Day 7 The DNA/ 12 Days of JonBenet

[Duchess518]

What is the mythical butt print?

 

[PositiveLight]

What is the mythical butt print?

Ok the mythical butt print.
Mary Lacy did a walkthrough of the crime scene on like the 30th of December. She stated that a butt print was noted in the carpet outside of JonBenet's room and it looked like someone had their feet up close and their knees to the chest. No other marks were noted in the carpet. She said they all thought that this is where someone sat to wait to kidnap
JonBenet. When she made her decision to exonerate the Ramsey's this played a part in her decision. Yet no one else remembers a butt print. There's no proof of the butt print. Also... how would you know if a mark on the carpet was a butt print anyway? The area I circled was supposedly the area she referred to finding this mysterious butt print. Anywhere up there the parents or Burke would have noticed someone sitting. There's two flights of stairs outside of her bedroom. Plus Burke would have had to walk past anyone also. The story is just that. Mythical. Like a unicorn.
That Mary Lacy based her decision off of that plus DNA that she knew wasn't workable DNA and she exonerated the Ramsey's. Their Lawyer Lin Wood has used her exoneration for his defense all these years too. Now he has nothing to go on.
I hope that made sense too? lol!

 

[Heymom]

Yes, this is correct. I remember reading this as well. When the FBI realized the sketchiness that was going on, they packed up and got the hell outta there. They were there to advise, but realized quickly they were wasting their time.

It wasn't that they were wasting their time, but that it really wasn't a kidnapping case and they were right. If JonBenet really had been kidnapped, it would have been FBI involvement from the start to the finish, but since it was going to turn out to be a murder by someone in the house, they had no jurisdiction to stay involved.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Also, the FBI offered assistance to the BPD but then-Chief Koby turned them down. What a stupid move! I still can't wrap my head around it. The detectives were not happy about it, obviously. Steve Thomas talks about it in his book.


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[Duchess518]

Ok the mythical butt print.
Mary Lacy did a walkthrough of the crime scene on like the 30th of December. She stated that a butt print was noted in the carpet outside of JonBenet's room and it looked like someone had their feet up close and their knees to the chest. No other marks were noted in the carpet. She said they all thought that this is where someone sat to wait to kidnap
JonBenet. When she made her decision to exonerate the Ramsey's this played a part in her decision. Yet no one else remembers a butt print. There's no proof of the butt print. Also... how would you know if a mark on the carpet was a butt print anyway? The area I circled was supposedly the area she referred to finding this mysterious butt print. Anywhere up there the parents or Burke would have noticed someone sitting. There's two flights of stairs outside of her bedroom. Plus Burke would have had to walk past anyone also. The story is just that. Mythical. Like a unicorn.
That Mary Lacy based her decision off of that plus DNA that she knew wasn't workable DNA and she exonerated the Ramsey's. Their Lawyer Lin Wood has used her exoneration for his defense all these years too. Now he has nothing to go on.
I hope that made sense too? lol!

THANK YOU! I've never heard of this before. Makes me smh. Lacy is...no words for this.

 

[PositiveLight]

Also, the FBI offered assistance to the BPD but then-Chief Koby turned them down. What a stupid move! I still can't wrap my head around it. The detectives were not happy about it, obviously. Steve Thomas talks about it in his book.


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I would have been begging for help from the FBI!
They had to know they were in over their heads from the beginning. Nothing wrong with admitting that either. What is wrong though is turning down help from the FBI with their vast many experts.

 

[PositiveLight]

THANK YOU! I've never heard of this before. Makes me smh. Lacy is...no words for this.

It was the first I had heard of it too!
Apparently when Kolar asked the people who saw it with her, they had no clue what she was talking about.
It's obvious to me if you have corrupt DA's, no matter how hard a good detective works, they will never be able to get the truth out if there is to be a coverup.
She had a conflict of interest too with the Ramsey's. She didn't want to ruin her relationship with them. WTH. No integrity.

 

[Duchess518]

It was the first I had heard of it too!
Apparently when Kolar asked the people who saw it with her, they had no clue what she was talking about.
It's obvious to me if you have corrupt DA's, no matter how hard a good detective works, they will never be able to get the truth out if there is to be a coverup.
She had a conflict of interest too with the Ramsey's. She didn't want to ruin her relationship with them. WTH. No integrity.

So sad. Everyone forgot there is a dead little girl in The middle of this

 

[Ambitioned]

Yes they did :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I used to ask how Woody could sleep at night. I ask the same about ML, AH, and everyone else who stopped the train of justice.

 

[singularity]

So sad. Everyone forgot there is a dead little girl in The middle of this

Like my grandma would've said, it was all about the greenback dollars.

Yes they did :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I used to ask how Woody could sleep at night. I ask the same about ML, AH, and everyone else who stopped the train of justice.

LIke him or not, what he does is understandable. He's their lawyer. It's when the prosecution and others closely associated with the case are in collusion with the defense that there is a major problem and one in dire need of being exposed.

 

[PositiveLight]

Like my grandma would've said, it was all about the greenback dollars.


LIke him or not, what he does is understandable. He's their lawyer. It's when the prosecution and others closely associated with the case are in collusion with the defense that there is a major problem and one in dire need of being exposed.

RBBM- Ain't that the truth!
That's why I don't understand how the citizens of Boulder aren't demanding answers to this case. I wouldn't want that corrupt bunch in charge of my loved one's murder case.

 

[BBB167893]

RBBM- Ain't that the truth!
That's why I don't understand how the citizens of Boulder aren't demanding answers to this case. I wouldn't want that corrupt bunch in charge of my loved one's murder case.

I wouldn't want them in charge of a bicycle theft. And you're right: the people of Boulder ultimately must shoulder the blame. If I had been living there, I'd have had a mob down at the DA's office with torches and pitchforks in the wake of the JMK debacle.

 

[PositiveLight]

I wouldn't want them in charge of a bicycle theft. And you're right: the people of Boulder ultimately must shoulder the blame. If I had been living there, I'd have had a mob down at the DA's office with torches and pitchforks in the wake of the JMK debacle.

AMEN!
What I would like to know is there anything we can do as concerned citizens to work on pushing for answers? Are there people we can write to? The way I look at it, each child that dies has lost their voice to speak. If family aren't stepping up to the plate to demand answers, shouldn't we speak up? Apparently Boulder citizens aren't concerned about this case being solved. But it's happening all the time. We see children murdered by family members and acquaintances of the family. At what point is enough enough? I'm really interested in joining together to push for answers. JonBenet deserves it. The BPD can say they are working on the case till the cows come home but the only new evidence coming to light is by others hands. It's not okay how the Ramsey's were treated with kid gloves. If laws need to be changed then we should work towards changing them. Some statutes of limitations imho are ridiculous. Accessory to first degree murder has a statute? That SHOULD NOT exist. So many things went wrong in JonBenet's murder investigation. Procedure wasn't followed. I could go on and on.
But from this link I gather that they can extend or pause the charges if the person moves out of state? Hell to the no!
I know there isn't much we can do as far as JonBenet's case but, we can make a difference in future cases if we push for change. There HAS to be a loophole somewhere in this.
For example.... if they retest evidence and find DNA from JR on the ligature, maybe they can nail him with murder since the ligature is what actually killed her.
I'm sick of the Ramsey's dodging justice and being so forthright as to sue anyone who even hints at their family's involvement. If they had cooperated from the beginning we wouldn't be here now discussing this. :banghead: There needs to be a JonBenet Law. Where if a child over the age of 6 commits a crime, the DA at least has the option to press charges if he feels it's warranted. The way it was as of now, the DA no matter how corrupt, his/her hands were tied when it came to Burke.

ETA: I forgot the link! :facepalm: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/colorado-law/colorado-criminal-statute-of-limitations-laws.html

 

[BoldBear]

PositiveLight,

We all understand your outrage. I'm not one to know much about the history of WS, but I do recall that this site was started because justice wasn't being served in this case. I remember reading that somewhere, but my memory is flawed. We've all studied the outrage of the case and what the investigators went through. This had to be one of the worst days of Officer French's life. It destroyed Linda Arndt's career forever. Many good investigators quit due to stress and burn-out. Two DA's careers are forever tarnished (tarnished is too weak, but I don't have a good expletive). The friends of the Ramseys have all been dragged through the mud and will never be able to escape this nightmare. And Boulder will forever be remembered as a party town and the place where Jonbenet was murdered and the investigation was botched. Everyone who touches this case is hurt. And unfortunately, many people time and time again have felt the way you do. (I personally think SD would like to imprison or do worse to AH and AL.)

There's so much interest and outrage that the Boulder police will not talk about it anymore. They'll only do taped statements.

And it's been so bad that a former Governor of Colorado is still talking about the case to the press and making negative statements about the former DA. Do you know anywhere else where the case was so badly handled that a Governor has done this?

It's been 20 years and many people are still waiting for justice. Unfortunately, it may never come.

P.S. I really think it's too bad about Linda Arndt's career being destroyed. She wasn't a homicide detective. As I understand it, she worked more with sexual assault cases. I can see her being a really good victim advocate. She was able to bond with Patsy, but instantly jumped to the conclusion that this was a sexual assault case before any evidence was collected. That may have been from her working too many sexual assault cases. In my line of work, I see too many devices that malfunction. My mind instantly goes to the circuits going bad, getting a defective part, worrying about the wiring. My experience is to think of everything that can and has gone wrong. Then someone mentions that I should check the battery and I'm completely embarrassed. I didn't go to the basics first. I could be completely wrong about my sympathy for LA. She was over her head in this. Sometimes we get put into positions where we completely screw-up and have absolutely no way to correct it.

I will, however, say that she's a dumb-*advertiser censored* for thinking that she could handle a simple interview. This is where a reasonably smart person thinks that because they're smart, they can do something with little or no practice. The interview she did with GMA went on for hours and the public only saw a few minutes of it. Boy was she stupid. She gets emotionally attached. The interview takes her energy and the parts they play are the moments she looks crazy.

Let me know if you think I'm wrong about her. It doesn't matter that much. As I recall, she wasn't able to get any professional jobs after this.

 

[Heymom]

Without getting too far into politics, Boulder has always been a predominantly liberal college town. The people of Boulder vote for and get the kind of government that the majority wants. That's the way it was in 1996, and that's the way it is now.

 

[kanzz]

I wouldn't want them in charge of a bicycle theft. And you're right: the people of Boulder ultimately must shoulder the blame. If I had been living there, I'd have had a mob down at the DA's office with torches and pitchforks in the wake of the JMK debacle.

I'd like to have seen that on national news!

p.s. Great new signature line, SuperDave - one of my all-time favorite lines from a great Peter Finch scene in "Network".

 

[BBB167893]

PositiveLight,

We all understand your outrage. I'm not one to know much about the history of WS, but I do recall that this site was started because justice wasn't being served in this case. I remember reading that somewhere, but my memory is flawed. We've all studied the outrage of the case and what the investigators went through. This had to be one of the worst days of Officer French's life. It destroyed Linda Arndt's career forever. Many good investigators quit due to stress and burn-out. Two DA's careers are forever tarnished (tarnished is too weak, but I don't have a good expletive). The friends of the Ramseys have all been dragged through the mud and will never be able to escape this nightmare. And Boulder will forever be remembered as a party town and the place where Jonbenet was murdered and the investigation was botched. Everyone who touches this case is hurt. And unfortunately, many people time and time again have felt the way you do. (I personally think SD would like to imprison or do worse to AH and AL.)

You think correctly.

 

[BBB167893]

I'd like to have seen that on national news!

I'd have been glad to DO it, too!

p.s. Great new signature line, SuperDave - one of my all-time favorite lines from a great Peter Finch scene in "Network".

As far as I'm concerned, it should be the motto of everyone who cares about justice in this case! PL is right: there HAS to be something we can do.

 

[PositiveLight]

PositiveLight,

We all understand your outrage. I'm not one to know much about the history of WS, but I do recall that this site was started because justice wasn't being served in this case. I remember reading that somewhere, but my memory is flawed. We've all studied the outrage of the case and what the investigators went through. This had to be one of the worst days of Officer French's life. It destroyed Linda Arndt's career forever. Many good investigators quit due to stress and burn-out. Two DA's careers are forever tarnished (tarnished is too weak, but I don't have a good expletive). The friends of the Ramseys have all been dragged through the mud and will never be able to escape this nightmare. And Boulder will forever be remembered as a party town and the place where Jonbenet was murdered and the investigation was botched. Everyone who touches this case is hurt. And unfortunately, many people time and time again have felt the way you do. (I personally think SD would like to imprison or do worse to AH and AL.)

There's so much interest and outrage that the Boulder police will not talk about it anymore. They'll only do taped statements.

And it's been so bad that a former Governor of Colorado is still talking about the case to the press and making negative statements about the former DA. Do you know anywhere else where the case was so badly handled that a Governor has done this?

It's been 20 years and many people are still waiting for justice. Unfortunately, it may never come.

P.S. I really think it's too bad about Linda Arndt's career being destroyed. She wasn't a homicide detective. As I understand it, she worked more with sexual assault cases. I can see her being a really good victim advocate. She was able to bond with Patsy, but instantly jumped to the conclusion that this was a sexual assault case before any evidence was collected. That may have been from her working too many sexual assault cases. In my line of work, I see too many devices that malfunction. My mind instantly goes to the circuits going bad, getting a defective part, worrying about the wiring. My experience is to think of everything that can and has gone wrong. Then someone mentions that I should check the battery and I'm completely embarrassed. I didn't go to the basics first. I could be completely wrong about my sympathy for LA. She was over her head in this. Sometimes we get put into positions where we completely screw-up and have absolutely no way to correct it.

I will, however, say that she's a dumb-*advertiser censored* for thinking that she could handle a simple interview. This is where a reasonably smart person thinks that because they're smart, they can do something with little or no practice. The interview she did with GMA went on for hours and the public only saw a few minutes of it. Boy was she stupid. She gets emotionally attached. The interview takes her energy and the parts they play are the moments she looks crazy.

Let me know if you think I'm wrong about her. It doesn't matter that much. As I recall, she wasn't able to get any professional jobs after this.

I totally feel sorry for Linda Arndt!
She shouldered the blame for the investigation going wrong yet, they left her and French and went back to the PD to work on the case.
This case should have immediately bend handed to the FBI. The BPD doesn't have enough experience with homicides and neither did the ME.
Since it started as a kidnapping, the FBI could've still remained in charge. But I don't think the BPD wanted that to happen.
But yes I do feel so sorry for Linda and French. However I do not feel for the DA's. They made very poor judgment calls and their rep deserved to be tarnished.
It is a very sad thing to know cops who were truly seeking the truth quit their jobs due to politics not wanting to find the truth.
I don't think Linda Arndt seemed crazy in her interview. I think she came across as genuine in the interview I watched. Is it the one where she said JR was cordial?
Many say her eyes looked weird but, I have to wonder if she has a thyroid condition. My cousin has severe thyroid issues and her eyes have the "crazy" look all the time too.
So no I don't think you are wrong at all. Linda wanted justice for JonBenet. I also think her instincts were right as she observed the family and friends that morning. She might not be a homicide detective, but she was trained to pick u subtle clues and she was doing as she was trained. She had her hands full that morning and they should have left her more backup and detectives.
I also think imho of course, (please no one take offense to this!) But she seemed to be in a male dominated office. The calls she made to them for backup they may have brushed off as a over reacting female. Not saying that is what happened but, it wouldn't be the first time.
No officer there that day will ever be the same. A child's death is one of the worst for a cop.

 

[kanzz]

I totally feel sorry for Linda Arndt!
She shouldered the blame for the investigation going wrong yet, they left her and French and went back to the PD to work on the case.
This case should have immediately bend handed to the FBI. The BPD doesn't have enough experience with homicides and neither did the ME.
Since it started as a kidnapping, the FBI could've still remained in charge. But I don't think the BPD wanted that to happen.
But yes I do feel so sorry for Linda and French. However I do not feel for the DA's. They made very poor judgment calls and their rep deserved to be tarnished.
It is a very sad thing to know cops who were truly seeking the truth quit their jobs due to politics not wanting to find the truth.
I don't think Linda Arndt seemed crazy in her interview. I think she came across as genuine in the interview I watched. Is it the one where she said JR was cordial?
Many say her eyes looked weird but, I have to wonder if she has a thyroid condition. My cousin has severe thyroid issues and her eyes have the "crazy" look all the time too.
So no I don't think you are wrong at all. Linda wanted justice for JonBenet. I also think her instincts were right as she observed the family and friends that morning. She might not be a homicide detective, but she was trained to pick u subtle clues and she was doing as she was trained. She had her hands full that morning and they should have left her more backup and detectives.
I also think imho of course, (please no one take offense to this!) But she seemed to be in a male dominated office. The calls she made to them for backup they may have brushed off as a over reacting female. Not saying that is what happened but, it wouldn't be the first time.
No officer there that day will ever be the same. A child's death is one of the worst for a cop.

Nah. I just can't bring myself to have any pity for Arndt. It isn't as though she had a crowd of 100 to deal with that morning. And the last order that was given was for everyone to stay in the study (I think it was).
So, what did she do? She loses track of JR. That's just some crazy talk right there and it's when she should have called for back-up. Then, when he finally shows up, she takes it a step further and asks him to search the damn house. WTH was she even thinking? Then, when he brings JB upstairs and puts her on the floor, contaminating her; she picks her up and moves her! But no, she's not finished! She puts a blanket over her. She allows PR to lie on top of her.
Then there's the list of questions she faxed.
Nope. I don't feel sorry for her. She was inept.

ETA: Interesting thread on FFJ about Arndt:
[h=1]Linda Arndt speaks (with forked tongue)[/h]