Darlie's "Hypnosis"

[Jeana (DP)]

Hi IrishMist,

The idea that one is "butting in" would never occur to me. I want to hear everyone's beliefs about this case, even Mary's. :truce:

I have read bits and pieces of the transcript, several years ago. It made me sick how "unprepared" (Goody's too nice!) Mulder was. :banghead: He didn't put up a fight at all. Now I'm wondering if he didn't owe the prosecutor's office a favor. I know, the greenhorn is showing in full force.

Knowing that the state's witnesses had mock trials, or a mock trial, took some of their credibility away.

Can you point me to specific parts in the transcript? I'll never have the time to read through the entire thing.

Sweetie, Mulder's client and her husband told a different story every time he talked to them. How prepared do you think he was able to get?

 

[accordn2me]

"No one said anything about "analysis" being done on the spot, etc., so let's not start saying things that never happened."

Pardon my choice of words. I thought one would have to analyze things to come to a conclusion. In my life experience, I have found that even professionals make mistakes. Sometimes they make hasty ones.

"All they said that was that there was blood "washed" down the sink (i.e., the water on was and some of the blood accompanied the water into the drain)."

When they show a picture with cleaning supplies right next to the sink, unless they said, "ignore the Ajax, we put that there while looking for blood inside of the cabinet" they are implying Darlie used the supplies to try and clean the place up. Maybe that implication was totally unintentional on their part.

The police did their job. It was Mulder's job to, at the very least, TRY to point out sloppiness, things they missed, etc. Darlie would have faired just as well had Mulder never stepped foot in the courtroom and she had defended herself.

 

[cami]

Hi IrishMist,

The idea that one is "butting in" would never occur to me. I want to hear everyone's beliefs about this case, even Mary's. :truce:

I have read bits and pieces of the transcript, several years ago. It made me sick how "unprepared" (Goody's too nice!) Mulder was. :banghead: He didn't put up a fight at all. Now I'm wondering if he didn't owe the prosecutor's office a favor. I know, the greenhorn is showing in full force.

Knowing that the state's witnesses had mock trials, or a mock trial, took some of their credibility away.

Can you point me to specific parts in the transcript? I'll never have the time to read through the entire thing.

Oh come on, you think he threw the trial because he owed Davis one.

He had a guilty client and nothing to work with. He went for RD, it didn't work. The jury saw what a cold blooded beyotch Darlie is during the trial and they heard her tell lie after lie during her testimony--some by omission "I don't remember" What a crock.

 

[cami]

"No one said anything about "analysis" being done on the spot, etc., so let's not start saying things that never happened."

Pardon my choice of words. I thought one would have to analyze things to come to a conclusion. In my life experience, I have found that even professionals make mistakes. Sometimes they make hasty ones.

"All they said that was that there was blood "washed" down the sink (i.e., the water on was and some of the blood accompanied the water into the drain)."

When they show a picture with cleaning supplies right next to the sink, unless they said, "ignore the Ajax, we put that there while looking for blood inside of the cabinet" they are implying Darlie used the supplies to try and clean the place up. Maybe that implication was totally unintentional on their part.

The police did their job. It was Mulder's job to, at the very least, TRY to point out sloppiness, things they missed, etc. Darlie would have faired just as well had Mulder never stepped foot in the courtroom and she had defended herself.

they have to move things around and photograph the evidence they find underneath whatever was moved. I.E. once they moved a blanket or pillow not sure which, they discovered Damon's bloody handprint on the carpet in the murder room.

I suspect that forjustice site is trying to influence us towards sloppy police work by posting that photo on that site.

 

[accordn2me]

Sweetie, Mulder's client and her husband told a different story every time he talked to them. How prepared do you think he was able to get?

I would think he would be able to "formulate our questions properly." I would think he would object to hearsay testimony, like Greg Davis did when Mulder tried to use it. I would think he would want more than a two hour meeting with Laber and Epstein.

 

[accordn2me]

Oh come on, you think he threw the trial because he owed Davis one.

He had a guilty client and nothing to work with. He went for RD, it didn't work. The jury saw what a cold blooded Darlie is during the trial and they heard her tell lie after lie during her testimony--some by omission "I don't remember" What a crock.

Johnny Cockran had a guilty client too. JC had to deal with a blood trail that led directly to his client's bedroom. It makes me sick that OJ got away with murder. Unlike Mulder, JC did what he was hired to do, and with a lot less than Mulder had.

I don't know why Mulder let himself look like he had never questioned a witness before. I don't know why he didn't retain Laber and Epstein. There is no way I could ever explain it. What he did looks like professional suicide to me. Obviously, it wasn't.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Oh come on, you think he threw the trial because he owed Davis one.

He had a guilty client and nothing to work with. He went for RD, it didn't work. The jury saw what a cold blooded b!tch Darlie is during the trial and they heard her tell lie after lie during her testimony--some by omission "I don't remember" What a crock.

Attorneys don't win or lose capital murder trials (or any other trial) because they "owe" the other side anything. If anyone thinks that ANYONE is going to take a chance of losing their hard worked for career over Darlie Routier they've got another thing coming. What a joke!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I would think he would be able to "formulate our questions properly." I would think he would object to hearsay testimony, like Greg Davis did when Mulder tried to use it. I would think he would want more than a two hour meeting with Laber and Epstein.

What testimony exactly are you talking about when you say "hearsay"?

Darlie couldn't even get her answers straight on the witness stand from one minute to the next. That's what happens when people lie. They have to tell another lie to try and make the first one work, and on and on and on. Mulder did the best he could with a liar defendant with a liar husband. I find it hysterical that anyone could blame Mulder for Darlie being where she is today.

 

[accordn2me]

What testimony exactly are you talking about when you say "hearsay"?

Darlie couldn't even get her answers straight on the witness stand from one minute to the next. That's what happens when people lie. They have to tell another lie to try and make the first one work, and on and on and on. Mulder did the best he could with a liar defendant with a liar husband. I find it hysterical that anyone could blame Mulder for Darlie being where she is today.

Hearsay would be: "Didn't you tell Jane Smith, blah, blah, blah." or, "Do you remember telling Susie Doe that Darlie said....." That type of testimony is hearsay. Greg Davis put Darin through a grilling with it, all without one objection from Mulder. OK, maybe one. It seems like the people Darin supposedly told things to were named Corrine something and Jamie ____ .

Sorry, I'm not that familiar with this case, either. I find it hysterical that anyone could say Mulder did a fine job. I wonder if they, not knowing anything about the case, could read the transcript of Darin's testimony and think, what an impressive defense attorney!

Two possibilities, there may be more, either Mulder knew exactly what he was doing and offered no (extremely minimal) defense. Or, he didn't know what he was doing.

 

[Dani_T]

You can believe that EVERYONE who Mulder put on the stand was prepped by him - and some more than a few times.

Yep- exactly my point.

The defense witnesses would have been no less prepped than the prosecution witnesses.

 

[Mary456]

Yep- exactly my point.

The defense witnesses would have been no less prepped than the prosecution witnesses.

Of course they were, Dani. Darlie and her defense team (5 top guns), met to discuss the 911 call. They advised her about what she said or didn't say, and that's how they came up with "frightening" instead of "fighting".

Darlie had to deny she said "fighting", because she insisted she couldn't remember anything that happened during the attack...so how could she remember fighting an intruder? Also, the crime scene didn't support an attack by a murderous madman. Candles and knick-knacks still in place on the sofa table and end table.

So, as pathetic as her excuse was (aided by her formidable defense team), she changed the 911 call transcript from "fighting" to "frightening". I was frightening. Not only did Darlie have a poor command of the English language, she was stupid enough to think the jury would fall for it.

 

[Dani_T]

Edit: after posting I realised some of this had already been addressed- sorry!

In Darlie's case, two things are appalling to me. First, Cron (and I seem to have confused him with Linch so please correct me if I do it again) said that it took him 20-30 minutes to decide Darlie did it!

That's not actually correct. What Cron said was that after 20-30 minutes his initial conclusion was that it was obvious that there was no intruder- not that it was Darlie. We are talking about a super experienced and very well reputed crime scene analyst here who after walking through the house for half an hour (which is actually a fairly extended period of time if you think about the area they are covering) saw that the evidence did not gel with the intruder story.

18 Q. You are telling them, "Guys, this is
19 what I think, there is no -- hey, the die is cast."
20 A. Right. Well, I told them after the
21 walk-through, when I came around the front, I said,
22 "Look, we have no intruder here."
23 Q. Yeah, right.
24 A. That was my verbal comment.
25 Q. That is Lieutenant Cron's analysis
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2365
1 after, what, did the walk-through take 20 minutes?
2 A. 20 or 30, yes, sir.
3 Q. 20, 30 minutes. Okay.
4 A. It was so obvious it didn't take long.

The second thing is the picture of the kitchen sink with cleaning supplies right next to it, along with the allegation Darlie cleaned the sink. That right there is enough to make me, greenhorn, believe the police are making the evidence fit their theory.

First of all I can't remember anywhere in the transcripts where the cleaning of the sink was linked with the cleaning products in the photos (I don't have my book with me at the moment so can't check the products but will try and remember to look tomorrow to see what was out). I can't actually remember any cleaning products. There were certainly cleaning products UNDERNEATH the sink and interestingly enough there is a run of blood INSIDE that cupboard which means Darlie opened it and dripped blood inside it. Why did Darlie open up the cleaning cupboard?


However, your theory that the police set up the scene to make it look like she cleaned up jumps the evidence a bit because the whole 'clean up' scenario was developed as a result of testing finding blood patterns washed OFF the sink- patterns not visible to the naked eye. There is no way the police could have known that those patterns existed at the scene when they were taking photos.

 

[Dani_T]

3. When Darlie did whatever it was in the sink, whether it be cut herself and washed some blood down the drain; or whether it was wet towels to throw to Darin to apply to the boys' wounds, blood seeped between the cabinet door and was found there.

Just a quick thing on this- I don't see how blood could have seeped between the cabinet door and the 'frame' of the cabinet. I don't have my picture in front of me but from memory there is a blood run which starts about halfway down the vertical frame underneath the sink... is that right? For that to have gotten in there like that it means a large blood drop managed to free fall between the door and the frame without hitting either and meaning there was a significant gap between when the door is closed and then it hit the vertical frame and formed a run from there.

That seems pretty much impossible to me. I can't see how that blood made it there if the cabinet door was closed. Of course I might have mis-remembered the picture so will look at it tomorrow.

Edit: Just found this from Linch-

22 Q. All right. Was there blood actually
23 visible on the cabinetry?
24 A. Oh, yes, sir.
25 Q. How about on the handles to the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2799
1 cabinets?
2 A. Yes, sir. There was blood on the
3 knobs to the cabinets below the sink.
4 Q. All right. Now, did you or Miss Long,
5 in your presence, open up the doors to that cabinet?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. All right. And, did you see anything
8 unusual when you opened up the doors to the cabinet?
9 A. There was blood present inside the
10 cabinet, consistent with the door having to have been
11 opened when the blood was shed.
12 Q. All right. So, in your opinion, was
13 the blood on the facing or the outside of the cabinet,
14 that was consistent with having been deposited when the
15 doors were closed?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. All right. Was there also blood
18 inside that was consistent with having been dropped while
19 the doors to the cabinet were actually open?
20 A. Yes.

 

[michelle]

OK I am watching old interviews with darlies family and they said she wanted to take the truth serum and do regression therapy, what happened with that??

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Just like the polygraph test, it couldn't have been too good for Darlie, or we would have heard about it a MILLION times over. I suspect it just confirmed her guilt.

 

[Goody]

OK I am watching old interviews with darlies family and they said she wanted to take the truth serum and do regression therapy, what happened with that??

She was hypnotised a few years ago and she claims that she struggled with two intruders while she was on the couch, that one was tall and white and the other short and dark skinned, and that one of them fell on Damon. The therapist ended her report by saying more sessions would be scheduled but I have never heard of any.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I never told Darlie my theory that someone fell on Devon and that is what started the whole mess. Kinda scary she says it about Damon.

I have looked at the pics in MTJD of the family room and the kitchen. The TV is up off the floor and while you think it is impossible for intruders to see while breaking in I would like to share some information.

I posted what I found on another thread- the moon was 3 days waning from full.
This would emit enough candle power to illuminate the garage especially because they have no blinds over them. Light goes into all the windows not just the one they supposedly used for entrance. The boys used the garage window as a quick entrance to the freezer and popsicles. They had already cleared a path. They did this in front of other kids too, they could have been seen by anyone casing the house.

The TV being on doesn't necessarily fully light the room. It depends on what is being shown on TV. It does make a difference that the TV is up off the floor this means that a huge light void exists on the floor level. Stay up late turn off all the lights and turn on your TV. Watch the floor and walls and see how the light changes with the program. Commercials seem to be well lit but night scenes are darker. A lot of people use timers or other devices to turn lights or TV's on and off to make it seem like someone is home. This may not have been strange to an intruder and they may have assumed this was the case. They were not expecting anyone to be at home. They were operating under the belief that the family would be gone. They had received this information from somewhere, the streets, or directly from Darin. They were not looking for people to be home.They may have seen blankets on the floor and couch and not the heads of the people sleeping. They are operating under false information and the truth is what scares them away without any goods.
They didn't come to kill anyone but the tripping over one of the kids as their eyes were on the TV not the floor, is what started the whole thing.
Darlie's intruders aren't eliminated as suspects in my mind based on the information I have seen here. I can see why they didn't see the family on the floor and the couch. I can see how they got in and out without disturbing the knickknacks. Even a robber doesn't act like a bull in a china shop he might break something he wants to steal. The noise might alert neighbors. Small items like figurines and stuff aren't usually touched anyway. Darlie's knickknack case was well down the hall and not close to where the sleeping family was or the paths they took going back and forth themselves. They themselves didn't even knock stuff over trying to help or call 911. The house might have had a lot of stuff in it but it wasn't packed to the ceiling making movement impossible or improbable. Darlie's struggle does disturb stuff- the glass top table is disturbed, why not just fling the whole wine rack to the ground it would make a much more dramatic statement than breaking one glass and pushing one wine bottle over. You could explain your fingerprints, as I thought I'd pick it up and grabbed it then changed my mind didn't want to mess up the crime scene like I did the knife. Or it was in the way and I had to get into the kitchen for towels so I moved it over. Darlie would then have a big reason to put some shoes on -all the broken glass and she wouldn't have to worry about those footprints in blood, giving her an alibi to the garage -to get her shoes she can't walk across that much broken glass.
The planning if planned would have been a lot more if they did it together or even alone.

One of the most comman mistakes people make are because of assumptions, we don't see the truth as we are not seeking it. We are operating under a false sense of "rules" based on what we have been told.

If Darin had decided to cancel his home robbery plan with another "contractor" one he didn't trust, one he didn't give the proper dates to cause he didn't trust them, explains why he was shopping for someone else to do the job.

If Darlie did it alone she didn't cover come up with a very plausible story.

If Darin helped or did it himself he did a good job, as he is free.

Each one of the theories surmised by the defense and the prosecution is very understandable and probable. Which one fits all the pieces together the best. I do remember occams razor and each one could be the right answer.

I'm looking at all of them together and collectively.

 

[michelle]

So she did have the therapy but nothing really came of it because it was probably bad for her.

 

[Goody]

If the kids were sleeping in front to the TV and the TV was on the far side of the room, how would someone just entering the room accidently trip over them? Wouldn't they have to pass sleeping Darlie first?

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

If the kids were sleeping in front to the TV and the TV was on the far side of the room, how would someone just entering the room accidently trip over them? Wouldn't they have to pass sleeping Darlie first?

Look at the photos again. The boys would be on the floor Darlie on the couch. There is a pic at justicefordarlie gallery 4. It is a cut out shows where boys were found. Shows placement of couches etc. Darlie is on far couch I believe. Entrance to family room would funnel the person into the sleeping Damon if he is outside the couch and table perimeter. Devon if he was where his blanket was.