Construction Worker Theory

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by shiloh, Jul 22, 2006.

  1. shiloh

    shiloh New Member

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    The Ramseys bought the house in Boulder in 1991 for $500,000, and then spent another $700,000 in renovating it. I haven't been able to find information on when the construction work began or how long it lasted, but my assumption is that it must have lasted a couple of years. Anyone working on the renovation of the home would already know their way around it since they helped to build it. In addition to the construction workers, there would be various contractors to install plumbing and electrical wiring, along with painters and carpet layers. That would be a lot of people. I read somewhere recently that three or four of the people who worked on the home had criminal records, but I haven't been able to relocate that information.

    It isn't hard to imagine a minimum wage manual laborer building up a great deal of resentment and loathing against the Ramseys, being envious of their wealth and despising them for it. If the renovation lasted a couple of years, that would give anyone plenty of time to get to know various facts about the family, like the fact that Burke liked to whittle, and hear them use unusual words like "hence," and uncommon ones like "victory."

    This article http://www.wowessays.com/dbase/ad2/arn278.shtml says that "Police acknowledged that at least 15 people (caterers, housekeepers, and contractors) had keys to the house."

    Does anyone know when the renovation started and how long it lasted? Or have any information on some of them having criminal records?

     
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  3. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    I believe JTColfax documents a few of them in his diaries. JT, in Canada at the time of the murder, still haunts me with his "TC" (temporarily Cobain).
    Part of his diary is here, you can click around I'm guessing to find his Boulder jail comments.
    http://ode2colfax.tripod.com/vancouver2.htm
     
  4. shiloh

    shiloh New Member

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    This has probably been discussed somewhere in my years of absence, but I find it interesting that the handwriting sample of JR's at Fausto Brugnatelli's site http://www.brugnatelli.net/fausto/ramsey.htm is taken directly from an answer to a complaint for nonpayment against JR when he was unsatisfied about the work done on one of the construction projects. I have no idea if this pertains to the house in Boulder or Charlevoix.

    The handwriting in the note has always looked more like JR's to me, and I never understood how anyone could come to the conclusion that the handwriting in the note looks at all like Patsy's. There are important differences, however, between JR's handwriting and the handwriting in the note, especially the fact that the handwriting in the note is filled with tics, and there are no tics at all in JR's handwriting.

    It is not inconceivable that the contractor involved could have obtained a copy of this handwritten response to the complaint and had practiced imitating JRs writing. I wonder if that person has been checked out. Undoubtedly not by the police.

    And I wonder if JR ever left handwritten instructions or comments about some of the jobs or revisions he wanted done to any of the contractors.

    But of course, if someone had been in their home during the summer months of 1996 while they were away in Charlevoix, there would have been plenty of handwriting samples in the house, and probably financial information including the amount of the bonus as well.
     
  5. shiloh

    shiloh New Member

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    I'm also wondering if there were other contractors who were not paid because JR was dissatisfied with the work, who did not bother to file a complaint. This one did. That would sure make me angry. Not angry enough to kill someone's child, but it could have affected someone else like that.

    And having your home renovated is extremely stressful, as well. I wonder how many of the workers had been on the receiving end of JR's temper and sought to avenge themselves, especially if they weren't being paid for hard work.
     
  6. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    It is not inconceivable, but not very likely.
    Out of 97 people PR's handwriting was most the same with the RN.
    It is most likely PR wrote that note.

    I really doubt this had anything to do with a disgruntled employee, why would the Ram's risk everything for a disgruntled employee>?
    Why would they lie and hinder an investigation for someone they didn't know?
     
  7. shiloh

    shiloh New Member

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    I suppose I'm a rare breed in that I have always trusted my own observation and experience rather than that of any so-called "expert," especially when it contradicts my actual experience and observation. No cognitive dissonance here. This is a sample of Patsy's handwriting. It is obvious that, unlike JR's handwriting, PR's handwriting looks nothing at all like the handwriting in the note.

    http://www.writeanalysis.com/images/patsy.gif

    In regards to hindering an investigation, I certainly would not have been eager to speak to an extremely unethical policeman who was leaking false and misleading information to the tabloids which was designed to make me look guilty. Instead, I would hire a professional, experienced homicide detective like McCrary or Douglas, which is certainly something I would not consider doing if I were guilty.

    About the Ramseys lying or covering up for someone, I answered that in another thread. I'll repost it here:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by narlacat
    Thanks Shiloh.

    Why would the R's cover up the death of their daughter for these people you mention, disgruntled employees etc?


    I don't believe they have been covering up for anyone.

    In trying to recall what I did today, I can tell you what I have done, but I certainly wouldn't be able to recall accurately the order in which I had done many things. I honestly don't know whether I came into this room first, or fed the cat, or went out and got the paper, or whether I had opened this drawer or turned on that light or whether that light was already on. And then if I were to give a statement, and then remember more later about it, or if it had been understood incorrectly by the person taking the statement, it could be construed that I had been lying or am involved in a coverup.
     
  8. dingo

    dingo Former Member

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    Shiloh..regarding your post in the theory thread.

    You mention a baseball bat with a blond hair attached....was this hair ever tested to reveal its owner..TIA.
     
  9. shiloh

    shiloh New Member

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    That's apparently my mistake, since I'm unable to source that right now, but I thought I read that somewhere. I'll amend the post on the theory thread. What I'm finding right now is that it had fibers on it which match the carpet in the basement near the storage room.
     
  10. dingo

    dingo Former Member

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    OK.......
     
  11. shiloh

    shiloh New Member

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    It's interesting that on this page http://ode2colfax.tripod.com/10171998colfax-deancole.htm, Colfax says that the man who installed the marble countertops in the kitchen (Dean Cole) was never contacted by the police, and to DC's knowledge, none of the other workers had been contacted either, and then at the bottom of the page, Colfax said that none of them had been contacted by Lou Smit, either. That was in October 1998.
     
  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    "I never understood how anyone could come to the conclusion that the handwriting in the note looks at all like Patsy's."

    We're even, then. I can't understand how anyone could say they DIDN'T.

    Incidentally, have you ever seen this:

    http://www.acandyrose.com/w1.gif

    or maybe this:

    http://www.acandyrose.com/w3.gif

    "In regards to hindering an investigation, I certainly would not have been eager to speak to an extremely unethical policeman who was leaking false and misleading information to the tabloids which was designed to make me look guilty."

    Especially when you've got an extremely unethical policeman willing to go to bat for you based on a prayer session!
     
  13. shiloh

    shiloh New Member

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    Yes, I have seen those, and the individual letters on the first page look similar. When I was much younger, I used to write my "t's" like that as well, like the script here, along with millions of other people. The "b" at the bottom of the second page looks very different, and I don't know why it was included as a similarity. When I write the letters "ro" in a word, it runs together as well, and I didn't write the note. And there aren't very many ways to write an exclamation point, and the way you write it probably looks very similar as well. But the overall appearance of Patsy's handwriting sample is very different from that of the note, whereas John's is quite similar.

    I don't bow down to the feet of Lou Smit any more than I do to Steve Thomas. Both LS and Douglas came to overly hasty conclusions about their innocence, and a lot of the "evidence" for an intruder which LS points out is hardly credible. But we don't have all of the evidence (10 percent, according to Schiller), and much of what we think we "know" is incorrect. LS states that there is "real and credible evidence" for an intruder, but if what has not been made public is on the same scale of credibility as what has been made public, it wouldn't be very convincing to any of us. But combined LS and Douglas had over a half a century of experience solving homicide cases, compared to ST's zero.

    And ST came to his own hasty conclusions the day Patsy said she did not kill her baby. He "swung his head around" and took that as a confession, since nobody suggested that she had. But for some reason, he did not have the same reaction to the naked photographer running through the town making the same proclamation. Nobody suggested he killed her, either.
     
  14. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    "Both LS and Douglas came to overly hasty conclusions about their innocence, and a lot of the "evidence" for an intruder which LS points out is hardly credible."

    Good to know.

    "But combined LS and Douglas had over a half a century of experience solving homicide cases, compared to ST's zero."

    True, but he took advice from some pretty experienced people.

    What would you say if I told you that Smit has repeatedly dismissed offers to talk about his evidence?

    "And ST came to his own hasty conclusions the day Patsy said she did not kill her baby. He "swung his head around" and took that as a confession, since nobody suggested that she had."

    It might not be all that simple. After all, we weren't there.

    But I get where you're coming from.
     
  15. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Yes, and none of these people were asked any questions either.

    http://ode2colfax.tripod.com/04231999colfax-partyunderbus.htm
     
  16. Peter Hamilton

    Peter Hamilton New Member

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    Well,there have been many cases where workers on a house have been linked to crimes committed in that house at a later date--The most famous is based on the 1960's show"The Fugitive",the 1954 Cleveland Murder,the doctor accused and (wrongly)convicted of killing his wife--Dr Sam Shepard-was later acquitted in 1966 with F. Lee Bailey's help--The real killer was later proven to be a worker(motivation? rape? robbery?),who later committed many more crimes--he recently died in prisonBut of course,this has nothing to do with JBR's murder--Patsy was the killer and not an intruder--prettyt ough to replace a spider web that fast lol
     
  17. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    No one knows, with the number of keys out, that that window was used. No spider web, no snow, etc. were propaganda designed to make Patsy look guilty.

    Yes, it happens often..Elizabeth Smart..

    About seven months before Elizabeth, now 15, vanished, her mother ran into Mitchell panhandling in downtown Salt Lake City. She hired him to work on the roof of the family's house, a stint that lasted five hours.
     
  18. shiloh

    shiloh New Member

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    I honestly don't know what to make of the man. Or Douglas. One possibility is that they both quickly came to the conclusion that it was a coverup for juveniles, and they're covering up for juveniles themselves.

    Neither of them have been looking for an intruder any more than the Ramseys have been. Ditto for the Grand Jury. I was RST then, knowing little about the case, and it was frustrating that they weren't even meeting let alone calling witnesses or going over evidence. They met in May 1999 for the last time, after a 5- or 6-hr interview with Burke. Then they stopped meeting altogether until October, and reconvened briefly only to say that there would not be an indictment.

    Edit: Of course, another possibility is that LS is hoping that this case will be solved one day and will go to trial. I hope that's the case. Contrary to popular opinion, this case is still being investigated, by the new DA, and there's a strict policy about not speaking to the press.
     
  19. Rupert

    Rupert Former Member

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    Thread was about the workers.

    What about the flooding of the house? was this just an accident?

    I recall that person knows how to tie knots.
     
  20. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    "prettyt ough to replace a spider web that fast lol"

    Peter, according to Dr. Opell, it was about impossible.

    "No one knows, with the number of keys out, that that window was used."

    Tell that to Smit, sissi. The idea that it was someone with a key is much more believable to me. I can work with that.

    "No spider web, no snow, etc. were propaganda designed to make Patsy look guilty."

    Well, I don't know if she needed them to do that! Ellis Armistead seemed to think she was doing fine on her own!

    But let's get this stuff straight:

    Snow? That's tough. Some posters say they can prove that there was snow before the sun melted it in the morning and afternoon, but I don't know.

    The spider? Well, Dr. Opell was able to say what kind of spider it was, so I'll stick with it for now.

    shiloh, I was in the same place myself!
     
  21. shiloh

    shiloh New Member

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    Sorry Rupert, just answering SD's question and then ruminating a bit.

    You're being a bit too obscure there for me, and I'm not sure who you mean by "that person" knowing how to tie knots. Was this someone who had helped repair the flood damage? I believe the flood was in the 3rd floor bathroom, and it was right before the Christmas Home Tour in 1994. Since the home tour was in 1994, that means that the bulk of renovation must have been complete by that time, at least as far as building the new back section of the house is concerned.
     

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