GUILTY DC - David Messerschmitt, 30, murdered in Washington hotel room, 9 Feb 2015 #3

[jenves]

It may have been stated already as I am still catching up. But I think it's possible she pulled off her man persona (her intention to get him vulnerable to rob) until he was finger tied but when she didn't have the correct plumbing for the job and it was realized what her intentions were that is when the blood bath occurred.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm think her post incident text messages will largely reveal whether the murder was premeditated, or not.

 

[Hraefn]

Wow, that's really pathetic....that so many people are willing to continuing risking their lives by looking for a random hook-up with some complete stranger on Craigslist. I have to be honest and admit that doing this does diminish my level of sympathy for those who engage in this kind of behavior, should something go awry. If you purposely and intentionally engage is high risk behavior, IMO you are accepting that risk. DM, as a intelligent attorney should have known better. And if his wife had no idea about this secret lifestyle of his, my sympathy for him is even further reduced.....because even with condoms he was still putting himself at high risk for contracting a whole host of STDs and the passing them on to his unsuspecting wife. Sorry but disgusting all around.

I understand where you are coming from, but I see a much larger picture and my sympathy and empathy for David and his family will never falter. It is so not our place to judge!

I have really appreciated the posts here touching on the complexities of human sexuality. David, being a successful, prominent attorney at a huge international law firm was under so much pressure to represent the persona expected of him by our society. He certainly made risky choices, but those are choices he probably wouldn't have had to make if the LGBTQ community was accepted in the US (especially in professional careers). He was likely faced with the decision of losing everything he had worked his whole life for just to be himself. I see closeted people every single day in the legal world, some quite literally hiding the existence of their same-sex spouse because they feel they have to do that in order to have any progress or success in the field. I guarantee it's the same in other work environments, whether professional or not. I would bet there are an exponential number of people just like David who hide things about themselves, live a double life of sorts, in order to make their families proud, to earn a living, to achieve the stereotypical "American dream."

More than 1/3 of the LGBTQ community has attempted suicide (http://www.healthyplace.com/gender/...y-and-suicide-lgbt-suicide-–-a-serious-issue/). 1 in 5 LGBTQ citizens has reported a hate crime against them in the past 3 years, and it is estimated 75% of incidents go unreported (http://www.care2.com/causes/10-alarming-statistics-about-gay-hate-crimes.html). 40-50% of bi and gay men have experienced sexual violence (not including rape) (http://www.nclrights.org/sexual-assault-in-the-lgbt-community/).

So while we can certainly learn from David, to be cautious and responsible in our choices, to be open minded and accepting of others so they don't feel pressured to hide, we certainly have no room to condemn him. Everyone has their story, their issues, we are all going through something that puts us at risk. We all make bad decisions. David and his family paid the ultimate price and it is not our right to start dishing out blame.

David, I'm so sorry for the battles you had to face on this earth, and I'm sorry for the ways society let you down. Rest in peace, David. :candle:

Apologies for being long winded.

 

[Midge Montana]

I understand where you are coming from, but I see a much larger picture and my sympathy and empathy for David and his family will never falter. It is so not our place to judge!

I have really appreciated the posts here touching on the complexities of human sexuality. David, being a successful, prominent attorney at a huge international law firm was under so much pressure to represent the persona expected of him by our society. He certainly made risky choices, but those are choices he probably wouldn't have had to made if the LGBTQ community was accepted in the US (especially in professional careers). He was likely faced with the decision of losing everything he had worked his whole life for just to be himself. I see closeted people every single day in the legal world, some quite literally hiding the existence of their same-sex spouse because they feel they have to do that in order to have any progress or success in the field. I guarantee it's the same in other work environments, whether professional or not. I would bet there are an exponential number of people just like David who hide things about themselves, live a double life of sorts, in order to make their families proud, to earn a living, to achieve the stereotypical "American dream."

More than 1/3 of the LGBTQ community has attempted suicide (http://www.healthyplace.com/gender/...y-and-suicide-lgbt-suicide-–-a-serious-issue/). 1 in 5 LGBTQ citizens has reported a hate crime against them in the past 3 years, and it is estimated 75% of incidents go unreported (http://www.care2.com/causes/10-alarming-statistics-about-gay-hate-crimes.html). 40-50% of bi and gay men have experienced sexual violence (not including rape) (http://www.nclrights.org/sexual-assault-in-the-lgbt-community/).

So while we can certainly learn from David, to be cautious and responsible in our choices, to be open minded and accepting of others so they don't feel pressured to hide, we certainly have no room to condemn him. Everyone has their story, their issues, we are all going through something that puts us at risk. We all make bad decisions. David and his family paid the ultimate price and it is not our right to start dishing out blame.

David, I'm so sorry for the battles you had to face on this earth, and I'm sorry for the ways society let you down. Rest in peace, David. :candle:

Apologies for being long winded.

Beautifully written. The heartbreaking truth. Thank you.

 

[fred&edna]

Oh, my. That's the first time I've heard of Grindr. It seems to be an app, and I'm not downloading that onto my phone. I'll bet DM was using CL instead of Grindr because he needed to hide his lifestyle from his wife. An app like that on his phone would have been a risk of someone finding out his secret. Maybe that's the draw of CL.

He was using another (likely burner) phone to communicate with JG... which she took from the crime and pitched.

The cell phone they found in the hotel room was not of help to the investigation.

 

[Elley Mae]

I understand where you are coming from, but I see a much larger picture and my sympathy and empathy for David and his family will never falter. It is so not our place to judge!

I have really appreciated the posts here touching on the complexities of human sexuality. David, being a successful, prominent attorney at a huge international law firm was under so much pressure to represent the persona expected of him by our society. He certainly made risky choices, but those are choices he probably wouldn't have had to made if the LGBTQ community was accepted in the US (especially in professional careers). He was likely faced with the decision of losing everything he had worked his whole life for just to be himself. I see closeted people every single day in the legal world, some quite literally hiding the existence of their same-sex spouse because they feel they have to do that in order to have any progress or success in the field. I guarantee it's the same in other work environments, whether professional or not. I would bet there are an exponential number of people just like David who hide things about themselves, live a double life of sorts, in order to make their families proud, to earn a living, to achieve the stereotypical "American dream."

More than 1/3 of the LGBTQ community has attempted suicide (http://www.healthyplace.com/gender/...y-and-suicide-lgbt-suicide-–-a-serious-issue/). 1 in 5 LGBTQ citizens has reported a hate crime against them in the past 3 years, and it is estimated 75% of incidents go unreported (http://www.care2.com/causes/10-alarming-statistics-about-gay-hate-crimes.html). 40-50% of bi and gay men have experienced sexual violence (not including rape) (http://www.nclrights.org/sexual-assault-in-the-lgbt-community/).

So while we can certainly learn from David, to be cautious and responsible in our choices, to be open minded and accepting of others so they don't feel pressured to hide, we certainly have no room to condemn him. Everyone has their story, their issues, we are all going through something that puts us at risk. We all make bad decisions. David and his family paid the ultimate price and it is not our right to start dishing out blame.

David, I'm so sorry for the battles you had to face on this earth, and I'm sorry for the ways society let you down. Rest in peace, David. :candle:

Apologies for being long winded.

Thank You for this. As I agree with every thing, I just wish he had not married, as a woman it would absolutely devastate me is this would happen to me, for me it's just the worst. jmo idk.

 

[panthera]

I don't think I would want a trial...but that is just me. Depending upon the sentence, I would prefer a plea deal. A trial would be a year or more away and publicize all of David's activities, maybe some we are not aware of. It would be in the news for weeks.

Jmo

Agree. It is his family, more so than his wife, that I feel should be spared the details. It is enough grief for them that their son and brother was murdered; they do not need the additional burden of the specifics of his secret life and the world does not need to know either.

MOO

 

[time]

I understand where you are coming from, but I see a much larger picture and my sympathy and empathy for David and his family will never falter. It is so not our place to judge!

I have really appreciated the posts here touching on the complexities of human sexuality. David, being a successful, prominent attorney at a huge international law firm was under so much pressure to represent the persona expected of him by our society. He certainly made risky choices, but those are choices he probably wouldn't have had to make if the LGBTQ community was accepted in the US (especially in professional careers). He was likely faced with the decision of losing everything he had worked his whole life for just to be himself. I see closeted people every single day in the legal world, some quite literally hiding the existence of their same-sex spouse because they feel they have to do that in order to have any progress or success in the field. I guarantee it's the same in other work environments, whether professional or not. I would bet there are an exponential number of people just like David who hide things about themselves, live a double life of sorts, in order to make their families proud, to earn a living, to achieve the stereotypical "American dream."

More than 1/3 of the LGBTQ community has attempted suicide (http://www.healthyplace.com/gender/...y-and-suicide-lgbt-suicide-–-a-serious-issue/). 1 in 5 LGBTQ citizens has reported a hate crime against them in the past 3 years, and it is estimated 75% of incidents go unreported (http://www.care2.com/causes/10-alarming-statistics-about-gay-hate-crimes.html). 40-50% of bi and gay men have experienced sexual violence (not including rape) (http://www.nclrights.org/sexual-assault-in-the-lgbt-community/).

So while we can certainly learn from David, to be cautious and responsible in our choices, to be open minded and accepting of others so they don't feel pressured to hide, we certainly have no room to condemn him. Everyone has their story, their issues, we are all going through something that puts us at risk. We all make bad decisions. David and his family paid the ultimate price and it is not our right to start dishing out blame.

David, I'm so sorry for the battles you had to face on this earth, and I'm sorry for the ways society let you down. Rest in peace, David. :candle:

Apologies for being long winded.

I agree with much of what you say, but I doubt his wife knew and he was putting himself and her at risk. I have also known mixed couples where one bi and the other hetero or one is gay/lesbian and the other bi. They would tell you it is not ok to deceive and go behind their partner's back nor do they really have a compulsion to do so. If he was gay and married to a straight woman, then he was doing both of them a disservice and did not need to have a hetero looking marriage to be successful- he could have just been single. Having sex with most prostitutes (if that was the case here) or an unknown hookup is extremely risky in terms of STD's to say the least and it is unfair to subject your unknowing partner to this.

 

[MsFacetious]

In stabbings the perp often cuts themselves.
The knife gets bloody and slippery.
The perp slips down onto the blade when stabbing that forcefully.
This explains why her blood was found at the hotel. :twocents:

I don't think we know he was putting his wife at risk, we don't have enough information to say that.
There are men in marriages with women who do not have sex with them.
It is possible they did have an open marriage... where he had sex with men and not her.

It is possible that she fell in love with him, knew he wasn't straight and accepted that.
I know of couples that have this exact arrangement. Not for me, but whatever works for them.

There are all sorts of unconventional relationships out there that people would find interesting.
If they had one of these then he would not be putting her at risk because she wouldn't be having sex with him.

I don't think we know enough to know for sure what their marriage was like. :twocents:

 

[sarabean]

I understand where you are coming from, but I see a much larger picture and my sympathy and empathy for David and his family will never falter. It is so not our place to judge!

I have really appreciated the posts here touching on the complexities of human sexuality. David, being a successful, prominent attorney at a huge international law firm was under so much pressure to represent the persona expected of him by our society. He certainly made risky choices, but those are choices he probably wouldn't have had to make if the LGBTQ community was accepted in the US (especially in professional careers). He was likely faced with the decision of losing everything he had worked his whole life for just to be himself. I see closeted people every single day in the legal world, some quite literally hiding the existence of their same-sex spouse because they feel they have to do that in order to have any progress or success in the field. I guarantee it's the same in other work environments, whether professional or not. I would bet there are an exponential number of people just like David who hide things about themselves, live a double life of sorts, in order to make their families proud, to earn a living, to achieve the stereotypical "American dream."

More than 1/3 of the LGBTQ community has attempted suicide (http://www.healthyplace.com/gender/...y-and-suicide-lgbt-suicide-–-a-serious-issue/). 1 in 5 LGBTQ citizens has reported a hate crime against them in the past 3 years, and it is estimated 75% of incidents go unreported (http://www.care2.com/causes/10-alarming-statistics-about-gay-hate-crimes.html). 40-50% of bi and gay men have experienced sexual violence (not including rape) (http://www.nclrights.org/sexual-assault-in-the-lgbt-community/).

So while we can certainly learn from David, to be cautious and responsible in our choices, to be open minded and accepting of others so they don't feel pressured to hide, we certainly have no room to condemn him. Everyone has their story, their issues, we are all going through something that puts us at risk. We all make bad decisions. David and his family paid the ultimate price and it is not our right to start dishing out blame.

David, I'm so sorry for the battles you had to face on this earth, and I'm sorry for the ways society let you down. Rest in peace, David. :candle:

Apologies for being long winded.

Thank you button was not enough! Thank you... It touched me.

 

[cluciano63]

I hope his wife knew about his lifestyle when they married. I hope he had at least confessed to her. People do marry for all kinds of reasons, so it is possible. But if not, this is a horrible way for her to find out. She would feel she did not know him at all, Imo.

But even if she did, his parents probably did not, Imo, and must be shocked as well as grieving. I kind of hooe an agreeable plea deal is possible.

 

[time]

I hope his wife knew about his lifestyle when they married. I hope he had at least confessed to her. People do marry for all kinds of reasons, so it is possible. But if not, this is a horrible way for her to find out. She would feel she did not know him at all, Imo.

But even if she did, his parents probably did not, Imo, and must be shocked as well as grieving. I kind of hooe an agreeable plea deal is possible.

It's possible she knew, but most people I have known who have/have had an open relationship don't really go for prostitutes. IDK. I'm not judging him for his preferences at all, that's not the point.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Even though I am totally heterosexual, and don't believe in having sex outside of marriage, I also know it is not my place to judge his lifestyle nor the choices he made.

I cant help but have sympathy for his wife though if she did not know he was bi-sexual or gay. If she didn't know this beforehand it would all be hard for her to digest compounded by having to deal with the reality that someone ruthlessly murdered him. From what I have seen of his wife she seems to deeply love her husband.

The only part that matters to me is he was brutally murdered and robbery was the motive. Imo, it is one of the wickedest motive there can be because it is all to do with greed done by a callous, cold, and totally self centered person.

This was such a senseless crime and shouldn't have ever happened. It was so calculating as she sat this all up in order to deceive him. What did she expect him to do when she was going to rob him? I think she came there to rob but she knew she had to murder him first to keep him silent so no one would know what she had done and she would have control over him for the robbery with him dead. Thank goodness for cameras these days. She wasn't nearly as smart as she must have thought she was. Looking directly into the camera is pretty darned stupid.

Wasn't he stabbed in the back? It wouldn't surprise me if she caught him off guard and stabbed him when he didn't see it coming and then robbed him. I still think she meant to kill him all along and that is why she brought the deadly weapon with her.

 

[Momoffourboys]

It's possible she knew, but most people I have known who have/have had an open relationship don't really go for prostitutes. IDK. I'm not judging him for his preferences at all, that's not the point.

We don't know if he was soliciting her/him as a prostitute. He could have just been looking for a hook up. IMO

 

[time]

We don't know if he was soliciting her/him as a prostitute. He could have just been looking for a hook up. IMO

Yeah, I should have added hookups.

 

[MsFacetious]

Some people who agree to an open relationship are more comfortable with hook ups.
If a couple isn't intimate that isn't as likely to bother the spouse. Sex with someone else isn't considered "cheating."
However if they are deeply in love, the "cheating" would come from developing feelings for another person.

What would bother you more?
Your husband sleeping with someone he had no feelings for, or sleeping with someone he was falling in love with?
Some people prefer the casual encounters so that they don't worry about emotional attachment.
It's considered a bit of a "safety net" to prevent things from going too far. Not seeing the same person too many times.

Again, it's just a different lifestyle... and I have no idea if this couple had that lifestyle.
If she married him, thought he was straight and they had an active sex life...
Then I feel horribly sorry for her to have to deal with THAT on top of his murder. :twocents:

 

[cluciano63]

Yes, if she did not know, and has to worry about STD's etc. as well as grief...that makes dealing with his murder so much worse Imo.

 

[MsFacetious]

For that reason I hope that she was aware and they had a marriage that didn't include sex. :twocents:
It will give her one less thing to worry about in the months ahead.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yeah …. I guess that David partook of potentially risky and dangerous behaviour (while perhaps trying to minimise that risk by indulging his behaviours at better hotels in the area, rather than in parks and public toilets, and using condoms and enemas perhaps for health reasons).

But didn’t they used to say that, years ago, about women who dressed provocatively? Risky and dangerous? And still do say it in some countries, if a woman shows some skin.

It doesn’t make me feel less empathy for him, as a murder victim.

 

[ruby0728]

JMO...the decedent was the only one who knew what he was doing.