd at times, but totally & undeniably... a genius!
What well known genius hasn't been called weird, odd, strange or whacky?

Anyway... I also learned how wonderfully generous he was to all the charities in which he was involved.
How compassionate he was with the things he believed in. How he planned so many "fund raisers" and was
able to get so many of his peers involved... actors, directors, singers, dancers, entertainers.

I saw how unbiased he was, how he loved all people from all walks of life.... especially the poor & suffering.
And how kind he was to all his fans... including my son (I told that story several threads ago).

He wanted so much for the health & well being of the world... and for all the people in it.
He didn't build Neverland to be a fantasy playland just for himself and his family.
He invited thousands of other people to share it & enjoy it, also. He hosted hundreds of parties for children with cancer.

He gave so much of his money & time to Los Angeles Children's Hospital
(where my first job as a nurse was) and to the patients that were there.

Despite that Michael Jackson was so much more than a genius, a philanthropist, and a loving father...
those attributes did not sell like the "whacko" things he did.

I wanted to be, and did become, one of those people that oceanblueeyes wrote about above & bolded by me:

"I admire people who can open up their minds and look at the facts when they are presented and form a different opinion based on them."

I am ashamed, guilty, and extremely sorry that I once saw Michael Jackson through a closed mind & closed eyes.

I sincerely apologize to Michael, his mother, his siblings, his children, friends...
and to the other fans who really knew the true Michael from the very beginning... and throughout his lifetime.

Hopefully, Michael's death was not in vain. Hopefully, his death, the trial, and the media's coverage of it,
including the full coverage of Michael's life... have shown the millions of people, with their closed eyes & minds,
to see Michael as the truly remarkable person he was.

And one last comment... I am so happy that his beautiful children, and the videos of them since birth,
have since appeared... for the world to see that Michael Jackson was a wonderful, loving, caring father.

I tend to think that Michael considered his children - Prince, Paris and Blanket -
his greatest accomplishment, his most precious "possession", that which he was most proud....
and what made him the person he most wanted to be.


Rest in Peace, Michael Jackson.

You will live on forever in the hearts, eyes, ears and minds of millions!!!

 

[Thundar]

They said some really nasty things about MJ during the molestation trial but discussing it would be o/t so I'll stop. Yes I realize he's not on trial here. Just pointing out the hypocrisy but then again ratings is what matters to them anyway. I just find it repulsive. That's all.

You know JVM kind of apologized for the things she said during the molestation trial when this trial started and stated that this trial was about a Dr. not performing his duty not MJ and his bizarre lifestyle. She tried to explain that perhaps MJ got off a little on being described as "different" or "bazarre" and then the bizarreness (not a word I know) got carried away and out of hand.

Then the prosecutor described Murray's actions in that bedroom as bizarre during his closing rebuttal. Perhaps taking a little swipe at the media? A little ironic don't yah think?

 

[Thundar]

Very well stated!!! As ususal!
I sooo agree with everything you said, oceanblueeyes...

Many years ago, I too believed most of what the media said about MJ.
I saw the photos of him being "unconventional" & behaving differently from "the norm".
I saw the results of his cosmetic surgeries. I watched the Oprah and Barbara Walters interviews.

And I too was one of the many who believed the molestation accusations.

And, for awhile, based solely on what I read, heard or saw, I thought MJ was just plain weird.
Whacko, as some of the press called him.

However, thanks to my young (at the time) son, I did begin opening my eyes & brain & forming
my own opinions of Michael Jackson... even before the trials and before the FBI investigation.

I began to see MJ in a totally different light. I read more extensively about him and ignored the tabloids.
I wanted to know the reasons he did some of the things he did in public, but I mainly wanted to see & learn
how this man/boy became such a brilliant and talented superstar.

I became aware of other parts of MJ's life, too. The part the general public didn't always see... or bother to take the time to know.

I began reading as much as I could about his dancing, his music, his writing (of music, poetry, books, films).
I observated his artwork. I focused on his talent as a director, a producer, a choreographer, an actor.

I watched his videos over and over and over (they were on TV constantly, thanks to my son).
I really formed an interest in how talented he actually was. How creative & brilliant he really really was.
I saw that he was more than a super-star, more than a huge celebrity. He was awesome! He was bigger than life.
He was one of a kind. He was a genius.

Odd at times, but totally & undeniably... a genius!
What well known genius hasn't been called weird, odd, strange or whacky?

Anyway... I also learned how wonderfully generous he was to all the charities in which he was involved.
How compassionate he was with the things he believed in. How he planned so many "fund raisers" and was
able to get so many of his peers involved... actors, directors, singers, dancers, entertainers.

I saw how unbiased he was, how he loved all people from all walks of life.... especially the poor & suffering.
And how kind he was to all his fans... including my son (I told that story several threads ago).

He wanted so much for the health & well being of the world... and for all the people in it.
He didn't build Neverland to be a fantasy playland just for himself and his family.
He invited thousands of other people to share it & enjoy it, also. He hosted hundreds of parties for children with cancer.

He gave so much of his money & time to Los Angeles Children's Hospital
(where my first job as a nurse was) and to the patients that were there.

Despite that Michael Jackson was so much more than a genius, a philanthropist, and a loving father...
those attributes did not sell like the "whacko" things he did.

I wanted to be, and did become, one of those people that oceanblueeyes wrote about above & bolded by me:

"I admire people who can open up their minds and look at the facts when they are presented and form a different opinion based on them."

I am ashamed, guilty, and extremely sorry that I once saw Michael Jackson through a closed mind & closed eyes.

I sincerely apologize to Michael, his mother, his siblings, his children, friends...
and to the other fans who really knew the true Michael from the very beginning... and throughout his lifetime.

Hopefully, Michael's death was not in vain. Hopefully, his death, the trial, and the media's coverage of it,
including the full coverage of Michael's life... have shown the millions of people, with their closed eyes & minds,
to see Michael as the truly remarkable person he was.

And one last comment... I am so happy that his beautiful children, and the videos of them since birth,
have since appeared... for the world to see that Michael Jackson was a wonderful, loving, caring father.

I tend to think that Michael considered his children - Prince, Paris and Blanket -
his greatest accomplishment, his most precious "possession", that which he was most proud....
and what made him the person he most wanted to be.


Rest in Peace, Michael Jackson.

You will live on forever in the hearts, eyes, ears and minds of millions!!!

Geez Peace, that is so sweet. I don't have anything to add or take away from this.....thank you for being so kind.

 

[Credence]

Very well stated!!! As ususal!
I sooo agree with everything you said, oceanblueeyes...

<Respectfully snipped>


"I admire people who can open up their minds and look at the facts when they are presented and form a different opinion based on them."

I am ashamed, guilty, and extremely sorry that I once saw Michael Jackson through a closed mind & closed eyes.

I sincerely apologize to Michael, his mother, his siblings, his children, friends...
and to the other fans who really knew the true Michael from the very beginning... and throughout his lifetime.

Hopefully, Michael's death was not in vain. Hopefully, his death, the trial, and the media's coverage of it,
including the full coverage of Michael's life... have shown the millions of people, with their closed eyes & minds,
to see Michael as the truly remarkable person he was.

And one last comment... I am so happy that his beautiful children, and the videos of them since birth,
have since appeared... for the world to see that Michael Jackson was a wonderful, loving, caring father.

I tend to think that Michael considered his children - Prince, Paris and Blanket -
his greatest accomplishment, his most precious "possession", that which he was most proud....
and what made him the person he most wanted to be.


Rest in Peace, Michael Jackson.

You will live on forever in the hearts, eyes, ears and minds of millions!!!

Your post literally made me cry.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Very well stated!!! As ususal!
I sooo agree with everything you said, oceanblueeyes...

Many years ago, I too believed most of what the media said about MJ.
I saw the photos of him being "unconventional" & behaving differently from "the norm".
I saw the results of his cosmetic surgeries. I watched the Oprah and Barbara Walters interviews.

And I too was one of the many who believed the molestation accusations.

And, for awhile, based solely on what I read, heard or saw, I thought MJ was just plain weird.
Whacko, as some of the press called him.

However, thanks to my young (at the time) son, I did begin opening my eyes & brain & forming
my own opinions of Michael Jackson... even before the trials and before the FBI investigation.

I began to see MJ in a totally different light. I read more extensively about him and ignored the tabloids.
I wanted to know the reasons he did some of the things he did in public, but I mainly wanted to see & learn
how this man/boy became such a brilliant and talented superstar.

I became aware of other parts of MJ's life, too. The part the general public didn't always see... or bother to take the time to know.

I began reading as much as I could about his dancing, his music, his writing (of music, poetry, books, films).
I observated his artwork. I focused on his talent as a director, a producer, a choreographer, an actor.

I watched his videos over and over and over (they were on TV constantly, thanks to my son).
I really formed an interest in how talented he actually was. How creative & brilliant he really really was.
I saw that he was more than a super-star, more than a huge celebrity. He was awesome! He was bigger than life.
He was one of a kind. He was a genius.

Odd at times, but totally & undeniably... a genius!
What well known genius hasn't been called weird, odd, strange or whacky?

Anyway... I also learned how wonderfully generous he was to all the charities in which he was involved.
How compassionate he was with the things he believed in. How he planned so many "fund raisers" and was
able to get so many of his peers involved... actors, directors, singers, dancers, entertainers.

I saw how unbiased he was, how he loved all people from all walks of life.... especially the poor & suffering.
And how kind he was to all his fans... including my son (I told that story several threads ago).

He wanted so much for the health & well being of the world... and for all the people in it.
He didn't build Neverland to be a fantasy playland just for himself and his family.
He invited thousands of other people to share it & enjoy it, also. He hosted hundreds of parties for children with cancer.

He gave so much of his money & time to Los Angeles Children's Hospital
(where my first job as a nurse was) and to the patients that were there.

Despite that Michael Jackson was so much more than a genius, a philanthropist, and a loving father...
those attributes did not sell like the "whacko" things he did.

I wanted to be, and did become, one of those people that oceanblueeyes wrote about above & bolded by me:

"I admire people who can open up their minds and look at the facts when they are presented and form a different opinion based on them."

I am ashamed, guilty, and extremely sorry that I once saw Michael Jackson through a closed mind & closed eyes.

I sincerely apologize to Michael, his mother, his siblings, his children, friends...
and to the other fans who really knew the true Michael from the very beginning... and throughout his lifetime.

Hopefully, Michael's death was not in vain. Hopefully, his death, the trial, and the media's coverage of it,
including the full coverage of Michael's life... have shown the millions of people, with their closed eyes & minds,
to see Michael as the truly remarkable person he was.

And one last comment... I am so happy that his beautiful children, and the videos of them since birth,
have since appeared... for the world to see that Michael Jackson was a wonderful, loving, caring father.

I tend to think that Michael considered his children - Prince, Paris and Blanket -
his greatest accomplishment, his most precious "possession", that which he was most proud....
and what made him the person he most wanted to be.


Rest in Peace, Michael Jackson.

You will live on forever in the hearts, eyes, ears and minds of millions!!!

Just clicking the thanks button is not enough.

This is truly one of the best post I have ever read.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!

:yourock::loveyou::heartluv::heartbeat:

 

[tambo]

Very well stated!!! As ususal!
I sooo agree with everything you said, oceanblueeyes...

Many years ago, I too believed most of what the media said about MJ.
I saw the photos of him being "unconventional" & behaving differently from "the norm".
I saw the results of his cosmetic surgeries. I watched the Oprah and Barbara Walters interviews.

And I too was one of the many who believed the molestation accusations.

And, for awhile, based solely on what I read, heard or saw, I thought MJ was just plain weird.
Whacko, as some of the press called him.

However, thanks to my young (at the time) son, I did begin opening my eyes & brain & forming
my own opinions of Michael Jackson... even before the trials and before the FBI investigation.

I began to see MJ in a totally different light. I read more extensively about him and ignored the tabloids.
I wanted to know the reasons he did some of the things he did in public, but I mainly wanted to see & learn
how this man/boy became such a brilliant and talented superstar.

I became aware of other parts of MJ's life, too. The part the general public didn't always see... or bother to take the time to know.

I began reading as much as I could about his dancing, his music, his writing (of music, poetry, books, films).
I observated his artwork. I focused on his talent as a director, a producer, a choreographer, an actor.

I watched his videos over and over and over (they were on TV constantly, thanks to my son).
I really formed an interest in how talented he actually was. How creative & brilliant he really really was.
I saw that he was more than a super-star, more than a huge celebrity. He was awesome! He was bigger than life.
He was one of a kind. He was a genius.

Odd at times, but totally & undeniably... a genius!
What well known genius hasn't been called weird, odd, strange or whacky?

Anyway... I also learned how wonderfully generous he was to all the charities in which he was involved.
How compassionate he was with the things he believed in. How he planned so many "fund raisers" and was
able to get so many of his peers involved... actors, directors, singers, dancers, entertainers.

I saw how unbiased he was, how he loved all people from all walks of life.... especially the poor & suffering.
And how kind he was to all his fans... including my son (I told that story several threads ago).

He wanted so much for the health & well being of the world... and for all the people in it.
He didn't build Neverland to be a fantasy playland just for himself and his family.
He invited thousands of other people to share it & enjoy it, also. He hosted hundreds of parties for children with cancer.

He gave so much of his money & time to Los Angeles Children's Hospital
(where my first job as a nurse was) and to the patients that were there.

Despite that Michael Jackson was so much more than a genius, a philanthropist, and a loving father...
those attributes did not sell like the "whacko" things he did.

I wanted to be, and did become, one of those people that oceanblueeyes wrote about above & bolded by me:

"I admire people who can open up their minds and look at the facts when they are presented and form a different opinion based on them."

I am ashamed, guilty, and extremely sorry that I once saw Michael Jackson through a closed mind & closed eyes.

I sincerely apologize to Michael, his mother, his siblings, his children, friends...
and to the other fans who really knew the true Michael from the very beginning... and throughout his lifetime.

Hopefully, Michael's death was not in vain. Hopefully, his death, the trial, and the media's coverage of it,
including the full coverage of Michael's life... have shown the millions of people, with their closed eyes & minds,
to see Michael as the truly remarkable person he was.

And one last comment... I am so happy that his beautiful children, and the videos of them since birth,
have since appeared... for the world to see that Michael Jackson was a wonderful, loving, caring father.

I tend to think that Michael considered his children - Prince, Paris and Blanket -
his greatest accomplishment, his most precious "possession", that which he was most proud....
and what made him the person he most wanted to be.


Rest in Peace, Michael Jackson.

You will live on forever in the hearts, eyes, ears and minds of millions!!!

beautiful,


Rest in peace Michael Jackson

 

[peace9274]

Just clicking the thanks button is not enough.

This is truly one of the best post I have ever read.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!

:yourock::loveyou::heartluv::heartbeat:

LOL... ahhh gee thanks, oceanbluebeyes! :blushing:

I wrote it and posted it here, then saw that no one was here.
I deleted it and took it over to the "Verdict Today" thread, started
this morning, where I then saw most of you were.

Then everyone wasn't there, just 1 or 2, so I came back here and reposted it. LOL
I was going to go delete it over there at the Verdict Today thread.
But now I guess there's more posters over there. HUH?

I also noted that I wrote "observated", instead of "observed"... :waitasec:

Thank you to all who read my "tribute"...
(I wasn't expecting my post to be a tribute or to be so long & really didn't realize it till I saw it posted)
... and commented on it.

 

[borndem]

I was on a jury once, over 20 years ago. I don't think we took a preliminary vote until we had talked about it a bit, but I do remember we did take votes two or three times. It was a minor case, indecency with a child, and we deliberated about 5 1/2 hours total. It was interesting and I enjoyed the experience. We found him guilty.

Thanks for sharing your jury story. It is a fascination with me; full of mystery, so I enjoyed your sharing! And, yes, Walgren put the sexy in the courtroom!!!! <pant, pant>

And he put the reality in the courtroom, too, TxLady -- if the jurors can see the forest instead of the individual triees (blaming MJ, or Alvarez, or "addiction," or the forensic investigator, etc., etc.), we should have a verdict today or Monday morning.

 

[2goaliemom]

Aphrodite Jones part of the media frenzy during MJs trial and did a complete about face when she realized she had got caught up in it and after a thorough investigation; changed her mind and wrote a book based on the transcripts of the trial as well as her background investigation.

I also believe many journalists/news commentators realize, they too, got caught up in the frenzy. The media/public loves to build a celebrity up and enjoys more when they can bring them down. Not many people are aware of the fact that MJ brought a lawsuit against Diane Dimond but it was dismissed based on the 1st Amendment law and the shield laws. Media needs to be held accountable for their reporting practices. jmo

"As I made one of my last public comments on the case,” she remembers, “I realized that I had become one of the media bunch who had predetermined the outcome of the trial, wrongly. Many people around me were so sure of Jackson’s guilt. Many reporters had slanted TV and radio coverage to suit the prosecution, and I was one of those folks who had followed that dangerous trend.”

http://www.aphroditejones.com/books/Michael_Jackson.htm


I also believe Charles Thomson's article says it all:

One of the Most Shameful Episodes In Journalistic History

It was five years ago today that twelve jurors unanimously acquitted Michael Jackson on various charges of child molestation, conspiracy and providing alcohol to a minor. It is difficult to know how history will remember the Michael Jackson trial. Perhaps as the epitome of western celebrity obsession. Perhaps as a 21st century lynching. Personally, I think it will be remembered as one of the most shameful episodes in journalistic history.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-thomson/one-of-the-most-shameful_b_610258.html

Thank you Credence. Your links, together with Ocean's link to the FBI files tell a far different story than the one that came out of that courtroom back in 2005. Here is another article from Joe Vogel on HuffPost that is worth the read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/michael-jackson-trial-_b_1068750.html

 

[borndem]

Good afternoon all

Just wanted to post this case where a doctor was convicted of giving anesthesia improperly. Not much different than MJ except the victim was having surgery so I do believe that CM is not on trial just because it was MJ. The only thing different with MJ is he was a celebrity so just got more publicity. The victim in this case was an illegal immigrant. JMO

Dr. Roberto Bonilla of California Found Guilty in Patient Negligence Case Surrenders License

Roberto Bonilla, MD, a surgeon from Inglewood, Calif., has agreed to surrender his medical license after he was found guilty for his role in a patient's death, according to an LA Times report.





The Medical Board of California filed a complaint against Dr. Bonilla two year ago, accusing the physician of negligence and incompetence in performing gallbladder surgery on a patient. According to the complaint, in 2008 Dr. Bonilla performed the surgery in his office without an anesthesiologist or nurse anesthetist and delivered a fatal dose of lidocaine. Healthcare experts testified his choice of anesthetic lidocaine was an unusual one, as gallbladder surgery is traditionally performed with general anesthesia in a hospital, according to the report.

http://www.beckersasc.com/asc-accre...tient-negligence-case-surrenders-license.html

Doctor convicted in patient's death during surgery at home clinic

Nearly three years after a 30-year-old man died on the operating table at an Inglewood home turned into a neighborhood clinic, a Los Angeles County Superior Court jury Friday convicted the surgeon of involuntary manslaughter.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/26/local/la-me-0226-home-surgery-20110226

Apparently, the poor patient -- gall bladder operation which should not be that big a deal in an OR with all the usual people and equipment within an arm's length or a "Code Blue" announcement. Allergic to lidocaine -- a LOCAL anesthetic !!!! -- the anesthesiologist gives a big fat shot of some type of anaphylaxis, bags the guy, has the incompetent doctor arrested & taken away, and the poor patient gets the right doc & knockout, and lives to sue and tell about it.

What a sad story. The doc could honestly have been trying to help the guy who probably no money or insurance, but, like CM, decided that he could do it all by himself. Ummm.

Thanks for bringing it to us -- an unknown victim, and his careless and probably arrogant MD was put on trial -- imagine that!!!

 

[borndem]

Very well stated!!! As ususal!
I sooo agree with everything you said, oceanblueeyes...

Many years ago, I too believed most of what the media said about MJ.
I saw the photos of him being "unconventional" & behaving differently from "the norm".
I saw the results of his cosmetic surgeries. I watched the Oprah and Barbara Walters interviews.

And I too was one of the many who believed the molestation accusations.

And, for awhile, based solely on what I read, heard or saw, I thought MJ was just plain weird.
Whacko, as some of the press called him.

However, thanks to my young (at the time) son, I did begin opening my eyes & brain & forming
my own opinions of Michael Jackson... even before the trials and before the FBI investigation.

I began to see MJ in a totally different light. I read more extensively about him and ignored the tabloids.
I wanted to know the reasons he did some of the things he did in public, but I mainly wanted to see & learn
how this man/boy became such a brilliant and talented superstar.

I became aware of other parts of MJ's life, too. The part the general public didn't always see... or bother to take the time to know.

I began reading as much as I could about his dancing, his music, his writing (of music, poetry, books, films).
I observated his artwork. I focused on his talent as a director, a producer, a choreographer, an actor.

I watched his videos over and over and over (they were on TV constantly, thanks to my son).
I really formed an interest in how talented he actually was. How creative & brilliant he really really was.
I saw that he was more than a super-star, more than a huge celebrity. He was awesome! He was bigger than life.
He was one of a kind. He was a genius.

Odd at times, but totally & undeniably... a genius!
What well known genius hasn't been called weird, odd, strange or whacky?

Anyway... I also learned how wonderfully generous he was to all the charities in which he was involved.
How compassionate he was with the things he believed in. How he planned so many "fund raisers" and was
able to get so many of his peers involved... actors, directors, singers, dancers, entertainers.

I saw how unbiased he was, how he loved all people from all walks of life.... especially the poor & suffering.
And how kind he was to all his fans... including my son (I told that story several threads ago).

He wanted so much for the health & well being of the world... and for all the people in it.
He didn't build Neverland to be a fantasy playland just for himself and his family.
He invited thousands of other people to share it & enjoy it, also. He hosted hundreds of parties for children with cancer.

He gave so much of his money & time to Los Angeles Children's Hospital
(where my first job as a nurse was) and to the patients that were there.

Despite that Michael Jackson was so much more than a genius, a philanthropist, and a loving father...
those attributes did not sell like the "whacko" things he did.

I wanted to be, and did become, one of those people that oceanblueeyes wrote about above & bolded by me:

"I admire people who can open up their minds and look at the facts when they are presented and form a different opinion based on them."

I am ashamed, guilty, and extremely sorry that I once saw Michael Jackson through a closed mind & closed eyes.

I sincerely apologize to Michael, his mother, his siblings, his children, friends...
and to the other fans who really knew the true Michael from the very beginning... and throughout his lifetime.

Hopefully, Michael's death was not in vain. Hopefully, his death, the trial, and the media's coverage of it,
including the full coverage of Michael's life... have shown the millions of people, with their closed eyes & minds,
to see Michael as the truly remarkable person he was.

And one last comment... I am so happy that his beautiful children, and the videos of them since birth,
have since appeared... for the world to see that Michael Jackson was a wonderful, loving, caring father.

I tend to think that Michael considered his children - Prince, Paris and Blanket -
his greatest accomplishment, his most precious "possession", that which he was most proud....
and what made him the person he most wanted to be.


Rest in Peace, Michael Jackson.

You will live on forever in the hearts, eyes, ears and minds of millions!!!

Oh, peace -- no wonder your WS name is "peace," because that is what you are and what you make me think.

I was going to snip some of your post to save space here , but I just couldn't....

And of all the things I have read and linked-to and read, your post made me cry and smile more than the rest.

Although I have the original "Thriller" on LP -- bought, as I had said earlier, when I saw his "Billie Jean" for the 1st time and went out & bought it the next day, now I have just bought the "deluxe" edition with a CD and a DVD of the originals of "B.J" and some of his best & brightest. And I have watched my copy of "This is It" many times. And my jaw drops every time I see him. Yes, a genius whom his father woke up at midnight, or whenever, when MJ was 8 or 9, and Daddy made them practice more. And go on the road to radio stations & whatever he could push them into.

No sleepovers for the man-child MJ at 9 or 10 years old. No cook-outs with the across-the-street neighbors. No County or State Fair trips to ride a Ferris Wheel or Carousel or to try to throw a basketball in a hoop to win a teddy bear.... Trick or Treating? Sitting on Santa's Lap? Easter egg hunts? Hide & Seek with those neighbors? Playing Old Maid or Battleship or Monopoly or Super Mario Brothers on rainy days? No dress-up with his sibs? No home-made ice cream?

I have just ordered a bio of MJ and I'm waiting for it eagerly.

That's why he built his Neverland -- to give and to have that Ferris Wheel and cotton candy and those sleep-overs. For kids who might not ever have them, either, and for himself -- to have those things that he could only have heard & read about. He didn't want to touch any of those 8 -- 10 year-olds -- he wanted to BE one, since those times were yanked out of his life. And HIS children were going to have those days. His children were going to have them. No stages -- just playhouses and forts and snow-ball drinks and a carousel in their front yard.

And certainly he did okay in the absence of those things in his life -- a multi-millionaire with the best of the best. With anywhere he wanted to go. The world was his. He had to work, yes, but that was what he did. Oh, and on and on.

So now, you've got me crying in my cheerios, but that's okay, my friend peace.

Thanks for your tribute.

 

[Isabelle]

Just got home. WHAT IS HAPPENING??? Why are family members and attorneys arriving at courthouse? Is judge about to release jury for weekend??? Would they do that?

 

[peace9274]

Go to the CM Trial - Verdict Watch Thread...

But we are still on the verdict watch as of 3:57 pm pst

Up until 4:00 pm

 

[legalmania]

Oh, peace -- no wonder your WS name is "peace," because that is what you are and what you make me think.

Respectfully snipped -

MJ got to go to state fairs, baseball games and all the other things kids do only his brothers and him were the opening act. I don't think his father even thought about it. He would let his 6 yr old work in a bar until 2 or 3 am. He credits himself for the Jackson's success. IMO they were successful because they are very talented kids. Joe worked them way to hard for minors, imo. I think his father can thank himself for MJ's drug abuse. I'll never forget seeing MJ do the moonwalk for the very first time, can't remember the show but seeing him slide across the stage backwards so gracefully will stay in my mind forever.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

Kind of O/T, but next week I'm undergoing surgery to remove at least six kidney stones, and now I'm nervous about being put under after following this trial. I forgot to ask my doctor yesterday if they would be using propofol to put me under. I will make sure I ask when I go to check in for surgery next week though! This will be my fifth stone removal surgery, but I've never been this nervous about it! LOL

Unless you've invited him over to do the surgery in your bedroom, I'm pretty sure you'll be safe and MONITORED. They've probably been using propofol all along, and it seems like a very good anesthetic to use for that purpose, especially since it's metabolized so quickly. If you tell him you can't sleep at night, he's probably more likely to prescribe some Ambien.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

Good Morning all Looking so forward o hearing what the defense has to say, well really what do they have to say DrM is guilty of neg. in his treatment of MJ and thus causeing his death uhmmm yea pretty much sums it up for me :crazy:.

Funny and O/T story of Bash's all hallow's eve for you.

First of all I had no idea that if you get bit by a cat bad enough what happens :furious:.

My HRH kittah Lord Hayden a drama quenn to begin with gets his hind feet caught in a 4 foot fence trying to get his fat arse over it (he is a house kitty of about 15 lbs that gets to go out in the backyard when mommy watch's him cause lot of wild animal around) screams like Cujo of the feline worls Bash goes to save him and he shreads Bash's hand. Mind you he screamed for a couple of hours I thought he had brake or dislocated something so Mom is freakin out hand spewing blood get him calm and he is walking ok in the mean time Bash's hand is looking like a freakin softball. I thought I broke it in the ensuing farcis that broke out. Get to the emergency room oh yea a cat bite get infected in a matter if hours...uhmm really. So 6 stiches later the little drama queen bit my hand all the way to the bone 5 stiches inside and one out. 5 shots in my *advertiser censored* over 2 day's and 1200 mg of antibiotics for 12 day's. Oh and the shots hurt like hell and smell like cat pee. The irony is not lost here. My hand hurts like it is giving birth to a llama. Oh and Hayden is just fine playing and sprinting through the house like an olympic runner. Meanwhile Bash's hand is swollen 4 times its normal size is on fire and hurts like freakin HELL. Happy Halloween to Bash oh and who knew that one cat bite could do that I sure as hell didnt :floorlaugh:

Wow I did NOT know they would be that bad! We have 4 cats in the house, one of whom is an inveterate biter. I'll be petting him and he'll be reveling it in and suddenly he'll snap around and CHOMP! He's like a scorpion; he can't help it because it's just his nature. Most of the time I can evade it, but I don't dare take my eyes off of him if he's on my lap.

In the most recent Clan Of The Cave Bear books (which I finally stopped reading out of sheer boredom) Ayla tells some people that the Clan women always boiled lion claws before doing anything with them because they would often lead to serious and life-threatening infections otherwise. Our kitties may not be lions, but apparently their bites can lead to nasty consequences, not unlike the big boys (one notable difference being that your kitty probably can't eat most of you in one sitting).

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

I've been meaning to say this for some time: MJ's kids don't have a mother, because of Michael Jackson. (Reminded by Walgren saying they don't have a father). I think that was really reprehensible. Of course, this has nothing to do with Murray's culpability, I just have always thought this was incredibly selfish of MJ, especially given what happened.

I was thinking that, too.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

Chernoff is criticizing the "baby on a countertop" analogy that Dr. Steinberg made. The problem is the analogy was in reference to a sedated patient, not MJ as a person.

I think Chernoff is the ONLY person who took that the wrong way (not that he didn't know EXACTLY what the doctor meant). I was OUTRAGED when he made a big deal of the PT calling MJ a baby, as if he weren't a grown man who could make decisions. Uh, under sedation, NO ONE can make decisions. At least the baby on the countertop can WAKE UP and make a decision to cry for attention.

If I were on the jury, I would be highly insulted that Chernoff was acting like I was too stupid to see what a blatant misrepresentation that was. Not only should he not have tried to spin it, but he should never have mentioned it in the FIRST place. Now the jurors are going to remember, oh yeah, he WAS like a baby left on a countertop; defenseless and alone while in a condition that could easily result in grave harm. Nice going, Chernoff, put THAT picture back in their minds and insult their intelligence in the process.