Discussion in '2010's Missing' started by doodles1211, May 26, 2019.
Since FD apparently went with her to that first appointment, and knowing how controlling he is, I think it likely he went in with her to meet with Bowman - acting innocent - and then Bowman probably said he couldn't represent both of them. Perhaps he was a friend of her family, as OutforJustice mentioned, or he may have been a recommendation from FD's other lawyer, who said he couldn't do this one, too... moo.
She is old enough to remember who picked her up from school and, when she is older and begins to turn these events over in her mind again, much later in life, she will understand its significance. Her friends would know too. As for the other children involved, at the house party perhaps, they have already lost some of their childhood already. I believe Colangelo got the DNA quote from someone too young to have understood its significance at that time. Hence, FD's shock of recognition at the hearing. Tragic. IMO. MOO.
Words are just a means to an end for gaslighters. The truth is irrelevant. People are about as meaningful, to them.
In listening to that early interview, it's bewildering that he felt so inconvenienced by it all, as if this terrible thing had been done to him.
He needs to go away. For a long, long, long time so Jennifer's children, friends and family can grieve in peace. And safety.
I don’t often reply, I hope I got this quote right... can you elaborate on the DNA quote?
QUOTE="pandaknows, post: 15505095, member: 249765"]She is old enough to remember who picked her up from school and, when she is older and begins to turn these events over in her mind again, much later in life, she will understand its significance. Her friends would know too. As for the other children involved, at the house party perhaps, they have already lost some of their childhood already. I believe Colangelo got the DNA quote from someone too young to have understood its significance at that time. Hence, FD's shock of recognition at the hearing. Tragic. IMO. MOO.[/QUOTE]
I've long wondered about this FD quote too about 'leaving Michi' out of it.
An idea I've come up with is this: FD always believes he is the smartest guy in the room and my guess is that he is always measuring others in the world and comparing his view of their 'smartness' to himself (JF was IMO much smarter than FD but I don't think he realized this until it was too late!). My suspicion is that he did this exercise for MT and realised that she clearly wasn't as smart as he was and might not have been even smart enough to memorize and act out the 'alibi script' material and that asking MT to then get involved in whatever half baked story they were dealing with on the EE truck was simply beyond the capability of MT to handle. That's what is rough about having someone in the foxhole with you that isn't the brightest bulb, you need to manage them and what they know and I think this is what FD might have been trying to do.
Just a guess.
I don't think FD gives a rats ass about MT but he does care about himself so if he thought she would be a weak link on the EE truck story then it made sense in his mind to keep her out of that part of things.
Actually that sadly hasn't been playing out in Civil Court. FD and his counsel didn't show up I think 3 times over the past 2 years and Weinstein always filed for penalties and sanctions and he never prevailed unfortunately. The games are still ongoing and Judge Noble hasn't penalized FD once.
In looking over the file online today I have to admit to being concerned about Judge Noble and I hope he hasn't been compromised as there is still the outstanding order from a year ago where FD was supposed to deliver the Quickbooks and Judge Noble never enforced it. Then we had the recent confusing order from Judge Noble about Atty Norman Pattis motion to quash that made little sense and there was no follow on order to clarify the situation etc.
Maybe the Judge and the courts are simply overwhelmed that simple things get lost in the shuffle. But the problem is that this situation makes it easy for people such as FD, KM and Atty BM to abuse the system and sadly we have seen this all play out over and over in Civil Court.
The News 3 WSFB video of the hearing on June 11 where Colangelo requested an increase in bond for FD from 100k to 500k at 18:22 minutes in is the source for the witnesses at the BBQ who heard FD discuss that he was afraid the children would bring his DNA in the house inadvertently. That is a possibility. But it is still a weird topic to discuss at a children's party the Wednesday prior to Jennifer's disappearance. If no crime has occured, or is about to occur, one would not be too concerned about where one's DNA might be found.
Interesting to hear NP hesitate when pronouncing Atty Pyetranker's name like NP had never heard of him before. If genuinely unaware of Pyetraanker's role, IMO, another criminal attorney gave Apple iPhone advice to FD at the NCPD lobby on May 25. Atty Pyetanker's was on his cellphone speaking with FD's criminal attorney at that time. See AW2. MOO. Also, NP repeated part of the alibi script pertaining to the May 24 morning meeting with an attorney and a call with Greece, later discredited in AW2, in court like NP independently verified it. Not. MOO.
IMO Atty Bowman allowing MT to abuse her 5th amendment right in the Civil Case is a signal that he has made the calculation that whatever penalty she will get for the infraction in Civil Case outweighs the risk of the information from her deposition making it to the State and public domain. To me, this is a HUGE red flag that MT is into the FORE criminal activities in a BIG BIG way and is vulnerable to some substantial charges. Atty Weinstein was quite clear to NOT deal with any questions associated with JF disappearance/murder in the deposition so unless criminal activities of FORE could somehow be tied to the disappearance of JF and her possible murder and maybe that is what Atty Bowman is concerned about? IDK.
Its just very strange for there to be an apparent deal between Attys in this case on how the MT deposition would be handled and then to see Atty Bowman not noticing Atty Weinstein on the motion he was filing, leads me to believe that the entire working relationship has broken down terribly. I do also have serious doubts that Atty Bowman is not running the show on the MT legal representation as it doesn't seem to be his style to play a bush league game or back off an arrangement with a Plaintiffs atty. Atty Bowman knows that any atty is only as good as their reputation and their word and sadly it seems like both of these items for him at least have taken a huge hit.
I do wonder who the person behind the curtain is that is running the MT show might be? Is it Mama A? Is it Atty. Norman Pattis? Is it some attys from FL or elsewhere that know the family and Mama A or Papa T? It also really has me wondering what all MT has done that is so terrible and what she and her atty's are so fearful of from a legal standpoint? My guess is that whatever the issues are is that they relate to Federal crimes and they are very serious or she is very closely tied to a capital State crime in a very direct way that there is no way she can escape from. To see Atty Bowman and MT fight so hard against the deposition has me also very much believing that the extent of criminal activities that were run through FORE far exceed what any here might imagine.
I believe Atty Norman Pattis knew precisely who Atty Pyetanker is/was and his longstanding relationship with FD as his atty in Family Court and his role in 'preparing' FD financial disclosures for the court. We know that Atty Pyetanker was on the phone at the NCPD outside and I wonder who he was speaking with at that time? Was he speaking with KM or perhaps even Atty Riccio (he seems to have possibly dodged a bullet by escaping from this messy situation but he might have been involved at the time FD was at NCPD possibly).
IMO Atty Norman Pattis spouting the 'alibi scripts' for over 2 months makes him look like an atty who didn't do their due diligence on their client and I really do wonder about the 'quality 'of the interviews done on FD by Atty Smith and Atty Norman Pattis at the time of engagement? The fact that they weren't able to uncover any of the 'alibi script' lies suggests to me that they weren't aware of the lies or maybe worse they knew FD was lying and had no problem repeating the lies thinking they would roll the dice and wait and see if the State uncovered the lies.
I do think that any/all people involved with the 'alibi scripts' such and KM, Greek Benefactor or FD sister are at risk for charges and I do very much wonder if an atty/s repeating such known lies and saying they have affidavits in support of the lies might just be subject to prosecution and charges or professional disciplinary hearings etc. too?
Its all quite interesting to try to understand whether repeating statements known to be false by officers of the court is ok or not? I for one am very curious whether Atty Norman Pattis knew he was repeating false statements and this included the much repeated statements about MT being an alibi and MT taking a polygraph and 'passing'. Where do courts hold officers of the court responsible for their statements? Its quite mysterious to me why nothing has been done to hold Atty Norman Pattis or Atty Smith responsible for any of their public statements?
I agree 100%. MT was seen as a "weak sister" and too stupid to lie convincingly. Hey MT, your boyfriend thinks you're stupid.
BBM (3 sections to note, above ^)
ITA. If Atty Bowman is giving her proper representation - he at least appears to still be running the show* - either:
1) He should have her tell the truth, if she's not completely, seriously, over-the-top guilty, or
2) She's completely, seriously, over-the-top guilty!
*If he were not, or is no longer running the show, he could bring that up and recuse himself/drop this case, methinks.
I still want to know if CT taxpayers are paying for her representation - and/or that of FD.
Chris Watts didn't want his mistress brought into "this" either. Do these guys really think no one will challenge their stories?
I hope AW3 is stunning.
I want to know the movements of the entire sinister cast for the day of and the days immediately before and after. I rather hope they wrote their alibi script on the back of a dated receipt.
What do they do with their time now? I doubt MT is brushing up on her differential equations.
What if she's not talking at all? Even to her own counsel? I honestly think she's waiting to see what charges happen.... because except for cracking on his alibi, she's holding tight having no idea what happened JF or what FD was throwing away on Albany Avenue. Who WAS she talking to? Me, I've dated plenty. If my bf stopped at TWO trash cans, pretty sure I'd ask what he was doing. Maybe he said, "Don't ask." So she didn't. Probably didn't need to.
I guess we can all hope! For my 'hope' I'm wishing for AW3, AW4 and AW5 to be dropped on us sometime over the next 6 months in full technicolor and HD!
AW3 can continue on with the MT nonsense and non answers first seen in AW2 (ditto for FD) and just give yet more examples of her/his tampering/hindering and possibly new charges associated with ongoing lying to LE and provide more specific examples of how MT was very involved with the 'alibi scripts' and how she might have gone to specific locations to be captured on CCTV to 'prove' her location, further examples of premeditation, possibly more info on MT 'manning the FD phone at 4Jx' on the 24th - how many calls did she answer and was this phone possibly used to forward calls to another burner phone or was there some way MT was in communication with FD in the red truck, possible kidnapping charges for both MT and FD?.
AW4A can be any / all criminal activities associated with FORE group that involve FD and MT and others and might just be related to a AW4B which just might be full federal charges associated with Criminal activities of MT and FD for Fore Group.
AW5 can disclose all the players in this JF tragedy, their locations and their roles in the disappearance/murder of JD and give the basics of the extensive forensic trail left by MT and FD and other/s in the murder of JF.
Looking at Atty Bowman I don't doubt that he has advised his client on the proper way to proceed given her situation. I cannot make this same assumption for Atty Norman Pattis though unfortunately as he seemed satisfied to repeat to the public the untruths of his client even after the AWs mentioned the 'alibi script' related lies. My guess is that what happened in the case of MT and FD is that both clients lied to their respective counsels from day 1 and only said enough in order to get released from jail on bond. My speculation is that Atty Bowman is doing the best he can with MT but is limited by the evidence he has received so far which is clearly quite damning for hindering/tampering and this alone could put her in prison for 10 years.
Beyond whatever basic statements have been made to get them out of jail, I'm not too sure Atty Bowman knows much. I would think that he would be trying to run a parallel investigation the same at what Atty Norman Pattis says that he is doing on behalf of FD. Where things get murky though for me is that Atty Bowman based on history works to stay out of court and in this case he wants a jury trial and perhaps is signaling the state that he is willing to go to trial if the deal offered isn't good enough for MT. But, the signals to the State weren't followed up with cooperation from MT and this is a huge problem if Atty Bowman isn't running a parallel investigation as he won't have any way of corroborating anything MT says as about the only thing he knows now is that she is a habitual liar.
Atty Bowman could just tell his client not to speak and wait to see what case the State puts on and what additional charges are filed. The risk I think with this strategy is that the evidence trail is cold and there might not be any way to save MT at this point.
Given the amount of time that has passed and how there seems to be no indication of any 'cooperation agreement' in place for MT, I'm beginning to wonder if what MT might have done has been proven by the State to be such that she no longer qualifies for a 'cooperating agreement'?
Its all so tough to speculate about but you would think that by now MT might have woken up to reality, but maybe not? Maybe she still can't come to terms with what she has done. We know by virtue of the fact that she was meeting with Atty Bowman in advance of her being arrested that she KNEW she was at great risk and needed counsel.
I think the Alibi Scripts are the most damning evidence against “her”.
MT could say she didn’t know what was In the bags that FD was fly dumping in Hartford ,
didn’t know what the substance was on the rag FD handed her ,
didn’t know why FD needed to get EE’s car washed ,
didn’t know she had EE’s keys .
Her various lies she could pass off as being “Dazed and Confused”.
I don’t like MT and her gang.
BUT it is her absolute right to USE the Fifth Amendment. To invoke that is one of our country’s greatest rights. We might believe she should be forced to testify and she’s hiding behind the Fifth Amendment.
I’d like to squeeze her to get her to tell us what she knows. But we can’t do that. It’s not how this country is set up to deal with breaking our laws.
What I don’t appreciate, and what I’m reading between the lines, in WS, is that it appears MT and her gang get to invoke their rights, and are supported by CT. judges. But Mr. Weinstein has to jump through hoops to try to enforce his client’s rights. And still does not have the support of the judiciary in CT.
That’s the travesty. The Rules are not being applied evenly to all parties. CT has no right to pick and choose who gets rights and who doesn’t get rights. We all get the same rights. We should all get the same enforcement of those rights.
That’s not what we see here. IMHO, that is why Jennifer Dulos is no longer alive. Had the family court judges used their powers, FD would have been brought to his knees early on. Instead, FD just became more brazen with every victory. Some judge has to have cantaloupes and make FD, MT and everyone else comply with the court’s orders. Until that happens, I’m afraid we could see the biggest travesty of all:
He’ll get away with murder.
BBM: About the bold by me....this fact has always made me wonder if FD did in fact sneak inside JD's house that evening (perhaps to grab a key or unlock a window), thus the reason it was on his mind and he was already making an excuse for it? What if he had had to go the bathroom? Was he not allowed inside?
I'd be curious to see pics from that night, I'm imaging there are some with him and the kids maybe? I wonder if he had already cut his hair/shaved at that point.
I am honestly shocked JD's remains have not surfaced in some manner. It is so sad to think that having her remains found would actually be a relief to so many at this point.