Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #105

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Satchie

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Moo...the "shunning", ridicule is being delivered by our highest authority. Vaccine is the focus of every WH PC, most days the morning shows/evening news have leaders messaging vaccine, media articles...so in so died unvaccinated. Some of this IMOO, is driven by the lack of test kits, and vaccinations is the usual response when our leaders are ask about the lack of testing question. This divides and angers individuals vaccines and unvaccinated.

Its time to change the message and focus on treatment and less on the unvaccinated. Time to face the facts, some are not going to be vaccinated and that's that. Move on, I say.

All my opinion ...
In my view, until this pandemic is over, life and the world economy can't return to anything resembling normal. Should leaders of countries just shrug and say, 'oh well 50 million current cases, another 7,000 dead today, not my problem, people should just sort it out themselves. Lets talk about more important stuff, like trade'?

This is the biggest crisis the world has faced since WWII. Vaccination is the only pro-active solution we have. Perhaps people can't see it in their personal bubble, but the world can't function while these waves keep passing through.

Coronavirus: How the pandemic has changed the world economy

JMO
 

mickey2942

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I'm confused. Why would she be publicly shunned? How would anyone in the general public know her vaccination status? I pass by people when I'm out. I have no idea if they are vaccinated or not.

She has had a lot of issues at work. Vaccine status is supposed to be "secret", but everyone "knows". I believe HR was going to put her in an isolated office, and there was some crazy Hysteria from others, that she should use a separate restroom. Hello, ADA? EEOC? They backed down.

She was told she couldn't go to a concert without her Vaccine card, hassles with travel. On and on...
 

nhmemorymaker

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I hear ya.

Everyone in my immediate family is triple vaxxed. But we have a very close family friend that is adamantly rejecting getting his shots.

He is an enigma to me because he is NOT a selfish young man and he is every bit a true humanitarian. He has built about a dozen Habitat for Humanity homes over the years. He volunteers for several non-profit charities.

So WHY does he refuse the vacs?
Several reasons and we have had this intense conversation a dozen times. And at the end, he is very convincing.

In reality, he is the healthiest, most athletic person I know. He does marathons and mountain climbing and expert rock climbing. He is a VERY strict VEGAN. He eats NO processed food of any kind, no meat, no dairy, no eggs, and everything is raw and fresh. He occasionally drinks beer or wine but only on special occasions.

I have never seen him get sick with the flu or a cold or anything. He is in his late 20's. He insists that his immune system is working at a peak level and he does not think that he will have a severe case of covid if he catches it.

Meanwhile, he is tested 2x a week for his job. And he ALWAYS wears masks and socially distanced and pretty much quarantines the rest of the time with his girlfriend and their 2 dogs. She works from home.

His body is very sensitive and reactive to any type of medicines and always has been. His father and uncles had heart problems and he does not feel safe taking the shots because he feels vulnerable to heart issues down the road.

He feels that he would rather take his chances with the virus using his own immune system which appears to be working well.

OH, AND BOTH HIS PARENTS AND HIS BROTHER AND COUSIN HAVE ALL HAD COVID ALREADY, AS BREAKTHROUGH CASES, AS THEY ARE AL TRIPLE VAXXED.

So he has very good arguments that seem logical and well thought out. His vaccinated family members have had the virus while he has not. None of them had severe cases and I have told him many times that he might not be so lucky.

But I cannot say that he is stupid or selfish or reckless. He is none of those things. He is far more health conscious and responsible with his food and lifestyle and exercise routines than anyone I know.

So it does bother me when I hear some of the vitriol against 'the unvaxxed' ----speaking about them all as if they were an inferior race that deserved to die. I think there are conscientious, logical people who have come to their own conclusions and if they have GOOD REASONS, I support their decisions.

If someone is being lazy or reckless or political----and they are not young and extremely healthy, then I think it is a very poor decision. But if someone is doing everything possible to avoid the virus, by taking precautions, and are being tested routinely for work, and have very healthy immune systems, then I don't think they have a negative affect upon the rest of us. JMO

I respect him as well. I don't think anyone would believe that all unvacced are the same. One of my dearest dearest friends for decades is also unvacced, as is her highly autistic son. She is adamant about that her son's autism is a direct result of vaccines. Conscientiousness in your friend and mine are the same, whether I agree or not.

""I will remember that I REMAIN A MEMBER OF SOCIETY, WITH SPECIAL OBLIGATIONS TO ALL MY FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.""

When I stated this statement paraphrasing the Hippocratic oath... it was more in relation to a view for how we think about and treat society. Is it right for society to hurt our health care workers so much? When they are trying to help so much?

I dunno... just does not seem like a great picture of humanity to me.
 

CSIDreamer

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Interesting you brought this up because I have an anti-vaxxer often telling me this is happening:

"The fact that any negative information about the potential risks and side effects of the Covid vaccine are dismissed and negated should be concerning."

Has anyone read through the VAERS site? I did generated a report on the Pfizer vaccine out of curiosity. There is a lot of info there.

So much so I almost nodded off and had to back out of it.

I was looking at "cardiac" related events/reactions. I had a few unpleasant months after Pfizer.

Awhile back I was part of a FB group that was anti-vaccination that was encouraging members to report fake vaccine side effects. I do not believe there is a way to know if there are false reports on there

There we go.
 

Cool Cats

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I could quote a whole lot of name calling bullying behavior just on this site in reference to the unvaccinated. It's quite the acceptable thing. Along with minimizing comments one does not agree with. :) jmo

Not acceptable on here, in fact, the Mods delete those posts so fast I don't remember seeing them. I'm sure there have been a few here or there but not the norm.

I was anxious about getting the vaccine and still not 100% sure about the booster but no one bullied or minimize me when I've mentioned it.
 
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Satchie

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She has had a lot of issues at work. Vaccine status is supposed to be "secret", but everyone "knows". I believe HR was going to put her in an isolated office, and there was some crazy Hysteria from others, that she should use a separate restroom. Hello, ADA? EEOC? They backed down.

She was told she couldn't go to a concert without her Vaccine card, hassles with travel. On and on...
So, this means the worldwide effort to defeat Covid should be abandoned, because this person perceives it as unfair to her and her personal choice? Really, I am mystified.
 

indicolite22

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Its time to change the message and focus on treatment and less on the unvaccinated. Time to face the facts, some are not going to be vaccinated and that's that. Move on, I say.

All my opinion ...
SBM. IMO there are still too many people in the high risk groups (at least here) who are listening to the antivaxx propaganda. When they end up in a hospital, most regret not getting vaccinated, but it might be too late. Those that have been hesitant and misled are worth addressing. Treatment is infinitely more costly and painful (both for an individual and the society) than prevention.
 

Cool Cats

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There we go.

You were only looking at one post and not the context:

"The fact that any negative information about the potential risks and side effects of the Covid vaccine are dismissed and negated should be concerning."

Concerning because it is important to know vaccine side effects but at the same time not to scare people as I said in my follow up post:

Yes, knowing the side effects - without trying to scare people away from vaccines - can help people make informed decisions about which vaccine they may want to get.

For example:

Due to heart issues some men under age 30 may choose a vaccine that is not an mRNA vaccine such as AstraZeneca.


More young adults than expected have reported heart inflammation following Covid-19 vaccination

A higher-than-usual number of cases of a type of heart inflammation has been reported following Covid-19 vaccination, especially among young men following their second dose of an mRNA vaccine, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Thursday.

Overall, 226 cases of myocarditis or pericarditis after vaccination in people younger than age 30 have been confirmed. Normally, fewer than 100 cases would be expected for this age group.

The CDC will hold a meeting of its Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices on June 18 to further look at the evidence and assess the risk of myocarditis following vaccination.
 

SouthAussie

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I'm glad. But it does seem odd now that he's been out on the practice courts, unmasked practicing. I'm sure these facilities have employees that aren't happy about that.

From what we have heard, he has been out on the courts only at night. To keep him separated from the other players and trainers.

They did this kind of thing for the last Australian Open. Put all of the players in pods (2 players & 2 trainers), so they were only exposed to the same people over and over, while training.
Sounds like Djokovic has been in a pod of his own.

The matter goes to court this morning (Saturday) to lay the groundwork. His lawyers have found a judge that will hear the case remotely on Sunday. (If that is not preferrential treatment, I don't know what is).

imo


ETA:
Talking Heads are saying his lawyers are being very wily. (They are quite high flying, expensive lawyers.)
Djokovic's family are going public to create 'emotional support'.
Djokovic himself is staying quiet, because he has lied and he holds anti-vaxxer opinions.

Source: Ch7 TV news this morning (Saturday)
 
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Simply Southern

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In my view, until this pandemic is over, life and the world economy can't return to anything resembling normal. Should leaders of countries just shrug and say, 'oh well 50 million current cases, another 7,000 dead today, not my problem, people should just sort it out themselves. Lets talk about more important stuff, like trade'?

This is the biggest crisis the world has faced since WWII. Vaccination is the only pro-active solution we have. Perhaps people can't see it in their personal bubble, but the world can't function while these waves keep passing through.

Coronavirus: How the pandemic has changed the world economy

JMO

Yes, trade, manufacturing, transportation, education, health care workers are all suffering the consequences of infections related to unvaccinated.

My point, we can't change them, at least not in the US.

Would it not be more effective to encourage unvaccinated to test, to seek treatment early? We now have oral medications that can be given in days, especially to our younger population without underlying medical conditions. Could we reduce
hospitalizations, death, get people back to work quicker, kids and teachers back in school? Its easier to hand out pills than tie up the ICU.

Promote early treatment and testing, out patient easy assess pop up clinics for prescriptions, injections, or IVs of monoclonal antibodies. Each state received billions of federal funds, some states were proactive with treatment and had high infection rates but low death.

My state, you need an ID to get a vaccine or a test, that's tuff for the undocumented and those with our ID. Many have no insurance, in poor rural counties, the ER is their source of medical care and most wait till they are really sick.

We can't make individuals take the vaccine, but we can encourage, educate, and make the unvaccinated population comfortable and easy to receive treatment. They are jamming up our hospitals and our healthcare workers are worn out.

It's a work around, its an alternative that could improve our country.

All my opinion.....
 

Teche

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I'm getting this feeling as well, which is what worries me.

Those who are not getting the vaccines (JMOO) are not coming from a place of wanting to harm anyone--they actually are either frightened of the shot or they think they don't need it. I haven't spoken to even one of them who refused to be vaccinated for selfish purposes. They think they're doing the right thing. That's all any of us can do--what we believe to be right. I may disagree with their conclusion but I don't wish them ill.

I'm glad we have the vaccine, and I tell others so, but some have different thoughts and ideas. If they become ill, they need to be treated as anyone else would be treated. That's only humane.

To my way of thinking--it's the messaging around the vaccine that's scared people. We've never had good messaging. We still don't.
I live in the Deep South and things are horrid here due to the infection rates and high positivity rates. When we had a mask mandate, many of the vaccinated wore masks. I’ve been insulted and called a MF when I asked others to please step back from me when in a check out line. The only time they’ve moved back was when I explained that my sil is an ER nurse and my daughter NP in NICU and cares for infected moms and babies everyday do they keep 6 ft away. I belong to a local and a state Covid Fb group, the anti-vaxxers are vicious (imo).
 

Arkay

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https://miro.medium.com/max/865/0*IYWzJGuhl3zaWQBM

So, this is a picture of smallpox. Which has been recorded centuries before Christ and has killed hundreds of millions since it first swept the world through merchants trading by sea and over the Silk Road. Which killed 3 out of 10 people and caused untold suffering to those who survived.

Which was eradicated by a vaccine after Edward Jenner discovered that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox did not develop smallpox. Which led him to a process called "variolation" in which he injected some of the cowpox from the milkmaids' pustules into the gardener's son. Which led to the discovery of a true vaccine, which comes from the word for cow, since the milkmaids were the "Eureka" moment for Jenner.

Which led to a worldwide eradication campaign through vaccination. Which led to the last naturally acquired case in a 3-year old girl in Bangladesh in 1975, and the last case ever in 1978, and was declared permanently eradicated in 1980.

Which my parents made sure I received as an infant or child, before my memory.

And polio, which when I was a toddler was mainly affecting children, some of whom spent their childhoods in an iron lung, and for which I vaguely remember drinking some sugary pink drink, which was the polio vaccine, and which spared me.

I know there are people out there who do not trust vaccines. But a lot of trial and error went into creating a process by which our bodies could recognize and fight off a deadly disease. I'm quite sure we had some very nervous ancestors who weren't too sure this was a good idea. But the evidence speaks for itself.

Maybe people were also afraid to take antibiotics after Alexander Fleming's fortuitous accidental discovery, but it's why we will not die from the Black Plague.

IMO the vaccines are a miracle from God.
 

Teche

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I want to state that I don't view people who are unvaccinated as one homologous group.

I have friends who are unvaccinated, some who have previously had Covid, and aren't sure that they need to be vaccinated, others who have been advised not to get vaccinated, and some who are afraid of potential vaccine side effects. I have shared my belief in vaccination, and my experiences, but I don't look down on my friends, or think that I am superior to them.

My concern with the allocation of monoclonals is that vaccinated individuals who may have not mounted an adequate immune response, have undiagnosed immune dysfunction, or other co-morbidities may be overlooked for treatment due to their vaccination status, in favor of those who are vaccinated.

It's a difficult issue, IMO., but ultimately I think that clinical need should be the main factor, but what should hospitals do when there are too many patients, and not enough treatments?

I really hate that this virus has been used by the media and politicians to fuel their own agendas, and divide people.
I'm not a part of that. I don't watch much MSM, and try to share unbiased, scientific sources here, and with my friends and family.

This pandemic has been awful, and I view every death as a tragic loss (whatever the vaccine status). I cannot wait until we can put this behind us, and I never thought it would go on for this long. :( All JMO.
I agree. There are some individuals that are not vaxxed for medical reasons and others who believe it’s a government conspiracy, etc.
 

Satchie

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You were only looking at one post and not the context:

"The fact that any negative information about the potential risks and side effects of the Covid vaccine are dismissed and negated should be concerning."

Concerning because it is important to know vaccine side effects but at the same time not to scare people as I said in my follow up post:

Yes, knowing the side effects - without trying to scare people away from vaccines - can help people make informed decisions about which vaccine they may want to get.

For example:

Due to heart issues some men under age 30 may choose a vaccine that is not an mRNA vaccine such as AstraZeneca.


More young adults than expected have reported heart inflammation following Covid-19 vaccination

A higher-than-usual number of cases of a type of heart inflammation has been reported following Covid-19 vaccination, especially among young men following their second dose of an mRNA vaccine, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Thursday.

Overall, 226 cases of myocarditis or pericarditis after vaccination in people younger than age 30 have been confirmed. Normally, fewer than 100 cases would be expected for this age group.

The CDC will hold a meeting of its Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices on June 18 to further look at the evidence and assess the risk of myocarditis following vaccination.
I just don't see why people believe they are more expert on analysing and approving vaccines (whatever branch of science that is).

I mean, hundreds of teams of highly educated people, with collectively decades of experience, their lifetimes devoted to the pursuit of science at the highest level of excellence, all independently analyse the data, publish it, other teams test the results, together they reach the best consensus they can, taking into account hundreds of different factors, etc, etc,

but all this means nothing, because someone who's never in their life been in a lab, other than maybe grade 12 biology, is far more expert to know what to do, not just for their own health, but for other people's as well.

Really, we've come to this? As the saying goes, maybe these self-appointed experts should try diy brain surgery next.

Oops, maybe I shouldn't post this, in case it hurts someone's feelings.

JMO
 

CSIDreamer

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I just don't see why people believe they are more expert on analysing and approving vaccines (whatever branch of science that is).

I mean, hundreds of teams of highly educated people, with collectively decades of experience, their lifetimes devoted to the pursuit of science at the highest level of excellence, all independently analyse the data, publish it, other teams test the results, together they reach the best consensus they can, taking into account hundreds of different factors, etc, etc,

but all this means nothing, because someone who's never in their life been in a lab, other than maybe grade 12 biology, is far more expert to know what to do, not just for their own health, but for other people's as well.

Really, we've come to this? As the saying goes, maybe these self-appointed experts should try diy brain surgery next.

Oops, maybe I shouldn't post this, in case it hurts someone's feelings.

JMO

You do know VAERS is a CDC site? They follow up? If my post about VAERS is what you're referring to. JMO
 

CrimeAway

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Has anyone read through the VAERS site? I did generated a report on the Pfizer vaccine out of curiosity. There is a lot of info there.

So much so I almost nodded off and had to back out of it.

I was looking at "cardiac" related events/reactions. I had a few unpleasant months after Pfizer.

Reports to VAERS can be made by anyone, and do not indicate that the reported event is caused by the vaccine in question.

VAERS - FAQs
 

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indicolite22

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Promote early treatment and testing, out patient easy assess pop up clinics for prescriptions, injections, or IVs of monoclonal antibodies. Each state received billions of federal funds, some states were proactive with treatment and had high infection rates but low death.

My state, you need an ID to get a vaccine or a test, that's tuff for the undocumented and those with our ID. Many have no insurance, in poor rural counties, the ER is their source of medical care and most wait till they are really sick.

We can't make individuals take the vaccine, but we can encourage, educate, and make the unvaccinated population comfortable and easy to receive treatment. They are jamming up our hospitals and our healthcare workers are worn out.

It's a work around, its an alternative that could improve our country.

All my opinion.....
BBM. Why can't we continue to encourage, educate and make the unvaccinated population comfortable and easy to receive vaccines? Why are vaccines considered "experimental" but treatment is not? I'm not sure about other treatments, but a dose of monoclonal antibodies is 100 times more expensive than vaccine.
 

Simply Southern

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@Arkay ..glad you mentioned smallpox, had an eye opening conversation about this a few weeks ago. Citizens were held at gun point, resisted from the get go. I guess history hasn't changed much. Article from NPR and many others.

How The 'Pox' Epidemic Changed Vaccination Rules

There were scenes of policemen holding down men in their night robes while vaccinators began their work on their arms," Willrich tells FreshAir's Terry Gross. "Inspectors were going room to room looking for children with smallpox. And when they found them, they were literally tearing babes from their mothers' arms to take them to the city pesthouse [which housed smallpox victims.]"

"There was one episode in Middlesboro, Ky., where the police and a group of vaccinators went into this African-American section of town, rounded up people outside this home, handcuffed the men and women and vaccinated them at gunpoint," says Willrich. "It's a shocking scene and very much at odds with our daily-held notions of American liberty."


People infected with small pox would also be quarantined against their will in large isolation hospitals called pest houses.

Resistance To Vaccinations

From the very start of the organized vaccination campaign against smallpox, there was public resistance, says Willrich. The battle between the government and the vocal anti-vaccinators came to a head in a landmark 1902 Supreme Court decision, where the Supreme Court upheld the right of a state to order a vaccination for its population during an epidemic to protect the people from a devastating disease.
 
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happyday

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https://miro.medium.com/max/865/0*IYWzJGuhl3zaWQBM

So, this is a picture of smallpox. Which has been recorded centuries before Christ and has killed hundreds of millions since it first swept the world through merchants trading by sea and over the Silk Road. Which killed 3 out of 10 people and caused untold suffering to those who survived.

Which was eradicated by a vaccine after Edward Jenner discovered that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox did not develop smallpox. Which led him to a process called "variolation" in which he injected some of the cowpox from the milkmaids' pustules into the gardener's son. Which led to the discovery of a true vaccine, which comes from the word for cow, since the milkmaids were the "Eureka" moment for Jenner.

Which led to a worldwide eradication campaign through vaccination. Which led to the last naturally acquired case in a 3-year old girl in Bangladesh in 1975, and the last case ever in 1978, and was declared permanently eradicated in 1980.

Which my parents made sure I received as an infant or child, before my memory.

And polio, which when I was a toddler was mainly affecting children, some of whom spent their childhoods in an iron lung, and for which I vaguely remember drinking some sugary pink drink, which was the polio vaccine, and which spared me.

I know there are people out there who do not trust vaccines. But a lot of trial and error went into creating a process by which our bodies could recognize and fight off a deadly disease. I'm quite sure we had some very nervous ancestors who weren't too sure this was a good idea. But the evidence speaks for itself.

Maybe people were also afraid to take antibiotics after Alexander Fleming's fortuitous accidental discovery, but it's why we will not die from the Black Plague.

IMO the vaccines are a miracle from God.
Well said, @Arkay. Vaccines have allowed humans to eradicate terrible diseases and live longer. I don’t get how people can be so skeptical and so afraid of taking a life saving vaccine for a new deadly disease wreaking havoc on humanity but be perfectly okay with getting the deadly disease and then taking all kinds of experimental treatments with who knows what side effects. It makes no sense and defies logic. At this point I think it really is a matter of when you get Covid not if. I sure wouldn’t want to take my chances of getting it or not. I think everyone will get it eventually.
 
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