Conrad Murray trial -Day fourteen.

[CarolinaMoon]

Dr. Shafer continued the demonstration of the set-up and showed how difficult it would be to allow for the correct dosage of propofol. As he explained that he had done calculations and figured out that the propofol had to have 15 seconds between the drips.

At that point, the defense objected to the demonstration and the attorneys went to a sidebar.

One thing is sure. CM probably didn't know how to do the calculations IMHO.

White is definately not sitting at the defense table.

The objection was apparently overruled and the demonstration continued. Flannagan did point out that the saline line was different from the evidence. It serves the same function. The propofol line was the same as the one CM ordered (but not found at the scene). Shafer then demonstrated how he attempted to set up the slit bag with the propofol bottle attached.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

This set up wouldn't make a difference, according to Shafer.

When finished with the demonstration, Whalgren (sp?) asked Shafer to state his opinion. Defense objected and was overruled. We heard it before, with the addition of the fact that CM was responsible for every drop of propofol in the room.

Judge Pastor called it a day at 6:55 pm. Long day tomorrow, I assume.

Forgot to add that it was brought up that there was no propofol in the saline tube. Whalgren asked Shafer if the tubing with the propofol could be rolled up and held in one's hand. It could... indicating that PERHAPS CM took it from the scene without any problems in concealing it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So which is it? Did he get his liscense suspended or not. And is it just in California or all over? What you posted is really confusing.

One of the earlier witnesses had worked for Murray in his Las Vegas clinic and stated she did not work for him anymore because he had to close his clinic.

I put up information the other day about Murray letting his license expire in LV in June, 2011.

Thats ok because I dont think he is going to be needing them anyway. Imo, he will lose his license in all three states once this trial is over with. The MB is just waiting to swoop in.

IM

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OMG. Attys are at sidebar, conferring with Judge.
CM's expression! Like he is seeing a ghost!

And I have to leave! Just when it looks like something big's gonna happen.

Oh darn. Now a little break time so the Jurors can use the bathroom.

Please... someone keep transcribing so I can come right back after the dentist and see what happened.

Thanx in advance.

P.S. I understand the IV set up and what Dr Shafer thinks CM did. I don't need that explained, but anything else worth reporting.... TIA

To me he had that 'deer in the headlights' look. He really thought no one would be able to figure out what he did.

Whatta closing for the state!:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

 

[peace9274]

At a hearing on June 14 2010, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor refused to suspend Murray's California medical license despite a request by state authorities to bar him from praticing, saying he did not have the authority to revoke it.

The cardiologist has continued to work in Houston and Las Vegas, where he maintains practices. His attorney, Ed Chernoff, has argued that the loss of Murray's California medical license will negatively affect his Texas and Nevada operations, and filed court papers Friday revealing that those states have allowed Murray to practice provided he doesn't administer sedatives like Propofol.

Murray gained a much-needed dose of good press last month when helped revive a woman who became unconscious on a US Airways flight from Houston to Phoenix.

At a hearing on Tuesday, January 11, 2011, Conrad Murray was ordered to stand trial on a count of involuntary manslaughter and Judge Michael Pastor then ordered the suspension of Murray's license as a condition to the doctor's bail.

The ruling was issued by Los Angeles Superior Judge Michael Pastor after a six-day preliminary hearing that included Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor said testimony presented during a six-day hearing into Murray's treatment of the pop icon had convinced him that allowing the cardiologist to keep his license "would constitute an imminent danger to public safety."

More than 20 witnesses who mostly detailed Murray's actions during Jackson's final hours testified at the preliminary hearing.

The California Medical Board has already tried several times to have Dr. Conrad Murray's license suspended.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment...katherine-joe-jackson-fight/story?id=10910329

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jackson-doctor-in-court-wednesday,0,3544076.story

BBM

Thanks for all your info, Bluesky. Your last sentence that I bolded... that is so weird.
I thought the Licensing Boards for Doctors and Nurses, PAs, Pharmacists, et al had the
final say in determining whether a license will be suspended. Guess not.

 

[peace9274]

So which is it? Did he get his liscense suspended or not. And is it just in California or all over? What you posted is really confusing.

One of the earlier witnesses had worked for Murray in his Las Vegas clinic and stated she did not work for him anymore because he had to close his clinic.

Even if he were allowed to keep his license, his clinic and be allowed to continue practicing as before...
I'd place bets that he lost a lot of patients..... and business ain't doing so well.

 

[peace9274]

Thanx for transcribing, everyone, while I was gone!

I guess there wasn't as much of a "big deal" about to happen as I thought there'd be... just as I left for my dental appt.

But CM, while his attys were at sidebar, and after they returned, looked sooo frightened and
as though he were about to lose any composure he had left. Like he wanted some answers
immediately or wanted to know what was discussed up there.

It's weird because the call to approach the bench (not sure who called it, I think one of the defense guys did),
happened immediately after CM wrote something on his pad and then shoved it over to his white haired atty to his left.

Can't even remember his name! My brain is one big fuzz ball!
Caused by my dentist, who was taking too long and talking too much.

Oh... and I forgot to ask her if she ever uses propofol. Darn it.

 

[borndem]

Fat content higher on a woman?
Just guessing, though.... without hurting my brain,
trying to remember the real reason.

Can hormones affect metabolism? Organ size? Different reproductive systems? Post-menopausal? Muscle mass? XX vs XY chromosome?

No idea.

 

[borndem]

Was the ox. tank full? anyone know?

IIRC, it was empty.

 

[SATA]

I wasn't looking at my screen, but I heard the loud laughter after Dr Shafer made a joke.

Anyone see if the DT and Conrad laughed, too??

They didn´t. They looked stone faced.

But I did catch a glimpse of Murray smiling briefly today - as if he has anything to smile about!

 

[outofstatelawyer]

On HLN during the lunch break, one of the male TH's who was in the courtroom reported that there was a loud conversation between Flannagan and White. All he reported was that he heard the phrase, "don't take it personally" by Flannagan. Oh, to know everything the reporter heard! Seems Dr. White is none too happy about what his old friend is saying about him.

I have a feeling that the defense will wrap up later today and Flannagan will be crossing well into tomorrow, if not all day. IMHO only.

Peace, I have just finished all the appointments I cancelled during the CA trial this summer!

Actually, I think the reporter said it was Chernoff, not Flanagan. Chernoff has been doing the objections, so he will likely be the one cross examining Dr. Shaffer.

But yeah, seems like Dr. White was rattled by Shaffer's testimony. This should be interesting.

 

[Crosby87]

BBM

Thanks for all your info, Bluesky. Your last sentence that I bolded... that is so weird.
I thought the Licensing Boards for Doctors and Nurses, PAs, Pharmacists, et al had the
final say in determining whether a license will be suspended. Guess not.

I thought Dr. Murray had been allowed to treat patients until his trial began so I'm glad I'm up to speed and know this isn't true.

I saw a transcript online of the discussions that took place between the Licensing Boards and Judge Pastor over Dr. Murray's medical license but my computer crashed before I saved it. I'm going to go search for it because I found it interesting.

The Medical Board of California has asked the court twice before to yank Murray's license, to no avail. But minutes after ordering Murray to stand trial, Judge Pastor granted the request.

Dr. Murray has 24 hours to notify the medical boards in Texas and Nevada of Judge Pastor's decision.

It's a devastating blow to Murray, because he needs to practice to make enough money to pay his legal team. Murray's team believes the move is designed to take away his right to defend himself in the manslaughter trial.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/dr-co...ael-jackson-manslaughter-trial-medical-board/

Another article states,

Judge Pastor granted a request by the California Medical Board to suspend Dr.Conrad Murray’s license to practice medicine in the state. Pastor said he made the decision in the interest of public safety and ordered Murray to notify every district in which he practices of the decision within 24 hours. Murray has clinics in Houston and Las Vegas.

http://mjstar.co.uk/index.php/2011/01/12/dr-conrad-murrays-medical-license-suspended/

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IIRC, it was empty.

Do you think when he walked back in and found him not breathing he used all of the oxygen in the tank trying to revive him?

It never made any sense why it was empty. On these smaller tanks there is a gage right on the tanks that shows how much is in there.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I thought Dr. Murray had been allowed to treat patients until his trial began so I'm glad I'm up to speed and know this isn't true.

I saw a transcript online of the discussions that took place between the Licensing Boards and Judge Pastor over Dr. Murray's medical license but my computer crashed before I saved it. I'm going to go search for it because I found it interesting.

The Medical Board of California has asked the court twice before to yank Murray's license, to no avail. But minutes after ordering Murray to stand trial, Judge Pastor granted the request.

Dr. Murray has 24 hours to notify the medical boards in Texas and Nevada of Judge Pastor's decision.

It's a devastating blow to Murray, because he needs to practice to make enough money to pay his legal team. Murray's team believes the move is designed to take away his right to defend himself in the manslaughter trial.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/dr-co...ael-jackson-manslaughter-trial-medical-board/

Another article states,

Judge Pastor granted a request by the California Medical Board to suspend Dr.Conrad Murray’s license to practice medicine in the state. Pastor said he made the decision in the interest of public safety and ordered Murray to notify every district in which he practices of the decision within 24 hours. Murray has clinics in Houston and Las Vegas.

http://mjstar.co.uk/index.php/2011/01/12/dr-conrad-murrays-medical-license-suspended/

He really didn't actively practice in California anymore anyway. I believe the last time he used his license was when he lived in San Diego. He and his wife moved away from there when he got involved with another woman and fathered another child. That is when they moved to Las Vegas and both opened a practice there.

The medical board will revoke his license. IMO, he will lose them in all three states. No one can find out any information about Hawaii even though he says he is licensed there too. Beth Karas said she has checked with the HMB and his name is not listed.

When the MB comes to court wanting a doctor's license revoked is because they think the public at large is not safe with this doctor left out there to practice medicine.

When a license is being considered for revocation by the MB it is like a mini-trial.It can take quite a long time to complete. They do not meet everyday. Someone presides over the hearings and evidence will be entered and they will have witnesses from both sides who testifies. This will be done after the resolution of the criminal trial. Imo it will go forward whether there is a conviction or not. CM has highly offended the medical community and they are going to come down hard on him.

His license in LV is expired as of June 30, 2011. He did not renew them imo because he knows it is futile and a waste of time and money.

 

[Crosby87]

After Michael Jackson's death, petitions went to the Medical Board of CA demanding the suspension of Conrad Murray’s medical license.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18z_iN8vNx4"]PETITION FOR THE SUSPENSION OF THE MEDICAL LICENSE OF CONRAD MURRAY - YouTube[/ame]

The Attorney General of California Jerry Brown and the Medical Board of California on April 5 filed a request with the Superior Court of California to have Conrad Murray’s license suspended.

Deputy Attorney General Trina L Saunders under the authority of Penal Code Section 23, recommended that the court issue an order requiring that as a bail condition, Conrad Murray, cease and desist from practicing medicine in the State of California.

http://www.justice4mj.com/blog/2010...se-suspension-medical-board-of-californi.html

 

[oceanblueeyes]

They didn´t. They looked stone faced.

But I did catch a glimpse of Murray smiling briefly today - as if he has anything to smile about!

The last hour and a half Murray showed more emotion than he ever has. He looked scared to death.

But it seems like the whining has begun.:floorlaugh:

UPDATE 3:05 p.m. Pastor immediately called for a break after Murray lost his cool in response to Shafer using an actual infusion stand to demonstrate how Murray could have dosed Michael Jackson with propofol. "Can you believe that?" Murray whispered to Dr. Paul White, an expected defense witness. "What a ," White told the media seated near him.


Read more: http://www.eonline.com/news/michael_jackson_manslaughter_trial/270524#ixzz1bNX9lEPI

 

[borndem]

FYI, Dr. Conrad Murray arrived holding hands with his mother on the opening day of his trial.

Maybe his mother is staying with him during the trial?

Does anyone know whether Dr. Murray's mother or Nicole Alvarez have been in Court everyday? Is there anyone there to support him other than his lawyers?

The camera focused on Dr. Murray alot this morning while Dr. Shafer was testifying.

My video connection quit on me so I missed parts of Dr. Shafer's testimony.

BBM -Yes, you're right, Bluesky, about the cameras, they have been focusing on CM quite a bit, and he hasn't been lookin' too good. Honestly.

He has had a pen in his hand, on a pad of paper, but I haven't seen him write one thing. The pen is stuck on one place. He has really been listening, seems to me. I think he is learning something from the witness, IMO. And, really, he just looks crestfallen and worried. I think finally he has realized what a sticky wicket he created for himself when he talked with the LEO's. He has been stuck in that corner into which he painted himself ever since this thing began, as so many of us have discussed.

And I, too, wonder if he has been in any previous jam-ups in a hospital or in his practices. I'm betting yes. He's either lazy or not very competent or both.

And I have no pity for him. Not one speck.

 

[borndem]

Dr. Murray's bail terms allowed him to continue practicing medicine after Michael died and imo his medical license should have been suspended either by the Court or through the governing body that oversees the conduct of local physicians and surgeons.

Does anyone know whether Dr. Murray actually did return to work after he was officially charged with MJ's death?

In a recent case here in NC, a doctor was driving drunk (BAC 0.16) IIRC, traveling 80--85 mph, and he rear-ended a car driven by a young ballerina. She was instantly killed and he was uninjured. He was eventually charged with 2nd degree murder, but the jury also could render a verdict on a lesser charge of "death by vehicle." The doctor had a very good attorney, and was out on bail immediately. The doctor's lawyer told him to immediately surrender his medical license and to get into rehab for alcoholism asap. He was convicted of d.b.vehicle and is actively serving a 3yr to 4yr/5mo sentence. (!)

My point is the bolded sentence above. Smart lawyer, IMO. The doc will have to ask for his license to be returned to him, etc., etc.

 

[shgrbkr]

HHMMM, witness just showed how there is a part of the label on the propofol bottle that is used as a hanger, who knew? So then why was the saline bag split open. Didn't Murray realize the propofol bottle had a hanger on it?

I have given propofol many times, and when I saw that the saline bag was cut open with the bottle inside, I was puzzled. Still am. Generally, you have an IV line with saline and the propofol is hung via it's own tubing, sometimes to a dedicated IV site, and sometimes the propofol tubing is plugged into the saline tubing at the closest port to the patient. The IV bag is NEVER opened in any situation during an infusion. That would contaminate the line and possibly introduce bacteria into the line. IMO, the bag may have been cut and the propofol bottle thrown in just as you are getting rid of it to be thrown away. In this, or any case, though, that would be a pointless, time consuming step. I still don't understand what that's about. At any rate, the propofol I used for infusions were sent up from the pharmacy with a little bag that would hold the bottle and be used for a hanger. Looks like they make them with a plastic hanger on the bottle nowadays.

Drugs are metabolized by the liver and kidneys in both men and women. Diprivan, however, is a lipid based drug, which may make it metabolize differently depending upon the amount of fat on a person. In MJ's case, he was so thin, I can't imagine how this would have behaved in his body. Seems to me the health of the liver would be more important. Also, if he was accustomed to getting Lorazepam, he would have some tolerance, but the only time I've heard of a patient getting that much of it is when I took care of burn patients in an ICU setting and the real bad ones would be on a drip. Of course, THEY WERE MONITORED, unlike MJ.

 

[cece5300]

I hope this is ok to ask this here; I apologize as I haven't been closely following this trial (after this past summer's disastrous CA trial outcome I was trial'd out. But I'm ready to jump back into following this trial now) : How much jail time could Dr Murray face if convicted? I tried to find out online but one answer I found said "none". I thought I'd come here and ask.