DD pounding on the door/broken glass/Shawn "deer in headlights"

Discussion in 'Hailey Dunn' started by Kimster, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. Kimster

    Kimster Former Member

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    Remember, no names of minors here or suggesting any minors are involved in Hailey going missing. :tyou:
     
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  3. dog.gone.cute

    dog.gone.cute Kyron Horman - Missing Since 6-4-10

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    The Window ...

    snipped from Billie's Dunn Presser 1-31-11, Big Country Home Page:

    " ... Shawn said that he didn’t get home until around or a little after 3:00. Hailey left just about 15 minutes after he got there. DD told me that he and a friend came home Monday sometime between 4:00 and 5:00. The door was locked. He knocked for several minutes before reaching in through - the glass had been broken out - Hailey broke it with a basketball. He reached in through there and unlocked the door. When DD and his friend walked into the house Shawn was coming from my bedroom where he had been watching TV. They all said ‘hi, what’s up’ to teach other and then DD and… Shawn returned to my bedroom and DD and his friend went to DD’s room. Shawn remained home until he left to go pick me up from work. ..."

    In her statement quoted above, Billie says that Hailey broke the window.

    But ... I went back and checked the Affidavit to see what it said about the "window."

    The Affidavit does NOT say whether or not the window is broken:

    "... DD made entry through a window and got into the residence. ..."

    I would think when LE wrote their Reports and Affidavit, that they would have noted "broken" window, especially a broken window of a house where a child is missing. Or maybe it was a detail that they overlooked ?

    DD made entry through the house through a window:

    But was this window broken BEFORE he made entry -- or -- did DD break it ?

    If DD broke it, then BD's statement that Hailey broke the window with a basketball -- does not fly !:waitasec:
     
  4. noneareworthy

    noneareworthy New Member

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    I'm still intrigued with the idea that SA locked DD OUT.
     
  5. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    Search Warrant Affidavit

    SA Daniel A. COTTNER and SA Janet THOMAS interviewed Clint DUNN, l—5-2011, and he stated D, DUNN had told him he returned home at approximately 4:00pm on Monday afternoon. 12-27-2010. and pounded on the door for about 5 minutes and nobody would let him in.

    D. DUNN made entry through a window and got into the residence. SA Janet THOMAS later interviewed Billie DUNN who confirmed that D. had indeed pounded on the door and nobody would let him in and he then made entry into the residence and observed Shawn ADKINS standing in the hallway with a deer in the headlights look.
     
  6. gngr~snap

    gngr~snap Verified Professional Pediatric Nurse

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    IMO- SA knew the jig was up. He locked the home up. If LE showed up without a search warrant, he could deny entry. BUT if the door is open... as DD walked in it is my understanding LE can head on in.
    SA locked the doors cause he wuz skeered.

    I know a neighbor of mine was reported to LE for a loud party after 11:00pm. The smokers were on the front porch. Door was unlocked as people moved in and out. They just follwed the last party goer right on in...
    They were quickly asked to leave and did so after the said turn it down... but they were really scanning the room looking for a reason to ask more questions. They even made certain people go move their cars so they all faced the same direction. ODD...
    DD STATED HE RANG THE BELL?? I forget. SA didn't answer cause I bet he was hiding.
    MOO

    ETA: Exigent circumstance in United States law
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    An exigent circumstance, in the American law of criminal procedure, allows law enforcement to enter a structure without a warrant, or if they have a "knock and announce" warrant, without knocking and waiting for refusal under certain circumstances. It must be a situation where people are in imminent danger(Hailey), evidence faces imminent destruction(which could well have been going on), or a suspect will escape.
    In the criminal procedure context, exigent circumstance means:
    An emergency situation requiring swift action to prevent imminent danger to life or serious damage to property, or to forestall the imminent escape of a suspect, or destruction of evidence. There is no ready litmus test for determining whether such circumstances exist, and in each case the extraordinary situation must be measured by the facts known by officials.[1]
    Those circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry (or other relevant prompt action) was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officers or other persons, the destruction of relevant evidence, the escape of a suspect, or some other consequence improperly frustrating legitimate law enforcement efforts.[2]
    Exigent circumstances may make a warrantless search constitutional if probable cause exists. The existence of exigent circumstances is a mixed question of law and fact.[3] There is no absolute test for determining if exigent circumstances exist, but general factors have been identified. These include: clear evidence of probable cause; the seriousness of the offense and likelihood of destruction of evidence; limitations on the search to minimize the intrusion only to preventing destruction of evidence; and clear indications of exigency.
    Exigency may be determined by: degree of urgency involved; amount of time needed to get a warrant; whether evidence is about to be removed or destroyed; danger at the site; knowledge of the suspect that police are on his or her trail; and/or ready destructibility of the evidence.[4] In determining the time necessary to obtain a warrant, a telephonic warrant should be considered. As electronic data may be altered or eradicated in seconds, in a factually compelling case the doctrine of exigent circumstances will support a warrantless seizure.
    Even in exigent circumstances, while a warrantless seizure may be permitted, a subsequent warrant to search may still be necessary.[5]


    Red added by me.
     
  7. concernedmother

    concernedmother Active Member

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    My kids all had keys when they were at home and actually they all still have one.
     
  8. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I think these kids didn't cuz the house wasn't usually locked. That is not all that unusual in a small town.

    But this locked door situation would mean that SA locked up AFTER Hailey left for her sleepover, which was 45 minutes earlier. ODD imo
     
  9. ThoughtFox

    ThoughtFox Expecting the Unexpected

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    Someone asked the other day why DD might have been in a hurry to get into the house.

    I think that has a simple answer - the door wasn't usually locked. Or if it was, the kids had reached in through the broken window before.

    Also, it could even be simpler, he or his friend needed to go to the bathroom so they were in a hurry.

    My kids don't have their own keys to our house because they are notorious for losing things. Plus we don't want to accidentally give other kids access through a key that's left behind or something. However, my son knows how to break in through a window - we live in an old house too.

    I'm intrigued by the fact that SA might have been in Hailey's bedroom, doing God knows what. The locked door is a sign or guilt, but I honestly doubt he expected to get caught. He thinks he is too smart for that. He knew he had a long time, at least 24 hours, before anyone caught on that Hailey was actually missing. JMO
     
  10. SubtleGrace

    SubtleGrace Zaylee Rose born 1/2/11. In loving memory of Zahr

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    We know from the earlier 911 calls that BJ doesn't lock her doors or windows.

    I think its important to note that BJ confirmed the "deer in the headlights" look reported in the affidavit, not CD. This means that DD told her this, and she confirmed with LE that he did.

    So her press conference bs about "Hi, how you doing?" is just that, total bs.
     
  11. Tugela

    Tugela New Member

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    You mean we know from the 911 calls that BD didnt usually lock her doors a year ago. What she was doing now we don't know. The door may well have been locked routinely.
     
  12. Tugela

    Tugela New Member

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    The whole door thing makes me suspicious.

    The motive language used makes me think that the incident has been elaborated subsequent to the event, and might not accurately reflect what happened.

    Then there is this thing about the locked door. Even if it was not usually locked, who leaves a house empty without locking it? Even in a small town (especially in a small town, where kids have a lot of time on their hands). So why wouldn't DD have had a key, or known where to find one?

    And if he didn't have a key, and the door was locked, surely he would have noticed his mother's vehicle parked outside? And if that was the case, why break in (or gained entry, depending on how you want the view the broken window thing). What about trying the back door, or where all the doors locked? He only mentions pounding on "the" door, there has to be more than one door to the house. In HDs story DD reached in through a window that was broken (by HD with a basketball some time earlier) and opened the door.

    Also, who exactly was with him? BD says it was it was a friend, but in other posts (IIRC burried deep in the thousands of posts in the never ending thread) it was suggested that CD was consulted before he entered. So what exactly happened?

    I don't believe that SA was interupted doing a "clean up" either. He couldn't have been there all that long when DD showed up, plus, he would have left anything behind alone in the house with DD and friend when he went to pick up HD. If there was a clean up going on, there would have been unexplained "stuff" lying around both when DD was there and when BD got back home. If that were the case he would have been freaking out and someone surely would have noticed something was up. But apparently they didn't. So I'm think no cleanup whatever else might have happened.
     
  13. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Lots of people leave their doors unlocked, especially if there is a broken window right next to the door knob. And I would imagine he tried both doors
    even though he said 'pounding on the door.' If he said pounding on the 'doors' it would sound strange because he only pounded on one at a time. kwim?

    And some have wondered if seeing the car there made DD even more anxious to break in after his knocks went unanswered. Perhaps he knew about his sisters fear of SA, and was concerned that she was inside with him.
    So when nobody answered he reached through the broken glass to enter.

    I think he could very well been doing a 'clean up' when DD arrived. He may have had up to an hour to an hour and a half, that's plenty of time imo. Especially if there was no bloody crime scene. She may have just been carried out alive and drugged, no muss/no fuss.
    And he didnt have to leave anything behind when he left to pick up Billie. He could have taken it all and dumped it before he picked her up.

    I think he was actually working on putting together Haileys sleepover bag when DD arrived. I think SA was trying to gather her hoodie and money and other stuff so it would appear she left for the sleepover. Then he could dump it somewhere to make it seem like an abduction.
     
  14. Zephyr

    Zephyr Member

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    Someone posted recently about the window. Said that if the window had already been broken by Hailey while playing ball (as BD says in the PC), then DD would not have needed to knock on the door for several minutes. He could have simply reached through the glass and let himself in.

    So I believe that DD had to break the window to get in. JMO
     
  15. Caligram

    Caligram New Member

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    BBM ~ What proof is there that BD was not already aware that HD "was not in her house". SA had plenty of time to stage a scene. SA and BD have admittedly read about actual crimes. Surely they made a point to learn the mehods of detection and ways of leaving no evidence behind.

    When DD arrived the house was locked. BD should have been at work, and SA usually drove BD's car. Why would DD pound on the door?? Probably because when he found the door locked he thought HD might be trapped inside with SA. Mom was supposed to be at work. HD was afraid of SA. Thus the urgency, the frantic pounding. If a back door was an alternative entry point, DD would have already checked that option. Only BD felt it necessary to embelish her written Press Report by adding that DD was with a friend, and they entered the house and greeted SA in a friendly manner. It seems the house was not a violent crime scene with telltale blood or odors. I believe that HD was unconscious when removed from that house. SA was probably gathering up some of HD's clothes and favorite things which a teen might reasonably take on a sleepover.clothing. SA could have thought the police were pounding on the door, and he was trying to determine a way out through an alibi or an exit. Whatever he was up to, he hadn't expected "company", thus the house was locked up.
     
  16. Tugela

    Tugela New Member

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    I was reading the affidavit again tonight, and it doesn't actually say that DD made the "deer in the headlights" comment, but that BD said it. The only part about what DD said that was "confirmed" by BD was the pounding on the door and making entry. The rest was attributed to BD only and presumably was her commentary, not DDs. We don't know what, if anything, DD told LE about seeing SA there.
     
  17. Tugela

    Tugela New Member

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    I think the "pounding on the door" is just a figure of speech and what they really mean is that he knocked on the door. Can't read too much into that because people use words differently.

    And SA wouldn't have been there for an hour and a half since he was apparently still at his mother's house at 2:40. There was no cleanup because if there was, they would have found evidence for it in the search. Also, if he was gathering stuff to make it look like she overnighted, it presumably wouldn't be much and could be done in a few minutes. In any case, what would be the point of doing that since it would have soon been obvious that she hadn't made arrangements?

    I think what more likely happened is that DD came home around the back and didn't see the car because it was parked up front, found the door locked, knocked on it a couple of times and then opened it through the broken window because he thought no one was there. Looking back he might have thought it was five minutes but actually was much less that. SA was watching TV up front in the living room, heard something going on at the back, and was in the process of going to investigate when he encountered DD in the corridor.
     
  18. Pondering Mind

    Pondering Mind here a ponder, there a ponder...everywhere a ponde

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    bbm~

    Exactly..which brings me full circle back to what I kept questioning after the affidavits were released. How in the world was BD able to confirm what happened if she wasn't there?..The only other answer that even makes a little bit of sense is that she was confirming what DD had told her. (same as with Clint, except that it was worded differently from what I've been told anyway)

    So the way I see it is ..either BD was there (don't worry friends :crazy:... not going there again) OR DD told her this which she then relayed to LE..In either case I feel sure LE also spoke with DD and since he's a minor (and whatever he said COULD be damning to SA) they left what he said directly to them out of the affidavits since they had all they needed to get the warrants..JMO
     
  19. Pondering Mind

    Pondering Mind here a ponder, there a ponder...everywhere a ponde

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    bbm~

    True..but since it states "pounding on the door" why would we assume that someone *meant* knocked on the door? Just curious as to why we should try and change what was said..when MAYBE, just maybe they meant to say "pounding on the door" because that's what it was...
    Not trying to be snarky, honestly..I'm just always curious when I start seeing peeps say 'they meant to say this'..or 'should have said that' if ykwim?
     
  20. crimejunkie

    crimejunkie New Member

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    BBM~How do we know that there was no clean up? We don't know what they found in the search of the home and not finding any evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen, imo. If HD went missing on Sunday or even Monday, since it wasn't reported until Tuesday, the house wouldn't necessarily still smell like chemicals (IF they were used for a clean up) and any materials used could have been disposed of outside of the house by that time. SA and BD traveled to Synder for work and also to Big Springs during that time frame. Any potential clean up materials could have been thrown in any dumpster along the way on Monday or Tuesday and would be nearly impossible to locate.

    ETA: Imo....I don't think the lack of evidence (IF there is a lack of evidence--we don't know at this point what LE has) proves that a clean up didn't take place.
     
  21. crimejunkie

    crimejunkie New Member

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    ITA and have been wondering this myself for days (well--since BD's presser). Why would you bother to pound on a door for several minutes, if you just had to reach in an unlock the door? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

    Another thing that bothers me (as noted up-thread) is that if HD left at 3:30 and SD was watching t.v., why were the doors locked by 4:30 when DD came home? SD would have to get up from watching t.v. after HD left and lock the doors. We know BD said in Feb. that she doesn't usually lock the doors and redcat mentioned that it's common in that area NOT to lock your doors, as it's a small town with very little crime. It was day-time which many people consider a "safe" time of the day (not me---I always keep mine locked after reading here too much, lol!) and don't always make a special trip to lock the doors, especially if you have kids coming in and out. IMO, the doors were locked for a reason and that is SA was doing *something* that he did not want anyone walking in on unannounced. Certain things in this category (that one might want privacy for :) ) could be accomplished by simply closing the bedroom door, iykwim. But, SA went one step further than that. Imo, it wasn't something he could just do in the bedroom or bathroom, but may have involved other parts of the house or perhaps it was something that would be noisy and therefore not hide-able just by closing a bedroom door? I don't know what it was--but these two points (the door knocking with supposed easy access with a hand through a window and door locking) really bother me and don't add up, imo.
     

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