Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #52

[LadyL]

Grade school students in the east end Hangzhou area are fashioning wide hats made from materials including balloons to keep others at least 3 feet away, according to the South China Morning Post.

SEE IT: Kids in China wear really wide hats to practice social distancing

 

[CSIDreamer]

There are over a hundred sixty countries I believe in the world that are going through this, can you point me to what is working?

No I can't because I said what we're doing isn't working.

 

[jjenny]

oh no!

The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto has declared a COVID-19 outbreak.

Toronto's SickKids Hospital declares COVID-19 outbreak

Sure sounds like the child was infectious and transmitted it to several people.

 

[tresir2012]

I think the reasons for that decision are quite different than what you think they are, but we can agree to disagree. It has little to nothing to do with whether children are contagious.

We're easing the same restriction here where I live, but advising common sense. For good epidemiological reasons (and with kids still out of school just as in Switzerland). Switzerland not only flattened the curve, they have a low per case mortality rate at this point, and they have a low rate of new cases per day. They also have extensive contact tracing (which we don't, yet, where I live). Schools will be opening and that may change people's common sense views.

I am only quoting Dr Koch, "Mr. Coronavirus", head Swiss expert of infectious diseases. When you say where you live is that the US? Switzerland appears to have a higher death rate than US.


Link. To article with some of his background.

Who is Switzerland’s ‘Mr Coronavirus’?

If he says kids under 10 are not infectious then I am interested in his view, plus the view of other countries. Why would he say kids under 10 are not infectious in your opinion? Do you think he is lying to get the country open? That's dangerous behaviour from an expert IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

The problem is with small sample studies, how to actually generalize those findings to the larger population can be hit and miss.

Hit or miss, and re-start a pandemic. Pretty big stakes.

Yes, I agree. And I'd want to see a big stack of small studies before generalizing (and right now, one of the key variables is totally unknown and yet unstudied, and that's the genetic makeup of the people who end up with serious cases).

Even among the very elderly, not everyone gets a serious case. We know that Vitamin D plays a role, as does obesity, and underlying conditions, but even so, not everyone who is elderly and obese has the same serious course. No one knows why some people are so suddenly and brutally attacked by this virus.

I'm pretty sure that the Western nations will have a restart of the pandemic, although a better way of describing it may be that nations will each achieve a plateau. The balance between the disease and the economy will be struck and in some places, that could mean 100 people dying per day for the next six months or year - or it could be 25, or it could be 400. Each nation has different circumstances (France is behaving like a crazy nation, IMO, and I love France, have done fieldwork there, I'm very into the French part of my heritage, etc). Individual cities in France have, for example, tried to mandate masks, but the French Supreme Court declared that this was against the French Constitution (Liberté).

So I guess, having everyone equally exposed to CoVid19 sounds okay to them (Egalité! Fraternité!)

They are a lot like the US, which I guess is no surprise. Our states do vary in their own constitutions, though.

 

[gngr~snap]

I'm still thinking the Rotavirus vaccine offers children protection in some way shape or form.
Moo
Common rotavirus vaccine may be key to protecting children against COVID-19

Indiana scientists, companies searching for COVID-19 vaccine

 

[cass523]

Heartfelt briefing Governor Cuomo today. Cuomo, Just the Facts

He mentioned how nice it was for the "Thank you salute," dedicated to the health care workers. "That was nice, saying thank you is nice, but how about rewarding them and making their lives easier, hazard pay, child care," and more examples.

more
"Thank you to the Front Line Workers who risk their lives every day. The fire department, the delivery drivers who go to 50 doors a day, nurses and doctors in the emergency room, the police officers, who go into homes because of a domestic disturbance, the EMT. They are All doing the work.

Front line workers are heroes, they risk their lives every day, showing up not because they get paid a lot of money, not because people say thank you and god bless you...
They are doing it because it is their value, their honor, their pride, their dignity. They show up. Even when it is hard, they show up. We need to make sure they are protected, they have the equipment, PPE, they have our respect, our gratitude and make sure they are tested and they get the results so they can take care of themselves."

There was much talk on politics that is not to be discussed here

“This is a self-portrait of America,” says Cuomo pointing to a wall of masks sent from around the US. “And you what know it spells? It spells ‘Love.’ “A little bit more of this and a little bit less of the partisanship and the ugliness and this country would be a better place.”

There are caution signs that we need to pay attention to. Singapore was under control and they are now seeing a second wave, with 900 new cases

"Singapore reported 1,426 new infections on Monday, a record jump in Covid-19 cases as it battles a new wave of infections in dormitories housing migrant workers."
Coronavirus latest: US warned about reopening, Singapore cases hit record

Germany relaxed and started to reopen, they are seeing an increase.
Germans have been advised to stay at home as much as possible and continue to apply physical distancing as official data appeared to indicate the spread of the Covid-19 pandemic was once again accelerating.

Andrew Cuomo on Twitter

VIDEO: Cuomo unveils 'self-portrait of America', shows large display on the wall

 

[jjenny]

I'm still thinking the Rotavirus vaccine offers children protection in some way shape or form.
Moo
Common rotavirus vaccine may be key to protecting children against COVID-19

Indiana scientists, companies searching for COVID-19 vaccine

And see, what the expert says here:
"But even more important, Patton notes, is that children can be asymptomatic carriers, spreading COVID-19 disease throughout families and communities."
Common rotavirus vaccine may be key to protecting children against COVID-19

 

[10ofRods]

I am only quoting Dr Koch, Coronavirus head Swiss expert.

Link. To his bio.

He's actually not their "head expert." He's head of the communications branch of the health services and is basically like their Dr Fauci - important enough, but not actually publishing any research. The head of the Health Ministry (his boss) actually disagrees with him. He quotes 4 other doctors (also unpublished) as agreeing with him.

No one else, anywhere on the planet, is saying the same thing - yet. He's using his sense of things, from his life experience. He is not a researcher. He's the PR guy for the Health Ministry, frankly.

If Dr Fauci broke ranks with the university scientists in the same way, he'd get lots of vocal criticism here in the US (and elsewhere). I think Dr Koch is receiving the same thing.

Dr Koch doesn't even have a hospital based practice. He apparently will continue to work, as he's done for 12 years, outside of any medical practice, as the spokesperson for the government's health branch (unless he's fired, which is a possibility).

Hospital-based physicians, especially those in infectious disease wards at tertiary care centers, are not saying what Dr. Koch is saying.

 

[jjenny]

I am only quoting Dr Koch, Coronavirus head Swiss expert.

Link. To his bio.

Whatever his bio is, I have no clue why he decided children aren't able to transmit the virus and don't have the receptors (what, children have ace 2 receptors).
I posted links to numerous articles where experts believe children to be infectious. I see no reason to believe Mr. Swiss guy over these experts and all the evidence that is already out there.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

And there will also be the knock on effect of all the cleaners, no longer required, and sandwich/lunch bars who won’t get the level of custom

Yep - all the little lunch time places, car parks, public transport companies, building firms who won't need to build any more office blocks. The domino effect, from the obvious down to the random, will be immense.

 

[MimosaMornings]

The article was only discussing grandchildren. I think parents could still transmit. Here's the Sky version of it.

Coronavirus: Swiss children under 10 allowed to hug grandparents as they 'do not transmit COVID-19'

Thanks @tresir2012
(It’s been an hectic afternoon and I was a bit distracted!)

 

[10ofRods]

I'm still thinking the Rotavirus vaccine offers children protection in some way shape or form.
Moo
Common rotavirus vaccine may be key to protecting children against COVID-19

Indiana scientists, companies searching for COVID-19 vaccine

There are papers that show that even the babies with their 6 month vaccines are more resistant to negative forms of CoVid19 (less symptomatic) and that with each new set of vaccines and each passing school year, children are less likely to show symptoms.

Then, in early adulthood, such things as obesity and diabetes seem to bump the severity up - but not too badly. It's possible that the big upswing (starting at age 40 but of course peaking closer to 69) may have to due with vaccinations being so long ago (and some of us...never having received some of them). I don't know any adults that have had the Rotavirus vaccine, for example.

One immunologist theorizes that vaccines active "memory T cells" that are of lifelong value in the body reacting swiftly to new infectious disease.

 

[tresir2012]

Children unlikely to transmit coronavirus, says study cited in PM's push to reopen schools
Children unlikely to transmit coronavirus, says study cited in PM's push to reopen schools
NSW report held up as Morrison government seeks return to classrooms across Australia despite warnings from teacher unions

A new report, cited by the chief medical officer as the federal government advocates the reopening of schools, says children are unlikely to transmit Covid-19 between each other or to adults.

The study by NSW Health’s Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance (NCIRS), released on Sunday, examined transmission of the virus in NSW schools and childcare centres between March and mid-April.

Examining the spread 18 of coronavirus cases (nine students and nine staff) from 15 schools, the report’s preliminary findings were that only one primary school student and one high school student “may have contracted Covid-19 from the initial cases at their schools”.


“No teacher or staff member contracted Covid-19 from any of the initial school cases,” the report added.

Macartney said the findings built on emerging data overseas showing children were not likely to spread the virus between themselves or to adults.

“A unique aspect of this work is that we were able to look specifically for spread in schools over many weeks and utilise additional testing methods,” she said.

The NSW government said that although school aged children represented around 16% of the NSW population, only 1.7% of Covid-19 cases had been recorded in this age group.

I am bumping your post with details of the Australiian study you linked that also says kids don't transmit CV. So will see if there are more like this.

I think I saw a Chinese study too so will post if I find that also.

 

[jjenny]

I am bumping your post with details of this Australiian study that also says kids don't transmit CV. So will see if there are more like this.

First of all, the study doesn't say children don't transmit it, it says they are unlikely to transmit it. Second of all, it's a very small sample, only 18 cases.
They are concluding something based on only 18 cases?

 

[MimosaMornings]

More Than 900 Inmates, 325 Staffers Positive for COVID-19 in Texas Prisons: TDCJ

 

[10ofRods]

Whatever his bio is, I have no clue why he decided children aren't able to transmit the virus and don't have the receptors (what, children have ace 2 receptors).
I posted links to numerous articles where experts believe children to be infectious. I see no reason to believe Mr. Swiss guy over these experts and all the evidence that is already out there.

Yeah, I can't figure out how he knows that either. He hasn't practiced medicine with actual patients since 2002. He's mostly been doing public policy and public health work. He says he talked to 3-4 doctors around Switzerland, but that doesn't seem to be a solid basis for this.

He's right, of course, that we can't go without human contact and touch forever. I think we should each make informed decisions. For me, the decision tree includes whether or not the grandkids are going to school/exposed frequently to viruses. Switzerland's overall course of this illness has not been that great.

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

In fact, I'm startled to see that data - they apparently haven't peaked yet and they've already had 1700 deaths. Out of 8.6 million and in a place the size of San Bernardino County in California. Roughly.

California has 1890 deaths, out of a population of 40 million. Greece has 139 deaths (but has implemented way more policies regarding CoVid than Switzerland). Greece has more people than Switzerland (10 million).

Anyway, we'll all stay tuned. The per case mortality rate in Switzerland is already far too high for many of us to consider going there and I'm surprised the Swiss find it acceptable. Maybe they don't - we're hearing that in some places, people are voluntarily doing things to slow the virus's spread.

 

[margarita25]

More Than 900 Inmates, 325 Staffers Positive for COVID-19 in Texas Prisons: TDCJ

238 inmates test positive for coronavirus at Sterling prison, the largest known outbreak in Colorado
Apr 28

 

[10ofRods]

First of all, the study doesn't say children don't transmit it, it says they are unlikely to transmit it. Second of all, it's a very small sample, only 18 cases.
They are concluding something based on only 18 cases?

Australia seems to be a special case (for many reasons, including massive amounts of social distancing and the fact that it is its own continent). So I wouldn't generalize to a place with such a high mortality rate as Switzerland (nestled as it is between several other nations with high rates of CoVid).

The factors in Australia are quite interesting. Southern parts of Australia know they need to get this under control before winter comes, people are complying.

 

[tresir2012]

Whatever his bio is, I have no clue why he decided children aren't able to transmit the virus and don't have the receptors (what, children have ace 2 receptors).
I posted links to numerous articles where experts believe children to be infectious. I see no reason to believe Mr. Swiss guy over these experts and all the evidence that is already out there.

He is not the only one saying it though. Not many kids get CV to study it, from what I can tell. Very few have died from it and so there is not much to go on IMO.