Cutting

[McKEire]

All this media coverage on her essay of "Cutting" is really bothering me. It in no way indicates she was a cutter, and even if she was, that makes it ok for those kids to stalk and harrass her? that makes her suicide ok? It kills me that she is being victimized even in death.
I am not sure the correct place to put this, but I just wanted to introduce myself since I am kind of a newbie. I have been on WS since 2008, the CA case brought me here. I lived in Orlando for 5 years and the locations were all very familiar to me, and I also have a 3 yo with the same name. I have been following the Phoebe case, and found that WS had this subforum, I am so happy to have a place to discuss this case with people that care.
Phoebe has been on my mind every day since her death. I have never cried over one person so much before, and I didn't even know her. I was a cutter in high school and suicidal as well. I could almost feel her pain, even though I was not bullied to the extent she was.
My mother went to SHHS for one year and was bullied as well, by the lacrosse team.
Two childhood friends had to leave SHHS in the 90's because they were bullied so bad.
But what I find the most confusing is that every single male I know that went to SHHS denies there was/is a problem and agrees the media should go away.
My best friend in high school was D.S. daughter. I wonder what he would have done if that happened to her.
Just wanted to explain myself since I am on post #5 but have been here since 2008.

 

[Herding Cats]

The autopsy would show if she had scars that would be consistent with cutting.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Paladine]

AC did not cover Phoebe's case last night. Wonder why not?

I noticed that! I stayed up to catch it and it never came. I bet the Dr. or AC360 got a call from the family lawyer! I BET!

Or many, many angry emails...

 

[Paladine]

The autopsy would show if she had scars that would be consistent with cutting.

Best-
Herding Cats

Hello, Herding Cats Yes. It would be easy to see.

But it's also irrelevant and a way to divert blame from the perp and place it on the victim, imo...

 

[Laurence]

At the moment all this ridicules coverage of the cutting essay is setting the stage for the defense to trash her before we get any possible trials. This misfire by the media is essentially a free shot that the defense doesn't have to take (and thus they don't get directly blamed for blaming the victim). They just get to take advantage of the effects.

We all know that attacking the victim is the classic strategy, and given the number of people in South Hadley around the net who keep saying "when you know the whole story" or "she was troubled, you will see", this will do nothing but make it more difficult for her to get justice for what was done to her.

 

[daisy7]

All this media coverage on her essay of "Cutting" is really bothering me. It in no way indicates she was a cutter, and even if she was, that makes it ok for those kids to stalk and harrass her? that makes her suicide ok? It kills me that she is being victimized even in death.
I am not sure the correct place to put this, but I just wanted to introduce myself since I am kind of a newbie. I have been on WS since 2008, the CA case brought me here. I lived in Orlando for 5 years and the locations were all very familiar to me, and I also have a 3 yo with the same name. I have been following the Phoebe case, and found that WS had this subforum, I am so happy to have a place to discuss this case with people that care.
Phoebe has been on my mind every day since her death. I have never cried over one person so much before, and I didn't even know her. I was a cutter in high school and suicidal as well. I could almost feel her pain, even though I was not bullied to the extent she was.
My mother went to SHHS for one year and was bullied as well, by the lacrosse team.
Two childhood friends had to leave SHHS in the 90's because they were bullied so bad.
But what I find the most confusing is that every single male I know that went to SHHS denies there was/is a problem and agrees the media should go away.
My best friend in high school was D.S. daughter. I wonder what he would have done if that happened to her.
Just wanted to explain myself since I am on post #5 but have been here since 2008.

Thank you, McKEire, for sharing and I'm happy you're posting in Phoebe's forum!

 

[Paladine]

A photo of Phoebe...not an outfit I'd wear if I had scars to hide...just sayin'...

 

[Paladine]

All this media coverage on her essay of "Cutting" is really bothering me. It in no way indicates she was a cutter, and even if she was, that makes it ok for those kids to stalk and harrass her? that makes her suicide ok? It kills me that she is being victimized even in death.
I am not sure the correct place to put this, but I just wanted to introduce myself since I am kind of a newbie. I have been on WS since 2008, the CA case brought me here. I lived in Orlando for 5 years and the locations were all very familiar to me, and I also have a 3 yo with the same name. I have been following the Phoebe case, and found that WS had this subforum, I am so happy to have a place to discuss this case with people that care.
Phoebe has been on my mind every day since her death. I have never cried over one person so much before, and I didn't even know her. I was a cutter in high school and suicidal as well. I could almost feel her pain, even though I was not bullied to the extent she was.
My mother went to SHHS for one year and was bullied as well, by the lacrosse team.
Two childhood friends had to leave SHHS in the 90's because they were bullied so bad.
But what I find the most confusing is that every single male I know that went to SHHS denies there was/is a problem and agrees the media should go away.
My best friend in high school was D.S. daughter. I wonder what he would have done if that happened to her.
Just wanted to explain myself since I am on post #5 but have been here since 2008.

respectfully bolded by me...so true.

IMO, I think the boys having a problem admitting they HAD a problem, is alot the same as abused kids who deny the abuse in order to feel close to their abuser...as soon as they own the abuse...they will feel anger and pull away from the abuser. In SH, the 'abusers' are everywhere. It seems systemic, to me. The culture. If they pull away and get angry...where do thet turn? I can feel some empathy for the choice they have to make. But I hope they find the courage to stand, even if it is alone, for what's right and honest.

 

[thebear14]

A photo of Phoebe...not an outfit I'd wear if I had scars to hide...just sayin'...

yeah I've actually been meaning to mention that Phoebe had plans to wear a spaghetti strap black dress to cotillion - again, not a dress I would wear if I was a cutter. Cutters tend to want to hide their scars - not show them off.

 

[Laurence]

A photo of Phoebe...not an outfit I'd wear if I had scars to hide...just sayin'...

True... but timewise that's at Villiers (the boarding school in Ireland) and the photo would be 7th grade or so (and I am pretty sure she was pulled out and went to her mothers school for 8th grade, the year before they came to the US). So it may pre-date alleged cutting problems (which as of now there is no evidence of, just accusations from bully supporters in SH).

 

[Laurence]

yeah I've actually been meaning to mention that Phoebe had plans to wear a spaghetti strap black dress to cotillion - again, not a dress I would wear if I was a cutter. Cutters tend to want to hide their scars - not show them off.

Excellent memory, that's right. Sadly, that's also the dress she they used for her services.

 

[Paladine]

True... but timewise that's at Villiers (the boarding school in Ireland) and the photo would be 7th grade or so (and I am pretty sure she was pulled out and went to her mothers school for 8th grade, the year before they came to the US). So it may pre-date alleged cutting problems (which as of now there is no evidence of, just accusations from bully supporters in SH).

Beautiful pictures, Lawrence...I think you put that one up, eh? I received from a person who cares, some beautiful new images of pics we had and put them on the photo thread, today. I received a tutorial on posting pics...and what do you know? I did it! :crazy: I think I'm going to add an email link to my posts so if people have any pics or info, they can anonymously email, too...as soon as I figure out how... I saw has one...I want one, too...lol...

PS>>>NO idea how that angry smilie got there!!! And I don't know how to take it off...lol...oh, well...

 

[Paladine]

yeah I've actually been meaning to mention that Phoebe had plans to wear a spaghetti strap black dress to cotillion - again, not a dress I would wear if I was a cutter. Cutters tend to want to hide their scars - not show them off.

DING, DING, DING! :toastred:

WE have a WINNER! And for you, thebear14...:rose:

 

[thebear14]

DING, DING, DING! :toastred:

WE have a WINNER! And for you, thebear14...:rose:

why thank you

 

[thebear14]

Hi McKEire Thanks for posting.

All this media coverage on her essay of "Cutting" is really bothering me. It in no way indicates she was a cutter, and even if she was, that makes it ok for those kids to stalk and harrass her? that makes her suicide ok? It kills me that she is being victimized even in death.

yeah I agree - it's been bothering me as well. After the first day or two of it I just started to ignore it all because these people just don't get it. First, as you said, just because she wrote an essay on it in no way indicates that she was a cutter and second, even if she was, it definitely doesn't make her being harassed okay or her suicide okay. As far as I'm concerned, nothing Phoebe did makes what they did to her okay, nothing at all.

I am so happy to have a place to discuss this case with people that care.
Phoebe has been on my mind every day since her death. I have never cried over one person so much before, and I didn't even know her. I was a cutter in high school and suicidal as well. I could almost feel her pain, even though I was not bullied to the extent she was.

yea I agree. I have never been so bothered by someone's death that I didn't know. I only started following this case around a month ago, when the charges came out. I had heard about it before but just kind of brushed it off. For the past month though, the case has consumed me. It's made me very sad, and very angry. It's like I'm in mourning for someone I never knew, and it's very difficult. Luckily we have this forum so we can discuss aspects of the case and how we're feeling and for the most part everyone is very kind and receiving

also, thanks for sharing your story about also being a cutter and suicidal. I know it's not always an easy thing to talk about. I too was a cutter off and on from around 12-15. It's not generally something I bring up because it's not how I identify myself. However, it was something I went through and dealt with at a young age and I think that's why this particular aspect of the story is making me angry. Too many people are opening their mouths about something they really know nothing about. And although I was a cutter and dealing with some pain and sadness, I was never suicidal. I thought about it at times, but never seriously enough that I would consider myself suicidal. It was never a real plan or thought in my mind. Also, as a cutter, I can tell you I would never have written an essay on cutting that would be seen by my classmates while I was going through it.

I've mentioned this before, but cutting is a lot more common than most people would think, and it's not just these greatly disturbed, weird kids doing it - it's kids you would never imagine. I say this not because I'm trying to say Phoebe was a cutter, I mean it's possible but like we've been saying, it seems unlikely right now. I say this because I know we've read a lot about how Phoebe seemed fine the day she died and the days proceeding it, besides her getting down about the harassment. Just because she seemed fine on the outside doesn't mean she was okay on the inside. I remember many times acting like a normal silly 14 year old girl at school then coming home and falling apart. You never know what's going on on the inside of someone.

anyway, sorry for making this a long rambling mess of a post. Just wanted to comment on a few things McKEire said as well as some things that have been swirling around in my head for the past few days.

 

[Herding Cats]

Hello, Herding Cats Yes. It would be easy to see.

But it's also irrelevant and a way to divert blame from the perp and place it on the victim, imo...

I completely agree about it's (ir)relevance...and also agree it's a defense tactic. I guess I'm thinking that in pretrial motions, there would/should be a motion to supress based on evidence (or lack thereof) in re: cutting.

I feel ever so bad for Phoebe and her family...and keep them in my prayers.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[redsky]

I hate when the defense in a trial puts the victim on trial - by attacking their character. "He/she did such and such", almost like an excuse as to why the perp did what they did.

 

[Paladine]

I posted this on the photos thread but thought I'd post it here, as well. It's a good picture, more recent, with arms totally exposed in a shorter dress...and because it's pretty...see the spark in her eyes?

 

[thebear14]

I posted this on the photos thread but thought I'd post it here, as well. It's a good picture, more recent, with arms totally exposed in a shorter dress...and because it's pretty...see the spark in her eyes?

very pretty

I actually found out that picture isn't that recent - it was taken while she was still in Ireland. It may be about a year old but wasn't taken in America as I originally thought.

 

[redsky]

I have yet to even see a scrape on her body. And whoever brought up the fact that they would see the scars at the autopsy THANK YOU! You are right, all of that would have to be recorded and marked.