Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by doodles1211, May 26, 2019.
I don’t think I can go there
Honestly, I still can't wrap my mind around the horrible possibilities you mention...denial. It certainly seems possible after reading this recent article from NBC news about Chris Watts inhumane, casual destruction of his wife and beautiful daughters.
'Not able to detach myself': Investigators in Chris Watts case still reeling
Really...how does this type of event happen? I totally agree there is no explanation for the Albany Avenue horror show...no way that I can understand that evil.
NP referenced that his client has an explanation way back in July 2019....am waiting to hear it...really...Why don't you share that with LE?
Fotis Dulos' Lawyer Says There's An 'Explanation' For The Alleged Bags Of Bloody Clothing
This quote is from the Middletown Press a few years ago.
Norm Pattis: The law rarely yields certainty
"Perhaps I come by this attitude by way of my heritage. My father was an illegal immigrant, sneaking into the United States from Canada as a child with his father. They both came from Crete in search of opportunity.
My father found opportunities, all right. For years, I’m told he made his living as an armed robber, taking cash payrolls at gunpoint in much the same manner as did Sacco and Vanzetti. Unlike them, he never got caught, even when he shot a man and then fled from Detroit to Chicago to start a new life. He took the young woman his was seeing with him. She soon became my mother.
He disappeared from my life as if by black and horrible magic when I was eight, and I did not see him again for almost 40 years. When we were reunited, he was filled with excuses that didn’t make sense. I couldn’t summon much love for him — affection had long fallen through the bottom of my broken heart, leaving a taint of bitterness I carry like a bad-luck charm to this very day."
On the Other Hand, this is an online obituary of James Pattis:
View James Pattis's Obituary on dailypress.com and share memories
WILLIAMSBURG - James Pattis passed away Wednesday, June 13, 2007. He was a native of the Island of Crete but was a resident of Williamsburg for 31 years. Mr. Pattis was a Director of Youth Group Homes for 20 years before retiring in 1995. He is survived by his wife, Jan (Heatwole) Pattis, and two grandchildren, Isaac and Sarah Pattis. The family will receive friends from 9 to 10:45 a.m. Friday, June 15, at Nelsen Funeral Home, 3785 Strawberry Plains Road, Williamsburg, VA 23188. A graveside service will be held at 11:30 a.m. Friday, June 15, at Cedar Grove Cemetery. A memorial celebration will follow at 1 p.m. at the Williamsburg Hospitality House, 415 Richmond Road, Williamsburg, VA 23185. Memorial contributions may be made to your local Salvation Army. Nelsen Funeral Home is in charge of arrangements. Online condolences may be registered at www.nelsenfh.com.
Published in Daily Press on June 14, 2007
Notice he is survived by his wife (not Norm's mother) and two grandchildren, Isaac and Sarah. Those are the names of Norm's children, but obit does not include Norm. Go figure.
I totally agree with you.
I've said all along that IF we ever find out what
he did with and to her body we will be sickened beyond our imagination.
I personally don't think we'll ever know UNLESS he shared w/ MT for shock value.
Will she share this? Remains to be seen. So far it doesn't seem she will.
The man is missing a part of his brain that controls empathy, character, morals and any feelings for another human being. He is a
shell of a human.
100 years ago, he would have been killed outright for being such a misfit. Or in the animal world he would have been snuffed out for being such a misfit.
Sadly he lives among us.
Abandonment of one's children leaves an indelible mark on the children's psyche.
Especially for boys, many never get over it and
many carry this misplaced anger and resentment with them for the rest of their lives.
I've seen it IRL, and it is indeed very sad.
As NP says about himself, this fatherly abandonment makes social adjustment very
difficult if not impossible as an adult.
I don’t think I can go there
What about the “abandonment” precipitated by the murder of your mother by your father? I wonder what NP thinks of this, and the people he defends who commit these crimes?
Awhile ago I made a FOIA request to Atty Michael Bowler, counsel for the Statewide Grievance Cmte, for a copy of the bar panel's written determination of probable cause, which CGS Sec. 2-32(k) says shall be a public record. No response from Bowler. I filed a complaint with the FOIC. Haven't heard anything on it. Also, the written decision of the SGC review cmte on the hearing of Oct. 3 should be in by now (60 days?), but didn't see it online when I looked yesterday. Could they be holding it up until after NP argues the Dulos case gag order before the SC this coming week? Sounds like special treatment of NP by the Judicial Branch. MOO
Notice the comment to that article by "Blue beer"
"This is bull, frankly. Norm clearly has serious mental disorders, as well as his client(s). I had a similar upbringing - A LOT of people have - and it had the opposite effect on me; it made me GIVE A DAMN about injustice and choose to make a difference in the world. Norm seems to gets off on his rebellion and alignment with criminals because deep down he wants to act the same way due to his affected means of dealing with his "poor" upbringing. I know people with far more tragic early development years who do not lie to judges, courts and media as a means to gain freedom for violent murderers ..... period! Gawd, he is so dramatic and self-righteous in his orchestrated sob story to justify his neurosis and unlawful means of practicing law!! It's all part of his PR campaign to victimize the perpetrators!"
I agree with that opinion.
I WOULD LIKE TO BUY THE POSTER 'BLUE BEER' A CASE OF BEER!!!!!!!!
A+, Bingo and Bravo!
"Victimize the Perpetrators" - YES, YES and YES! - Atty. P. is a total one trick pony!
Perfect analysis IMO and so glad you posted it here! IMO the comment from "Blue Beer" so perfectly isolates all the issues with Atty. P. that are so irritating along with the nonsense spewing forth from him about 1st amendment rights!
This is quite unfortunate to hear to tell you the truth. Not surprising, but still disturbing. Will give it some thought as AT A MINIMUM the Press should be on this issue big time and I would think that Judges where Atty. P. is in Court currently would express concern as well. Something about this is not sitting right with me. I hope they aren't trying to get the Danbury Judge to retract their compliant!
The horror of these cases is truly unimaginable. TRIGGER ALERT FOR VIOLENCE BELOW SO SCROLL AND ROLL IF ITS UPSETTING PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still haven't recovered from Watts and now all these special shows are bringing up the horror of what a psychopath/sociopath can do with zero remorse. The Frazee trial has created similar feelings in the many that followed that case for over a year and again the impact and violence of a sociopath is front and centre. Awhile back someone sent some info about the wife of the ex-CEO of Amazon in Mexico who was in the middle of a divorce and who was gunned down/murdered in Mexico City last week by assassins while on her way to a meeting about her divorce. This womans daughter posted pictures of her mother yesterday showing the brutal beating that her husband gave her with a baseball bat WHILE SHE WAS SLEEPING. The daughter woke up to hear her mothers screams and to see her body covered in blood.
DV cases and DV murders run the gamut in my experience but so often do involve sociopaths and certainly narcopaths. But the violence of the deaths is something that always sets these deaths apart in my mind as there is usually some aspect of the death that is personalised to the victim. Each case is heartbreaking and the reason I do follow these tragic and upsetting cases is because few others do and these victims rarely have a voice unfortunately.
I am convinced that no matter what FD said in his Dateline interview that there was psychological abuse and even possibly physical abuse in the relationship with JFd. This is purely MOO based on reading the public info. FD will of course deny this and no doubt Atty. P. will come out swinging in court in support of FD view of his relationship with JFd but THEN will go on to degrading/debasing and whatever other de-word they can come up with shame/blame the victim because that is what Atty. P. does as and frankly all he is capable of doing as a legal professional IMO.
These cases are tough because its hard to see people in a relationship of any kind treat another human being such as we see here in the case of JFd over and over.
We learned in Civil Court that the relationship with Michelle Troconis and Fotis Dulos started in 2015. FD by his own account in the "Greek Articles" which IMO violated the present 'gag order' said his relationship to JFd ended or changed in 2010. The divorce action in Family Court started in 2017 after JFd left 4Jx. So, FD stayed in a by all accounts 'dead' relationship for at least 7 years. There is no telling the psychological damage or even physical pain that could have been inflicted on JFd or her children during this period. Children are amazingly intuitive, even when quite young. We already know that one of the children was in the car when FD mother was run over twice by the Nanny without a drivers license. What kind of damage did this experience have on this poor child? But looking at the greater picture here, the 5 children based on the FD timeline of 2010 being when the marriage broke down NEVER really got to see two parents in loving relationship ever. Not only that, by the time the children which were older might have realised what was going on they would have been aware of the divorce issues, psychologists, interviews with GAL, no contact orders possibly, pickup instructions that went awry, not being able to speak with their father without supervision etc. To me, this sounded like hell on earth for these poor children and I am saying this not in judgment as I am absolutely convinced JFd would give her life for her children (and probably did IMO), but because the life of these children in their most vulnerable and formative years from a development and psychological standpoint was the DIRECT RESULT IMO of choices by FD.
I'd love to understand the psychology of anyone that signed on to be a parent of 5 children then make the decision to not make healthy choices in his own behaviour in the relationship to SAFEGUARD THE WELLBEING of his children. I'm not sure narcopath adequately describes the type of person the would subject 5 children and a partner to at least 7 years of dysfunctional and damaging behaviour but its probably the best tag we have. Clearly Fd has zero ability to think of others and simply IMO thought of himself and his ongoing access to Farber money.
Fd said in Family Court that he isn't a 'monster'. Mmmm. IMO if the above behaviour doesn't precisely define behaviour that is 'monstrous' then I'm not sure what would? IMO the tag 'monster' is simply too tame a word to describe what Fd did to his partner and his family over a sustained period of time. I do have absolute confidence that even with a dysfunctional Family Court system in CT that some Judge somewhere will someday terminate the parental rights of Fd based on a long and yes perfect track record as someone who IMO should never have access to children ever.
Even is Fd is convicted, children often rationalize what happened and may deny their
father actually did it. It's a coping mechanism
for children. They simply DON'T want to believe it so they don't. Probably similar to what his sister is doing. moo.
NP- can't imagine how he rationalizes what he
does for a living other than he found a niche
to make money and it works for him.
Personally I have certain limits on dealing with
those who are so unlike myself. Maybe he doesn't draw those boundaries.
Thank you for being so persistent....you're quite amazing!
In our ongoing quest to understand the death of Mama Duolos in the driveway of 585 Deercliff here is some work that Gray Hughes has done on the topic. The Avon PD accident report was posted previously in this thread for reference.
Thank you for an extremely thoughtful, and IMO, right on target post, about the damage that the FD children have suffered as a result of the decisions their father made. I might add, these were singular decisions by a man who refused marital counseling when he got around to telling his wife that HE had decided the relationship was over.
And, I completely agree that he was emotionally abusive to JFD. Everyone who has read her blogs picks up the generous descriptions of FD's thoughtless acts and bullying he did in that family. He had no regard for the schedules or needs of the rest of the family. He was the BOSS!
No matter how he or his family try to frame his behavior...their infamous words..."These things happen...." it was a deliberate decision by a person who wasn't man enough to behave in an honorable fashion by working with his spouse to improve their relationship or leave her quickly with her dignity intact. Nope...these things don't just happen, they are the result of decisions and shortcuts that inflict pain to everyone in the family....it's a process, but not one FD began in earnest and gave directives to JFD until HF was dead. Money was his driving force....MOO....MOO
That's why it's all the more disgusting that NP would put out the "Gone Girl" theory about Jennifer, to make the kids all think she abandoned them.
If it was so painful for him, why does he want to purposely and falsely put that pain on 5 young children?
Some very good posts her afitzy and Tink!
I still wonder what happened to Fd as a developing child to have warped his brain in
such a way. Was he horribly abused? Was he
psychologically abused and tortured?
Somewhere along the way he chose to defend and protect
himself at the expense of others. How he psychologically abused others shows us he is
indeed a monster. See how easily that word
flowed off his tongue?
So who was the monster in his past?
And how does a monster like him get created?
bbm Now this is some good sleuthing right here, @pernickety!
This makes me realize - why didn't I realize it before? - that Norm Pattis's story about his father being such a terrible person may well be all lies - a pathetic, concocted "excuse" for him being a terrible, messed up person himself.
Did he make up the "Gone Dad" thing about his own father - since he's so comfortable with lies? Perhaps that's why he wants to make it up about Jennifer being a "Gone Girl"?
From the information you found, it is quite clear that his own father disinherited him. Perhaps because he is such a vile person, his own father could not stand him. Perhaps his parents had simply divorced and he could not handle that.
He's a messed up individual, and he's causing a lot of harm to other people.
Atty. P. has publicly stated (article posted ages ago on prior thread) that he is 'on the couch' 4 days a week and it sounded like he had been there for awhile.
So, issues are real or at least they are real in his mind. IDK. But it seems safe to say that the 'guy's got real issues' IMO.
I guess also if Atty. P. really were some 1st amendment champion using his legal skills such as they are in defense of the the weak and defenceless then I think I would be by his side banging the drum in support. THIS IS NOT THE CASE as we don't ever see Atty. P. taking on these kinds of cases IMO!!!!!
IMO only, Atty. P. simply picks up the banner of the US Constitution conveniently to push his shabby agenda and then uses loopholes in poorly drafted legislation to allow his clients to slither away from responsibility for whatever heinous acts they most likely committed. IMO only, entire schtick is simply a legal gimmick that is about as far away from truth or justice as one can possibly get in the very complicated US legal system. Sadly, victims rights have little to do with the world of Pattisville either and its for this reason that I do hope the 'gag order' appeal is DENIED and that records in the criminal actions against FD and MT are sealed by the CT Criminal Court system. I am convinced that given the circumstances and the obvious deficits of the CT legal system that its the only way there might be a shred of hope for justice for JFd.