Conrad Murray trial -Day nineteen.

Discussion in 'Conrad Murray' started by Soulmagent, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    I am so naive. Nothing is sacred, nothing....[​IMG]
     


  2. peace9274

    peace9274 Well-Known Member

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    Yep... I saw that, too. I would've never thought the Cards could've pulled that
    & tied the game at the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs even!!!

    Now Rangers are ahead 2 again!!!
    Cards up again now.

    But I'm 3 hours earlier than you are, so I'll definitely be up in time for the start of court tomorrow. :)
     
  3. peace9274

    peace9274 Well-Known Member

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    I meant to add that that's cool about your son playing with Josh Hamilton. Does your son still play ball?

    Reminds me of my son going all through school with John Meyer (the singer).
    They were in plays together since the time they were 12 yrs old and in "My Fair Lady"
    at community theater... and all the other plays thru HS. They played in local bands together, also.

    John Meyer went on to be a famous grammy winner.
    My son will be getting his masters in film studies from NYU in January &
    writes the Documentary Channel Blog (and film reviews & articles for others).
     
  4. Talina

    Talina New Member

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    :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
     
  5. TxLady2

    TxLady2 Active Member

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    Demerol is pretty powerful, there are other pain meds that are not as strong. However, MJ may have needed something that strong because he obviously had such a high tolerance of drugs.
    JVM screams about everything, what else is new? I get the heebie-jeebies when I have to listen to her.
     
  6. Talina

    Talina New Member

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    I don't understand how this new program's results can be admitted this late in the trial. I could see if the reason for it was due to some discovery violation on the other side but that doesn't appear to me to be what has happened. Sounds to me like it is something Dr. White just finished doing night before last and now defense wants to use it in the trial.

    I'm not aware of anything that happened mid trial (new prosecution theory or new evidence just then introduced beyond discovery deadline) that would have just then made a light bulb click on so Dr. White started writing this new modeling program. For that matter, how did Dr. White all of the sudden become proficient at writing these programs when he has in the past relied on and engaged Dr. Shafer to do the modeling? Something sounds very hinky to me about all of this. :maddening::banghead:
     
  7. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    Good Morning Everyone!:seeya:

    The entire latest quick dump on the state seems very suspicious to me. FGS! Dr. Shafer turned his reports over months ago so whats the problem?

    I am having a distinct problem in believing the DT is ethical and trustworthy.

    Of course Judge Pastor is caught in the middle and doesn't want this to come up on appeal in case there is a conviction so he is letting the DT get it in.

    It just seems very strange to me. First the incident about the defense being given one form and it was different than the one given to the state and then, secondly, we have the misleading incorrect graph by Waldman yesterday and then before the night ends we learn they have sprung a new software program on the State.:banghead: The state has to be sick of all the shenanigans going on.

    IMO
     
  8. CarolinaMoon

    CarolinaMoon Well-Known Member

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    Just reading up here this AM what I missed. Dr. Shafer, a program, a weekend and he will check it out thoroughly. He'll prep Walgren with the right questions to ask. If that doesn't totally do the trick, count on the prosecution to put him up on rebuttal. He's the one who did the programming for White way back when.

    So far, their major disagreement is about the drip. It will be interesting to hear.

    Ahem, about the colonoscopy, had one, no problema. Off to sleep and it was over. I had what I'd call a "partial" colonoscopy which didn't go around the first tricky turn with my internist years ago. No sedation, nada. She quit when I got very uncomfortable, but there was no pain, just discomfort towards the end. DH once had a combo: colonoscopy followed by a minor bit of surgery. They "woke him up" after the first procedure so he could move to another table, position. Didn't remember any of it!
     
  9. Talina

    Talina New Member

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    I'm thinking that it could be what you say but I think it is very likely that he has areas on his face that are overly sensitive to pain due to all the plastic surgeries has had in the past. IMO Lots of potential there for damaged nerve endings and scar tissue. At least my personal experience with damaged nerve endings and scar tissue being painful on my knee tell me that could be the case for him, particularly on the face which is by nature typically more sensitive to pain.

    Then, to add to that, all of the injections for Botox and that other filler (forgot the name of it) were in areas of the body that are typically just a tad more sensitive (face, arm pits and groin areas sweat glands being injected - that just sounds painful to me).

    As far as other dermatologists and addiction specialists weighing in on this issue...I say pfft to their face time. (I'm looking at you two clowns that were on JVM last night)

    For one thing, they have no idea the details to the types of procedures Dr. Klein was doing on MJ, MJ's pain tolerance or lack thereof for whatever reason. Now, if Dr. Klein were to give a detailed interview about the procedures, his opinion on why this amount of demerol were called for, etc. and the other doctors then wanted to give their opinion, that would be a different matter altogether. Until then, they have no idea what they are talking about or even giving an opinion about. :banghead:

    So now, I will end with the words of wisdom from the learned Mr. Mesereau as he so eloquently asked JVM while she obviously had her fingers in her ears since he had to repeat it a few times:

    What does any of this have to do with what happened on June 25, 2009?


    IMO
     
  10. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Great early-morning thoughts, Talina!!!

    A good way to get us in the right frame of mind -- some kind of variation of, "Keep your eyes on the prize, Jury."

    Walgren will somehow get that across to the jury whenever it will be that he gets the chance.... and do it more than once, methinks. We'll have to WAIT till Monday for that, dimmit.

    I'm about to dash out the door to a study class -- I should be back around 1:00 -- 1:30, EST - so take notes if enny one is still awake after the DT direct gets going, and I'll see you Sleuthers later today. [​IMG]

    And Good Morning, Gang!.....:seeya:......[​IMG]....[​IMG]
     
  11. TxLady2

    TxLady2 Active Member

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    Oh, he is a cutie, isn't he!!! I'm old enough to be his mother, but if I was younger... :woohoo:

    I was getting pretty angry with the 'expert' today, and his attitude. Combativeness does not come across too well with a jury!

    Just wanted to thank everyone for the great posts, I can't be on the computer and watch the trial at the same time, so just get to drop in here every morning to zip through the threads. You're all doing a great job!
     
  12. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Dr. Waldman say when he is looking to see what a person is on he also does a physical and has tests run on the liver to see if it shows any damage?

    If MJ was really a full blown active addict for years and years then how could his liver be so totally healthy when he died?:waitasec:

    IMO
     
  13. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    I imagine MJ had some serious nerve sensitivity or damage where needles to the face would be extremely painful.

    I agree with you. Dr. Klein KNEW MJ and had known him for 25 years or more.

    The bottom line for me is Klein was throughly investigated by the DEA and they found no wrongdoing. So that tells me he was within the FDA guidelines when he did these procedures.

    I don't pay attention to talking heads who are just out for their 15 minutes of fame and I have tried to zone out for years when it comes to screaming JVM. If not, I would be as big a loon as she is.:floorlaugh:

    IMO
     
  14. Talina

    Talina New Member

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    :floorlaugh: Everytime she is on the tv, hubby says to me "why do you have that channel on? she turns you into someone I don't recognize" :floorlaugh:
     
  15. Isabelle

    Isabelle Verified registered nurse

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    Most likely yes. And MJ would not be able to receive the Demerol intermittently as he did, since the half-life is 2.5 - 4 hours. I honestly believe that it is possible that Dr. Klein was giving him increasing amounts of Demerol without Michael's knowledge. I also noted that the amount of Demerol was reduced in the last visits (at least that is what it looked like on the graph and on the chart Dr. Waldman made. A Demerol addiction does not add up here for me.
     
  16. CarolinaMoon

    CarolinaMoon Well-Known Member

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    Just listening to a few snips of Dr. White's testimony from yesterday on IS. It's amazing that one of the defense theories at the opening of the trial, that MJ drank the propofol which killed him has been reduced to a bunch of piffle. Now, re-listening, I'm stunned to hear Dr. White attempt to say that it was a fleeting idea based on the propofol in the stomach and that it wasn't based much on his own opinion, but the opinions of others. He dismisses it figuratively with a wave of the hand. He was busy with other things, hadn't really given it much thought and ONLY filed a 3-page report. He called it "speculation" at that point.

    I'm not buying that. Since when would THE WORLD'S most highly reknowned expert just dash off a few quick thoughts while he was busy with other things? Oh, and then have them screamed out loud in headlines and by the defense team????? :waitasec:
     
  17. Talina

    Talina New Member

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    Exactly. Speculation should be communicated verbally and not reduced to writing unless it is abundantly clear in his writing that he is purely speculating. But then again, why would someone of his caliber issue a 3 page opinion and include speculations? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. This even more so underlines probably why Dr. Shafer was disappointed that he'd even go there with that idea of oral ingestion.

    IMO
     
  18. CarolinaMoon

    CarolinaMoon Well-Known Member

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    I also noted how well prepped Dr. White was. He was sure making nicey-nicey about Dr. Shafer while dismissing his testing. That academic rivalry is totally at a major simmer right now.

    I do hope Dr. Shafer makes a reappearance on rebuttal if Walgren need to go one step further. On the other hand, I hope he doesn't reappear as Walgren demolished White on the stand Monday.
     
  19. Talina

    Talina New Member

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    I'm probably too suspicious by nature but I see that as a hidden agenda there. Remember he has that contempt hearing looming over his head for his media comments and the "*******" nonsense. I think he is trying to gain favor with Judge Pastor to perhaps soften hearing outcome. I could be wrong but it just stinks to high heaven to me.
     
  20. peace9274

    peace9274 Well-Known Member

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    GOOD MORNING EVERYONE! :seeya:

    WOW... a lot of very interesting thoughts & opinions this morning!
    If I thought this thread was going to continue this morning, I wouldn't have posted the TMI about my son,
    my cosmetic procedures & my up-coming colonoscopy, last night... LOL ... altho I do appreciate any & all info on how
    yours went. And since I feel I know some of you so well, I like hearing about your RL, DHs & DC!

    I hate that court may end early today! I've become so engrossed in this trial, that it's become the major part
    of my daily routine. Everything else has been put on the back-burner! I'm still not prepared for doing the much
    needed house cleaning & much needed physical exercise!

    And so... let the show begin!
     

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