Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #105

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CharlestonGal

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Shooting yourself in the foot seems to be an art form for way too many politicians. The governor of the state I live in has tried to do the same and has spent his time in court fighting county judges of all of the major metropolitan areas, fortunately he's lost every challenge, but what a waste of time, money and resources. Why is the simple act of wearing a mask the mountain they are determined to die on? I'll never understand.
For a percentage of people, the act of wearing a mask is not so simple. I remember the same drama and backlash when seatbelts were mandated, when motorcycle helmets were mandated. It was the same drama - no matter how many studies were published about the life-saving benefits of seatbelts and helmets - a certain percentage of people relentlessly resisted. Not because they had something against seatbelts or helmets per se. But because they simply do not want to be told what to do. Period.

It's not about the mask itself. It's the being told to do it that some people can't get past. And yes, some people are willing to die on that hill rather than give up an inch of personal autonomy and interferes with them doing whatever they want. jmo
 

Simply Southern

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BBM. Why can't we continue to encourage, educate and make the unvaccinated population comfortable and easy to receive vaccines? Why are vaccines considered "experimental" but treatment is not? I'm not sure about other treatments, but a dose of monoclonal antibodies is 100 times more expensive than vaccine.
Vaccine is cheaper but monoclonal antibodies outpatient/early treatment is cheaper than ICU. Its a tiered approach.

Do you see a way to make the unvaccinated take the vaccine? We've been talking vaccine for over a year, companies have offered $1000.00 or more to employees, fired the unvaccinated, threaten their jobs, they've watched friends and family for and they still don't take the vaccine. What now, what's the next step?

Of course vaccine is the number one option, number two is oral outpatient, IV patient, third ER/ICU. We must give our health are workers relief, our hospitals are in crisis.

All my opinion... vaccinated and boosted and all my family as well. I support vaccine!!!
 

MimosaMornings

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An acquaintance of mine was just released from a short Covid hospital stay. Sent home with THIRTEEN prescriptions.
Holy smokes. That’s a lot. My brother didn’t take that many after his organ transplant.
The possibility of drug interactions with 13 drugs. :eek:
I’ve seen discharge papers for Covid releases and there have been a laundry list but it included such things as vitamins and OTC Mucinex, plus an order for oxygen but never 13 pharmacy scripts. That’s mind boggling. Hope your friend continues to improve after the hospital stay.
 

Satchie

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For a percentage of people, the act of wearing a mask is not so simple. I remember the same drama and backlash when seatbelts were mandated, when motorcycle helmets were mandated. It was the same drama - no matter how many studies were published about the life-saving benefits of seatbelts and helmets - a certain percentage of people relentlessly resisted. Not because they had something against seatbelts or helmets per se. But because they simply do not want to be told what to do. Period.

It's not about the mask itself. It's the being told to do it that some people can't get past. And yes, some people are willing to die on that hill rather than give up an inch of personal autonomy and interferes with them doing whatever they want. jmo
Another example is condoms, that was a long, hard struggle, to promote safe sex.

"In 1986, I decided to ignore Cuomo and every medical expert — and became infected with HIV."

Opinion | I have AIDS because I didn't use a condom. I know the regret and guilt in valuing free choice above all.
 

Simply Southern

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An acquaintance of mine was just released from a short Covid hospital stay. Sent home with THIRTEEN prescriptions.
MY bestie's unvaccinated 38 yo daughter in law just spend 9 days in ICU. Her sister was the first person in our community to die from Covid. The husband and all other family are fully vaccinated.

She's on 4 Litters of home oxygen, a bag full of medicine and can't walk to the bathroom. Her entire world changed and she still won't get vaccine.

Moo...
 

Teche

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Reports to VAERS can be made by anyone, and do not indicate that the reported event is caused by the vaccine in question.

VAERS - FAQs
One individual who was posting regularly on a regional Covid/Vaccine Fb group regarding her issues with her vaccines. Lo and behold, she had a funding page to assist her. Some of her “group” kept quoting Dr. Malone and his followers. This was a group where numerous medical, college nursing professors and medical doctors posted. The focus was education, resources, etc.
 

Cool Cats

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@Arkay ..glad you mentioned smallpox, had an eye opening conversation about this a few weeks ago. Citizens we held at gun point, resisted from the get go. I guess history hasn't changed much.

How The 'Pox' Epidemic Changed Vaccination Rules

There were scenes of policemen holding down men in their night robes while vaccinators began their work on their arms," Willrich tells FreshAir's Terry Gross. "Inspectors were going room to room looking for children with smallpox. And when they found them, they were literally tearing babes from their mothers' arms to take them to the city pesthouse [which housed smallpox victims.]"

"There was one episode in Middlesboro, Ky., where the police and a group of vaccinators went into this African-American section of town, rounded up people outside this home, handcuffed the men and women and vaccinated them at gunpoint," says Willrich. "It's a shocking scene and very much at odds with our daily-held notions of American liberty."


People infected with small pox would also be quarantined against their will in large isolation hospitals called pest houses.

Resistance To Vaccinations

From the very start of the organized vaccination campaign against smallpox, there was public resistance, says Willrich. The battle between the government and the vocal anti-vaccinators came to a head in a landmark 1902 Supreme Court decision, where the Supreme Court upheld the right of a state to order a vaccination for its population during an epidemic to protect the people from a devastating disease.

Many people were resistant to wearing a mask during the 1918 - 1919
Flu Pandemic.

Compulsory mask-wearing in Pacific Northwest caused spirited debate -- and a jury trial -- during 1918-19 flu pandemic

‘Unmasking History’: Looking back at S.F.’s ‘mask slackers’ during the 1918 flu pandemic

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During the 1918-19 flu pandemic, Portland officials encouraged the public to wear masks. (The Oregonian)

file-20200706-4008-zh4ckj.jpg

Precautions taken during the 1918 flu pandemic would not allow anyone to ride street cars without a mask. Here, a conductor bars an unmasked passenger from boarding. Universal History Archive/Getty Images

LNM.mask_.history2.jpg


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Policemen in Seattle, Washington, wearing masks made by the Red Cross, during the influenza pandemic, December 1918. National Archives

LNM.mask_.history5.jpeg

A mask-wearing police officer confronts a maskless man during the Spanish flu pandemic in San Francisco in 1918. (Image courtesy of California State Library)
 
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CSIDreamer

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Holy smokes. That’s a lot. My brother didn’t take that many after his organ transplant.
The possibility of drug interactions with 13 drugs. :eek:
I’ve seen discharge papers for Covid releases and there have been a laundry list but it included such things as vitamins and OTC Mucinex, plus an order for oxygen but never 13 pharmacy scripts. That’s mind boggling. Hope your friend continues to improve after the hospital stay.

I had the same boggle. Friend definitely said 13 rx. I had to read it twice. I honestly don't know how my body would handle that much medication.
 

weepingangel

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Massachusetts enacts emergency measures to preserve hospital capacity amid COVID surge

More at link
Physician assistants are now allowed to practice independently without physician supervision under certain parameters, the Department of Public Health said in a new order Friday afternoon. And “internal moonlighting,” which lets resident physicians treat patients beyond their specialty areas is permitted — meaning health care providers can deploy personnel to the departments facing the “highest staffing demands.”

Health officials are now requiring state-licensed facilities to “expedite” credentialing, giving health care workers the flexibility to work at different hospitals and provider systems “to best meet patient care and capacity needs,” the DPH said.

Another state order expedites the medical licensure process for certain foreign-trained physicians with at least two years of post-graduate training, officials said.

Massachusetts will also loosen staff-patient ratio requirements at out-of-hospital dialysis centers while “maintaining safe patient care.”
 

Turkeytrot

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Has anyone read through the VAERS site? I did generated a report on the Pfizer vaccine out of curiosity. There is a lot of info there.

So much so I almost nodded off and had to back out of it.

I was looking at "cardiac" related events/reactions. I had a few unpleasant months after Pfizer.

I haven't looked, but also have had a few unpleasant months since Pfizer. :(
 

indicolite22

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MY bestie's unvaccinated 38 yo daughter in law just spend 9 days in ICU. Her sister was the first person in our community to die from Covid. The husband and all other family are fully vaccinated.

She's on 4 Litters of home oxygen, a bag full of medicine and can't walk to the bathroom. Her entire world changed and she still won't get vaccine.

Moo...
What was/is her reason for not getting vaccinated?
 

CharlestonGal

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Reports to VAERS can be made by anyone, and do not indicate that the reported event is caused by the vaccine in question.

VAERS - FAQs
VAERs is kind of a double-edged sword. On the one hand it's a valuable data gathering tool or "signaling" system, so to speak. On the other hand the raw data is being misused by the public and the media for purposes for which it was never intended. I've seen so much vaccine misinformation on social media and in the press citing VAERs "data" I just scroll on past and don't bother to read it.

What I started looking at instead is actual claims filed for vaccine injury. Those claims require medical records, physician statements, billing statements etc which is a whole other ballpark. Unlike VAERs, where anyone can input whatever they want without any kind of verification, the claims process requires actual proof of your identity and injury and supplies severe penalties for fraudulent claims.

Here's the official claims data as of 12/1/21.

Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP) Data
 

x_files

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I had the same boggle. Friend definitely said 13 rx. I had to read it twice. I honestly don't know how my body would handle that much medication.

Does insurance cover all of these prescriptions!
The friends I had who spent over a month in ICU were slapped with one million dollar medical bills. How are people going to afford these bills? and if they lose their jobs being in ICU that long?
 

beatrixpotter

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MY bestie's unvaccinated 38 yo daughter in law just spend 9 days in ICU. Her sister was the first person in our community to die from Covid. The husband and all other family are fully vaccinated.

She's on 4 Litters of home oxygen, a bag full of medicine and can't walk to the bathroom. Her entire world changed and she still won't get vaccine.

Moo...

The stupidity is mind boggling.

Examples like this make it clear the only way to vaccinate more people are more mandates and fines. I and many others I know have had limited medical care the last two years due to jerkwads like this.

They don't deserve the expense and resources when it comes at the expense of our society as a whole. They are people who only think about themselves and their person risk factors. Of course they are willing to risk the massive hospital bill if that's what it takes. They will only take it when it's forced on them. They won't do it voluntarily. But I don't really have any sympathy for them.

My parents, who I love, are unvaccinated. And their reasons are stupid and juvenile. My mother is afraid of needles. My father believes everything Natural News and Dr Mercola put out. These aren't fringe beliefs that are hurting no one but themselves. They are literally crushing the healthcare system and preventing others from life saving treatment. I'm all for crushing and stomping it out.
 

Arkay

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As an American, the notion of royalty is foreign to me. Yet, at the moment, I wish we had a figurehead who carried the authority and adulation of Queen Victoria.

The 19th century Dr. John Snow is my imaginary historical boyfriend, because I so admire his brilliant deduction that contaminated water was the cause of Cholera, and that when he saw the concentration of cases on Broad St., he had the water pump broken off.

My boyfriend Dr. Snow is also the one who administered ether and then chloroform to Queen Victoria for the births of her 8th and 9th children. Her (eager) acceptance of this newfangled twilight sleep was the catalyst for the widespread use of anesthesia as we know it now.

I am sure our English, Canadian and Australian friends here will know more about this history than do I, (and I think we have a Kiwi here, don't we)? IMO, though, any of us who have been under anesthesia owe a debt to Dr. Snow, and to Victoria's enormous influence over her empire.

However, I am speculating that a great many people were terribly troubled by the idea of putting the Queen in some kind of semi-conscious state. Her acceptance, approval and enthusiasm for the relief it brought her contributed to the worldwide acceptance of anesthesia as an alternative to the agony of awareness during surgery.

IMO medical advances are often slow in gaining acceptance, due to fear of the unknown. I wonder what future generations will think when they read about the division now over vaccines. I do agree that some people have medically sound reasons for not being vaccinated, but that the vast majority have political or conspiracy-minded reasons for refusal.

Jmo
 
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Satchie

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I guess history hasn't changed much.

That's not at all what the article says, or what the historian concludes: Consider reading the rest of it:

"We live in a very different environment today where there are extensive regulations governing the entire vaccine industry."

"Of course, it would be unconstitutional and go beyond the pale for health officials to forcibly vaccinate anyone because that's not within their power,

"the vaccine controversy today is one of the most important public health crises we face in America.

"Viruses spread in human populations from person to person and if you have a vast majority of a community vaccinated against that virus, the virus will simply never have a toehold in that community."

ETA: the article was written 10 years ago.
 

Cool Cats

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The stupidity is mind boggling.

Examples like this make it clear the only way to vaccinate more people are more mandates and fines. I and many others I know have had limited medical care the last two years due to jerkwads like this.

They don't deserve the expense and resources when it comes at the expense of our society as a whole. They are people who only think about themselves and their person risk factors. Of course they are willing to risk the massive hospital bill if that's what it takes. They will only take it when it's forced on them. They won't do it voluntarily. But I don't really have any sympathy for them.

My parents, who I love, are unvaccinated. And their reasons are stupid and juvenile. My mother is afraid of needles. My father believes everything Natural News and Dr Mercola put out. These aren't fringe beliefs that are hurting no one but themselves. They are literally crushing the healthcare system and preventing others from life saving treatment. I'm all for crushing and stomping it out.

About your parents not getting vaccinated I understand how you feel because a close family member of mine refuses to get vaccinated. Every time this person coughs I get nervous.

When you try to talk to them they try to convince you otherwise.

Yes, as you said:

"willing to risk the massive hospital bill"

Because this person has no health insurance.
 
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