Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #97

Discussion in 'Coronavirus - Covid-19' started by Amonet, Jan 17, 2020.

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  1. SoCalDavidS

    SoCalDavidS Well-Known Member

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    What I'm having a hard time understanding, is that many of the people who thought the vaccine was useless and ineffective, and refused to get it, suddenly believe in it, simply because they're now infected with Covid.

    Shouldn't they still be saying it's ineffective? If they're convinced there's no point in getting vaccinated, since the vaccines don't work, what made them change their minds to thinking the vaccines would have saved them?
     


  2. MaryG12

    MaryG12 Well-Known Member

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    Was a study ever done comparing actual COVID-19 deaths not exacerbated by pre-existing medical conditions and deaths from other diseases (not COVID-19) for the year 2020? A study that is not agenda-driven nor narrative-driven?
     
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  3. ilovewings

    ilovewings Well-Known Member

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    I think it must be like being in a foxhole surrounded by enemy fire and all of a sudden all the people in the foxhole start praying to God-----even people who said they didn't believe in God----when you are looking at the real possibility of death, I imagine it is fairly sobering and in these cases, the vaccine is now God.
     
  4. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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    Are you looking for Covid versus other communicable diseases with vaccines?
    (Pertussis? Flu?)

    I tend to lean towards my local resources such as pulmonary team at local/regional hospitals, cardiologist, plus home health and hospice.
     
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  5. anneg

    anneg Well-Known Member

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    This article is definitely worth reading, IMO. Thanks for posting.
     
  6. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    The first variable you wish to be researched (deaths from COVID not exacerbated by pre-existing conditions) hasn't been done nor is there a good methodology for doing it. So such a study has not been. There have been "excess death" studies, in which a good number of deaths from heart attacks and strokes may (or may not) be related to COVID - no one knows.

    That's because if a person is diagnosed with COVID and dies in-hospital, it's a COVID death. But, especially in the young, we know there are many undiagnosed underlying conditions that would be unlikely to be diagnosed until later in life (heart arrhythmias, cardiac anomalies of other kinds, weakened vessels in the brain, endocrine issues, etc)

    The obvious pre-existing conditions (age and obesity) would be obvious, but some would not be. So we just don't know. For example, I know two women who are cousins (so, similar genetics - which to me is the absolute wild card in this - genes play such a big role in immunity), and one is thin (she died) and the other is mildly obese (she survived). We don't even know if it was a different variant and no one ever will, as the sister died and was buried without autopsy.

    Almost everyone has some kind of genetic "underlying condition." I for example have a gene called APOE-4 which, early on, was identified as a high risk for COVID. One of my daughters also has it, but the other daughter doesn't want to be tested. Nothing can be done about it, really. It has several negative correlations (one of which is heart issues - so I suspect that's where my heart issue comes from, but no one knows - my heart thing is mild but I wouldn't be surprised if that's how I go, eventually). No one has the time to do an extensive genetic and familial study of every single COVID patient - the hospitals and doctors have been overwhelmed.

    As it turns out, APOE-4 may be the culprit in part because it affects blood triglycerides and weight. Another group of genetically predisposed people are those with familial genes for diabetes, many of whom knew this and have exercised and watched their weight, so have avoided active diabetes. But there is some evidence to suggest that this is the group who walk out of the hospital with diabetes (or at least very high blood sugar that requires treatment) or who die in hospital with high blood sugar (not the immediate cause of death but certainly doesn't help with the inflammatory factors of COVID).

    I don't know if we'll ever figure it out, but I do believe that scientists and doctors at the really big regional medical centers (who often get the most seriously ill patients, though) are trying hard to get a vast database. I am enrolled in a couple of studies at UCLA and each time I go for treatment/examination they ask me a huge number of questions, some of which appear to have nothing to do with my condition (because...it's research). I'd gladly consent to a blood draw for a gene study if they ask, and have participated in other studies of that kind.

    The underlying condition of "low vitamin D" has been well-studied, but is not immediately obviously and I don't think most hospitals are routinely measuring vitamin D in incoming patients - as it doesn't relate to or help with current care...
     
  7. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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  8. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    First happy-making story of the day.

    I think the constant news coverage of "break-through" cases and the Delta variant have scared people. Of course, the US is almost back up to 100,000 cases a day, almost entirely among the unvaccinated.

    Now, the question is, are the unvaccinated finally spooked enough to be staying home?

    I do know that many vaccinated people at my workplace are still terrified (we're about to have our first day back on campus - so we had two online events to get us ready). I don't want to get COVID, so I"ll continue to mask everywhere I go (masks are required on campus), but I feel pretty certain I won't die or have a serious course of it. I still worry about long COVID. My daughter and family just went on a lovely vacation to San Diego (even with an unvaccinated child) and we traveled as far as Yosemite.

    Most of the breakthrough deaths are in the very elderly. So I understand why the very elderly (over 80/85) are scared. But I'm not getting why so many 40-somethings are as frightened. A mask and a vaccine should do it - especially someplace like a harbor. We go to our local harbor all the time and have, throughout the pandemic, because it's outdoors, breezy, humid, sunny and perfect for a COVID outing. I suppose the Delta variant makes it so that going indoors to grab some food to eat outside might scare people (so...wear a mask when you go indoors to get the food?)

    I am so glad you have that beautiful harbor and your boat...San Diego is glorious this time of year.
     
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  9. MaryG12

    MaryG12 Well-Known Member

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    Any diseases (cancer, etc) versus COVID-19, they do not have to be vaccine (pertussis, flu etc) related.
     
  10. ringbearer

    ringbearer Well-Known Member

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    Speaking only for myself, the answer is no. Not even slightly. Tbh, when I read this thread it's like entering an alternate universe. Where I am, there are very few people masked. I'd estimate less than 5%. And I know that our "fully vaccinated" rate is below 50%. Yet no one is talking about Covid any more. Nearly all of the signs and floor markers are gone. Masks are not required to go anywhere, etc., etc.
     
  11. anneg

    anneg Well-Known Member

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    BBM: Is the Delta variant in your area? Are Covid cases and hospitalizations rising? Just wondering.

    Who Are the Unvaccinated in America? There’s No One Answer.
    One segment of people who have avoided shots is vehemently opposed to the idea. But there is a second group, surveys suggest, that is still deciding.

    As coronavirus cases rise across the United States, the fight against the pandemic is focused on an estimated 93 million people who are eligible for shots but have chosen not to get them. These are the Americans who are most vulnerable to serious illness from the highly contagious Delta variant and most likely to carry the virus, spreading it further.

    It turns out, though, that this is not a single set of Americans, but in many ways two.

    In one group are those who say they are adamant in their refusal of the coronavirus vaccines; they include a mix of people but tend to be disproportionately white, rural, evangelical Christian and politically conservative, surveys show.

    In the other are those who say they are open to getting a shot but have been putting it off or want to wait and see before making a decision; they are a broad range of people, but tend to be a more diverse and urban group, including many younger people, Black and Latino Americans, and Democrats.

    With cases surging and hospitalizations rising, health officials are making progress in inoculating this second group, who surveys suggest account for less than half of all unvaccinated adults in the United States.

    (more at link)
     
  12. Knitty

    Knitty Well-Known Member

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    It's the same here. I'm in Florida, and our cases have risen astronomically, enough that the hospitals are raising the alert. But our state is not reporting cases daily and our governor is acting like we've got this. We don't. And since our governor has made it so that individual school boards aren't allowed to mandate masks, even though under 12 is not yet eligible for the vaccine, and even though cases in children are rising at alarming rates even though school is out, we won't.
     
  13. ringbearer

    ringbearer Well-Known Member

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    I honestly have no idea. The only time I hear about the delta variant is when I pass a tv turned to the news or reading this thread. No one is discussing it and I don't know anyone who has been effected by it, other than one person having to keep a child home from daycare for exposure to Covid. I'm not sure it was the delta variant, and I'm assuming she's not tested positive because, otherwise I think we, as her co-workers, would have to be advised that someone in the office had tested positive. I'm out and about every day at work, stores, restaurants, etc. and things seem to be almost completely back to normal but for a couple of random mask wearers and the plastic dividers that are still up in some stores. That's why I said reading here seems like an alternate universe to me.
     
  14. SoCalDavidS

    SoCalDavidS Well-Known Member

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    Just a heads up. We're going to fly past 100,000 New Cases today.

    CNN just said California has a 2021 1-Day Record for New Cases with 10,000 today.
     
  15. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Florida's cases are going through the roof. While the governor is busy stopping any measures to limit the spread.
    "Florida, which represents about 6.5% of the U.S. population, is accounting for about 21% of the country’s new cases, based on the data the state is reporting to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Florida’s seven-day average of new cases was 14,757 as of July 29, levels not seen since January, Florida’s worst month of the pandemic. The state also reported 75 new deaths."
    Florida COVID update: cases, deaths, vaccine count | Miami Herald
     
  16. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    Well, this is a covid thread ... so that is all that will be talked about here.
    In RL, I do not speak of covid to others. Other than if someone mentions that they have been vaccinated, are being vaccinated, or if we are discussing the guys at work needing to wear masks for protection and customer reassurance. In other words, in an incidental way.

    One thing I have noticed about friends in the US, is that there are more sudden 'unexplained' deaths recently. Before, people would say "Oh yes, she had cancer", or "I heard he had a heart attack". Now, when I ask what happened, nobody knows. Was it covid, was it something else (if so, why not say so, like they used to do)? Nobody knows.

    (Of course, somebody knows, as a COD would be on the death certificate. But whatever it was, no-one is saying.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
  17. ringbearer

    ringbearer Well-Known Member

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    I guess I meant the way it's being talked about and by how many posters. Just surprising to me. Carry on :)
     
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  18. BeachSky

    BeachSky Well-Known Member

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    I live in the US. My mother died suddenly last yr.
    And because of covid, hospital restrictions, lock down, travel etc ..
    I still don’t know what she REALLY died of ...even with a death certificate.
    I think the saving grace has been to take all my memories of her & wear them like a protective coat.Holding on to the sum of how she was wonderfully here and not the reason she is gone.
     
  19. TootsieFootsie

    TootsieFootsie Well-Known Member

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  20. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Out of interest, where are you and has Delta got there yet? You might find it changes things slightly.
     
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