Beyond Belief
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Alot of folks in the US got the small pox vacine in the leg.
Identified! DE - Bear, WhtFem 16-25, UP7097, pregnant, in laundry bag, Mar'67 - NamUs removed
- Thread starter CarlK90245
- Start date
Yes I submitted Glenda Tedball to the Namus contact for this JD.
Tedball was killed by her mother in a botched abortion attempt. The mother for many years, said her daughter was missing, so the actual "last seen" date on Tedball's Doe Network page may very well be incorrect. The poor girl's body was never found. (See post#8 on this thread for the story.)
Glenda:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/553dfon.html
Jane Doe: WARNING MORGUE PHOTOS
https://identifyus.org/cases/7097
Tedball was killed by her mother in a botched abortion attempt. The mother for many years, said her daughter was missing, so the actual "last seen" date on Tedball's Doe Network page may very well be incorrect. The poor girl's body was never found. (See post#8 on this thread for the story.)
Glenda:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/553dfon.html
Jane Doe: WARNING MORGUE PHOTOS
https://identifyus.org/cases/7097
pjclover
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The area where the Doe was found would have been a rather rural area in the 1960s - mostly farmland. It was still that way when I grew up in the area in the early 1980s.
Even today, although it's been built up with neighborhoods and shopping centers, it's still a bucolic suburban setting. Of note is that Rt. 896 is in close proximity to several major roads. There is an exit off of I-95 that will put a person directly on Rt. 896 about 5 miles away from where the Doe was found. It runs through rural Chester County PA and enters Delaware in Newark, where the University of Delaware's main campus is. From there it continues through the Bear/Glasgow area and then heads further south over the canal and meets up with Rt. 301 - which could take a person all the way down through coastal Virginia.
The Doe was also found not far from Rts. 13 and 40, which runs down the entire length of the state and into North Carolina where it intersects with dozens of roads along the way. An interesting note is that a stretch of Rt. 13 between Wilmington, DE and the Bear area was and still is infamous for prostitution. It's dotted with seedy motels that rent hourly or monthly. Not insinuating that our Doe was a prostitute, but it's worth considering that she met someone who was willing to perform an abortion at one of these non-descript motels where no one asked questions. I can see a large laundry bag being available at these types of places as well - housekeepers would use them to cart off linens.
My initial thought is that the area that she was found, plus her age and the dates she was discovered make it unlikely that she's Glenda Tedball. My gut is telling me that she's not a local girl, only because the population at the time was small enough for someone to recognize this girl or report her missing. This part of Delaware shares close borders with Pennsylvania and Maryland, and I wouldn't be surprised if she was from that area.
Even today, although it's been built up with neighborhoods and shopping centers, it's still a bucolic suburban setting. Of note is that Rt. 896 is in close proximity to several major roads. There is an exit off of I-95 that will put a person directly on Rt. 896 about 5 miles away from where the Doe was found. It runs through rural Chester County PA and enters Delaware in Newark, where the University of Delaware's main campus is. From there it continues through the Bear/Glasgow area and then heads further south over the canal and meets up with Rt. 301 - which could take a person all the way down through coastal Virginia.
The Doe was also found not far from Rts. 13 and 40, which runs down the entire length of the state and into North Carolina where it intersects with dozens of roads along the way. An interesting note is that a stretch of Rt. 13 between Wilmington, DE and the Bear area was and still is infamous for prostitution. It's dotted with seedy motels that rent hourly or monthly. Not insinuating that our Doe was a prostitute, but it's worth considering that she met someone who was willing to perform an abortion at one of these non-descript motels where no one asked questions. I can see a large laundry bag being available at these types of places as well - housekeepers would use them to cart off linens.
My initial thought is that the area that she was found, plus her age and the dates she was discovered make it unlikely that she's Glenda Tedball. My gut is telling me that she's not a local girl, only because the population at the time was small enough for someone to recognize this girl or report her missing. This part of Delaware shares close borders with Pennsylvania and Maryland, and I wouldn't be surprised if she was from that area.
CarlK, you are right Hal Brown seems like a very nice man. He got back to me today and apologized about being "late"! Wish everyone was as thoughtful as him!
Here's what he had to say guys:
Sorry for the delay in response; I was away for a couple days.
Thank you for bringing the case of Glenda Tedball to my attention. What a terrible, horrific crime! I greatly appreciate you sending the doenetwork link and newspaper article.
Yes, I most certainly agree with you; although the dates are off a bit, there could be explanations for the discrepancy and this most defiantly warrants a closer look. The location that our victim was found is just minutes off interstate I-95, a major route North-South. It is unlikely that the victim was from Delaware, as this is a small state (with a smaller population in 1967), making it rather inconceivable that such a crime could occur and no one in Delaware knew the victim at the time. The Delaware police conducted an extensive investigation over several years, comparing dozens of missing persons reports from around the US; all leads proved negative.
Frankly, I dont think there was any thought given to an international connection. Yet, many Canadians were quite familiar with the route from Canada to this area; Elkton, Maryland is a town right next to where our victim was found just minutes away and it was the marrying capital of the east coast. There was no blood test or wait period required for marriages, thus a popular destination.
I suppose if one wanted to dump a body and could get across the border (which in 1967 was extremely easy), then theorizing that the victim died in Canada and was dumped 10 hours away in Delaware makes perfect sense. Thank you so much for developing this theory! Even if it is not Glenda, it might be another Canadian victim
One significant discrepancy in the cases, is that our abortion was by introduction of soap/chemical methodology; Glenda was by means of a tragic instrument (coat hanger).
Regarding vaccination marks, are you saying that girls in Canada all had the vaccinations on their thighs, whereas in the US they were mostly on the shoulder?
It appears I will need to contact the Ontario Provincial Police (per the number of the Doenetwork file).
If you have any other thoughts on these cases, please let me know. And again, my thanks for contacting me,
Incidentally, I am wondering how accurate the image of Glenda is and what year it was taken. Sometimes Ive seen the dimensions messed up with web postings. Just for the heck of it, I narrowed her face a bit and there is a striking resemblance. See below
I did not post the picture here, it's very large, it's the CP picture of Glenda made just slightly longer, (like she'd lost some baby fat) and he put her up against the morgue photo and it did look even more like her.
In answering his question about the vaccinations, I told him what I had found on the internet. That was Canadian PDF's saying the small pox vaccine should be given in the thigh, and US PDF's saying it should be given in the shoulder area of the arm.
Now, that doesn't mean you couldn't ask to have it put elsewhere in either case, but if you didn't ask, it's my understanding, that's where you got it. That's where mine was done in CA, shoulder, that was the standard.
I found it interesting that he still wants to look at Glenda as a match even though the abortion looks like it was done differently. I wonder why? Does he think they maybe tried two methods? Anyway, I've asked him if and when he does rule her in/out to let me know.
Here's what he had to say guys:
Sorry for the delay in response; I was away for a couple days.
Thank you for bringing the case of Glenda Tedball to my attention. What a terrible, horrific crime! I greatly appreciate you sending the doenetwork link and newspaper article.
Yes, I most certainly agree with you; although the dates are off a bit, there could be explanations for the discrepancy and this most defiantly warrants a closer look. The location that our victim was found is just minutes off interstate I-95, a major route North-South. It is unlikely that the victim was from Delaware, as this is a small state (with a smaller population in 1967), making it rather inconceivable that such a crime could occur and no one in Delaware knew the victim at the time. The Delaware police conducted an extensive investigation over several years, comparing dozens of missing persons reports from around the US; all leads proved negative.
Frankly, I dont think there was any thought given to an international connection. Yet, many Canadians were quite familiar with the route from Canada to this area; Elkton, Maryland is a town right next to where our victim was found just minutes away and it was the marrying capital of the east coast. There was no blood test or wait period required for marriages, thus a popular destination.
I suppose if one wanted to dump a body and could get across the border (which in 1967 was extremely easy), then theorizing that the victim died in Canada and was dumped 10 hours away in Delaware makes perfect sense. Thank you so much for developing this theory! Even if it is not Glenda, it might be another Canadian victim
One significant discrepancy in the cases, is that our abortion was by introduction of soap/chemical methodology; Glenda was by means of a tragic instrument (coat hanger).
Regarding vaccination marks, are you saying that girls in Canada all had the vaccinations on their thighs, whereas in the US they were mostly on the shoulder?
It appears I will need to contact the Ontario Provincial Police (per the number of the Doenetwork file).
If you have any other thoughts on these cases, please let me know. And again, my thanks for contacting me,
Incidentally, I am wondering how accurate the image of Glenda is and what year it was taken. Sometimes Ive seen the dimensions messed up with web postings. Just for the heck of it, I narrowed her face a bit and there is a striking resemblance. See below
I did not post the picture here, it's very large, it's the CP picture of Glenda made just slightly longer, (like she'd lost some baby fat) and he put her up against the morgue photo and it did look even more like her.
In answering his question about the vaccinations, I told him what I had found on the internet. That was Canadian PDF's saying the small pox vaccine should be given in the thigh, and US PDF's saying it should be given in the shoulder area of the arm.
Now, that doesn't mean you couldn't ask to have it put elsewhere in either case, but if you didn't ask, it's my understanding, that's where you got it. That's where mine was done in CA, shoulder, that was the standard.
I found it interesting that he still wants to look at Glenda as a match even though the abortion looks like it was done differently. I wonder why? Does he think they maybe tried two methods? Anyway, I've asked him if and when he does rule her in/out to let me know.
pjclover
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Good info from Mr. Brown, Billylee.
I hadn't even thought of the connection of Elkton, MD being so well known for quickie weddings. It still has that reputation today.
A couple possible scenarios - woman finds she's pregnant, intends to run off with her beau to be married in Elkton and then something changes. Maybe one of them (or both) gets cold feet and they decide to induce an abortion. The method involved seems rudimentary, but was a common practice before abortion was made legal. It isn't something that someone would need to be trained to do - it could be done at home (see: Revolutionary Road) but often had tragic results.
If my scenario is correct, this Doe may never have been reported missing. Perhaps her parents may have thought she'd just run away with her lover and would come back home when she was ready. Her parents may have passed thinking she'd simply eloped.
I hadn't even thought of the connection of Elkton, MD being so well known for quickie weddings. It still has that reputation today.
A couple possible scenarios - woman finds she's pregnant, intends to run off with her beau to be married in Elkton and then something changes. Maybe one of them (or both) gets cold feet and they decide to induce an abortion. The method involved seems rudimentary, but was a common practice before abortion was made legal. It isn't something that someone would need to be trained to do - it could be done at home (see: Revolutionary Road) but often had tragic results.
If my scenario is correct, this Doe may never have been reported missing. Perhaps her parents may have thought she'd just run away with her lover and would come back home when she was ready. Her parents may have passed thinking she'd simply eloped.
Two methods, chemical and mechanical, were sometimes used to induce abortion.
(Warning: graphic details. This is from the same pro-life site, but keep in mind this was evidence admitted in court at the practitioner's trial. The description of the methods begins halfway down the page in the paragraph that begins, "The doctor who performed the autopsy said...")
http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/deaths/bl56lsanchez.htm
I'm glad Hal Brown is going to look into the Glenda Tedball potential match. I had been thinking that Jane Doe and her significant other parted ways before she was even showing and he might not have known she was pregnant (many women are not showing by 3 months), but with the new information about the popularity of the area for weddings I'm wondering if pjclover's theory is more likely.
(Warning: graphic details. This is from the same pro-life site, but keep in mind this was evidence admitted in court at the practitioner's trial. The description of the methods begins halfway down the page in the paragraph that begins, "The doctor who performed the autopsy said...")
http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/deaths/bl56lsanchez.htm
I'm glad Hal Brown is going to look into the Glenda Tedball potential match. I had been thinking that Jane Doe and her significant other parted ways before she was even showing and he might not have known she was pregnant (many women are not showing by 3 months), but with the new information about the popularity of the area for weddings I'm wondering if pjclover's theory is more likely.
reasypeasy
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Analysis of fetal DNA, Gratton's DNA and the Jane Doe's DNA could let a DNA lab calculate a level of probability that Gratton was the child's father. If her autopsy report shows the abortion was incomplete, and if Gratton is still alive and can be persuaded to give DNA (sounds possible, he can't be punished again for the crime and might jump at the chance to do something to ease his conscience a little) then it might be worth exhuming her.
:blushing: I STAND CORRECTED. I went back to the Canadian document ( http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/02vol28/28sup/acs1.html )I was reading and it was referring to using the thigh as a location for a different vaccine VIG when there were already adverse effects. (Show's I'm no doctor!)
It appears from reading way more than I ever wanted to about the small pox vaccine that the preferred site has always been the arm. However, many mothers insisted that their daughters be given the vaccine in the thigh so as to hide the scar. It was discretionary between Dr./Patient.
So, that does not make probable our JD either from US or Canada.
Turns out the main reason for the vaccination being given in the arm was twofold: 1) so that it can heal, uncovered and 2) so that it could be visibly seen that you were vaccinated should another outbreak occur.
Some patients did have very large scabs, others minute.
So I would imagine if a doctor had a patient who developed a horrible one, he/she might revert to giving them in the thigh from then on. JMO
I know in the 60's we all had them done the arm in CA. So, I found this blurb kinda interesting as far as possibly using it to date a vaccine location:
I was born in New York City in May 1946, just about
nine months after VJ Day marked the end of World War II,
putting me in the vanguard of the baby boom. A smallpox
outbreak in that city in 1947 prompted the last mass
smallpox vaccination campaign in the USA, when 6 million
people were immunized in three weeks. I think I was
among them. There is a faded smallpox scar on my upper
left thigh: Back in those days girls were often vaccinated
on the thigh or even the inside of the upper arm so it
wouldn't show.
I was re-vaccinated in 1968, before a post-college graduation
trip to Europe with my friend Patty. But until she
reminded me of that last week, I had forgotten.
from here:
http://www.usatoday.com/educate/college/healthscience/casestudies/20031007-smallpox.pdf
Just setting the record straight.
Again though, that might be indicative that the victim was either at the older end of the age range, or not from the US.
If the last mass immunization against smallpox took place within a three-week period in 1947, the victim must have either been at least 20 years old (and she looks as though she could be) or not from the US.
In Canada, the general population was provided with vaccinations until 1972.
If the last mass immunization against smallpox took place within a three-week period in 1947, the victim must have either been at least 20 years old (and she looks as though she could be) or not from the US.
In Canada, the general population was provided with vaccinations until 1972.
We were all getting vaccinated through the 50's and 60's in the US also. And apparently, the location was somewhat discretionary. So the JD's birth year, could be from 1947 to 50's or whenever. In fact since the "mass immunization" "started" in 1947, I'd venture to say she was NO OLDER than 20. Yes?
Wanted to pass this on to you all: This match is still being looked into, but the info coming from Mr. Brown is also invaluable should she turn out NOT to be a match. (And I'd still like to find Glenda's body for her own peace! What a horribly sad situation that girl had to endure!) I removed his assistant's name that he refers to for privacy sake, but other than that here is his latest response in this case:
I have found a pathology record dated June 15, 1967 that reported analysis of uterine contents revealed the presence of soap and glycerol. This was the alleged chemical method of inducing abortion in this cases (versus mechanical). I've located a second death certificate for a unidentified white male stillborn fetus found in maternal uterus of this woman.
My duties at the OCME are quite extensive, so I work on these cases often after hours or when I take a lunch break. As such, I am now very pleased to have I have a laboratory technician in my employ , who previously served as a forensic intern. He (xxxxx) has a a degree in forensic anthropology and has been of tremendous assistance to me on these cases. As a recent graduate of the University of Delaware, he has boundless energy and great attention to detail. I will have (*****) compile a list of previous exclusions from the lengthy police investigation; perhaps that will provide some more clues.
While we have no idea if this will provide to be a match, we are none-the-less thinking outside the box and putting our heads together in a collaborative effort. Again, I thank you so very much and also thank so many others like yourself, who pour forth personal time and effort for our many lost and forgotten souls. Keep up the good work and I hope to hear back from you very soon with any ideas or thoughts you may have on this case. I too, will keep you posted on developments.
Very best regards, -Hal
So, if anyone has any more insight to this JD's case, please forward it to them. How totally refreshing to find someone who is as interested as we are in giving these lost souls peace. I think Hal may just be an :angel:
I have found a pathology record dated June 15, 1967 that reported analysis of uterine contents revealed the presence of soap and glycerol. This was the alleged chemical method of inducing abortion in this cases (versus mechanical). I've located a second death certificate for a unidentified white male stillborn fetus found in maternal uterus of this woman.
My duties at the OCME are quite extensive, so I work on these cases often after hours or when I take a lunch break. As such, I am now very pleased to have I have a laboratory technician in my employ , who previously served as a forensic intern. He (xxxxx) has a a degree in forensic anthropology and has been of tremendous assistance to me on these cases. As a recent graduate of the University of Delaware, he has boundless energy and great attention to detail. I will have (*****) compile a list of previous exclusions from the lengthy police investigation; perhaps that will provide some more clues.
While we have no idea if this will provide to be a match, we are none-the-less thinking outside the box and putting our heads together in a collaborative effort. Again, I thank you so very much and also thank so many others like yourself, who pour forth personal time and effort for our many lost and forgotten souls. Keep up the good work and I hope to hear back from you very soon with any ideas or thoughts you may have on this case. I too, will keep you posted on developments.
Very best regards, -Hal
So, if anyone has any more insight to this JD's case, please forward it to them. How totally refreshing to find someone who is as interested as we are in giving these lost souls peace. I think Hal may just be an :angel:
MargotKidder
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Hi, great work guys, all this information is so interesting to read, despite the sadness of this young woman's death.
I just wanted to state that while there is a seemingly greater likelihood of of someone performing this "chemical" abortion procedure on her as a patient, despite the statistics provided in the referred article above, I still think that there is an equal chance of her doing it to herself. She could have fully undressed to bathe before she decided to do it, did the procedure on herself, put her panties back on, and passed out in the bathroom due to the fat embolism a short time afterwards. While there are varying ways a relative or lover might treat the situation, due to the stigma of dying from a botched abortion, they may have treated her body that way as a result--although it is no excuse for the way that she was treated after she died.
Im not vouching for the accuracy of Hollywood film in the portrayal of chemical abortion, however, just for some reference points in film, Ill name two recent movies. It could give someone a vague "idea" of what the procedure is like. In Revolutionary Road, Kate Winslet's character does not want to have another child, and dies as a result of a self-induced chemical abortion. In the movie, Vera Drake, which takes place in Great Britain in the 1950's, her character is a woman, who is not medically trained, and visits women to give them chemical abortions. Her patient nearly dies as a result of the procedure.
I have enjoyed reading your posts, but I dont understand why most people seem to believe that someone did this to her, and that maybe she just did it to herself and died as a result. The equipment that was used to do these things varies, put perhaps she punctured herself and died as a result. While you could counter that someone was rough on her parts while doing the procedure, I can only imagine what a single pregnant women in the pre legal abortion era might do to herself to be rid of an unwanted pregnancy.
There is also a good documentary called "Leona's Sister, Gerri" which discusses the botched abortion death of Geraldine Santoro. This woman was very desperate, and I believe that she was farther along than the first trimester, but she actually had her lover do the procedure to her in a hotel room without sterilized tools or anesthetic and she died as a result of a punctured cervix. I think this would be classified as a mechanical abortion though. The crime scene picture was leaked and used at many pro-choice rallies. She was so desperate because she was still married, but seperated, from a domestically abusive spouse and she worried that he would kill her when he saw that she was pregnant. Her husband was just coming to visit their children from California. Anyway, her picture was used abundantly at pro-choice rallies as a kind of "shock" propaganda. Her living daughters discuss their feelings on this. She is in wikipedia, but her post mortem photograph is there as well, so Im not including the link. If you like to read about her, then look her up there.
Thank you, Carl, for posting this case. I hope that we can help LE find out who she is.
I just wanted to state that while there is a seemingly greater likelihood of of someone performing this "chemical" abortion procedure on her as a patient, despite the statistics provided in the referred article above, I still think that there is an equal chance of her doing it to herself. She could have fully undressed to bathe before she decided to do it, did the procedure on herself, put her panties back on, and passed out in the bathroom due to the fat embolism a short time afterwards. While there are varying ways a relative or lover might treat the situation, due to the stigma of dying from a botched abortion, they may have treated her body that way as a result--although it is no excuse for the way that she was treated after she died.
Im not vouching for the accuracy of Hollywood film in the portrayal of chemical abortion, however, just for some reference points in film, Ill name two recent movies. It could give someone a vague "idea" of what the procedure is like. In Revolutionary Road, Kate Winslet's character does not want to have another child, and dies as a result of a self-induced chemical abortion. In the movie, Vera Drake, which takes place in Great Britain in the 1950's, her character is a woman, who is not medically trained, and visits women to give them chemical abortions. Her patient nearly dies as a result of the procedure.
I have enjoyed reading your posts, but I dont understand why most people seem to believe that someone did this to her, and that maybe she just did it to herself and died as a result. The equipment that was used to do these things varies, put perhaps she punctured herself and died as a result. While you could counter that someone was rough on her parts while doing the procedure, I can only imagine what a single pregnant women in the pre legal abortion era might do to herself to be rid of an unwanted pregnancy.
There is also a good documentary called "Leona's Sister, Gerri" which discusses the botched abortion death of Geraldine Santoro. This woman was very desperate, and I believe that she was farther along than the first trimester, but she actually had her lover do the procedure to her in a hotel room without sterilized tools or anesthetic and she died as a result of a punctured cervix. I think this would be classified as a mechanical abortion though. The crime scene picture was leaked and used at many pro-choice rallies. She was so desperate because she was still married, but seperated, from a domestically abusive spouse and she worried that he would kill her when he saw that she was pregnant. Her husband was just coming to visit their children from California. Anyway, her picture was used abundantly at pro-choice rallies as a kind of "shock" propaganda. Her living daughters discuss their feelings on this. She is in wikipedia, but her post mortem photograph is there as well, so Im not including the link. If you like to read about her, then look her up there.
Thank you, Carl, for posting this case. I hope that we can help LE find out who she is.
While the circumstances of this JD's death don't match the "known" facts about Glenda's disappearance/death, just about everything apart from the location where she lived depends on the testimony, 30 years later, of Edward Gratton. He was a low-IQ male who was involved in her disappearance and who would have had good reason to minimize his role.
We do know that the body wasn't where he said it was.
The only material witness to the case, Glenda's mother (Norma Poore), was dead by the time of his testimony.
If any crime occurred in the United States rather than Canada, he'd be facing a much harsher punishment, subject of course to any statutes of limitations.
Any details that don't match this Doe's circumstances tend to minimize Gratton's role. If Gratton had had difficulty in securing a chemical abortion, and thus had to travel to the coast, he'd have been aware that Poore would have had to use another method. Therefore, if we accept that this Doe could be Glenda, however unlikely, the discrepancy in the nature of the abortion doesn't affect the likelihood and I'm pleased that she's still being looked into.
We do know that the body wasn't where he said it was.
The only material witness to the case, Glenda's mother (Norma Poore), was dead by the time of his testimony.
If any crime occurred in the United States rather than Canada, he'd be facing a much harsher punishment, subject of course to any statutes of limitations.
Any details that don't match this Doe's circumstances tend to minimize Gratton's role. If Gratton had had difficulty in securing a chemical abortion, and thus had to travel to the coast, he'd have been aware that Poore would have had to use another method. Therefore, if we accept that this Doe could be Glenda, however unlikely, the discrepancy in the nature of the abortion doesn't affect the likelihood and I'm pleased that she's still being looked into.
Anything is possible. This JD deserves a name. No matter who did the botched abortion, a laundry bag, side of the road trash dump is an unacceptable burial. And Glenda deserves a proper burial also.
Thank God, we have a Medical Examiner who gives a damn.
Thank God, we have a Medical Examiner who gives a damn.
pjclover
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Margot- excellent points. Revolutionary Road was the first thing I thought of when I read that her procedure was chemical. All the necessary items needed for that type of abortion could be easily obtained.
The reason I think that someone else was involved is because of the timing of everything. When our Doe was found she was just hours post mortem. Since we're going on the assumption that she was from out of state, there's not a large window of time for someone to discover her, put her body in a laundry basket, load her into a car, drive her to Delaware, dump her, and leave the scene if they weren't at least *present* during the procedure.
Of course, someone might have happened on her just minutes after her death, taken a look at the tubing and other items, realized what happened, and decided to dispose of her body. I just think it's a little more likely that someone was assisting or at least present.
Regardless of who performed the procedure that killed her, someone dumped her mostly nude body in a bag on the side of a road and robbed her of an identity for more than 4 decades. I'd love to know who she is.
Billylee, does Mr. Brown have any more info about the laundry bag? I'm assuming it was pretty non-descript or else there would have been some pics on NamUs, but it's worth a try.
The reason I think that someone else was involved is because of the timing of everything. When our Doe was found she was just hours post mortem. Since we're going on the assumption that she was from out of state, there's not a large window of time for someone to discover her, put her body in a laundry basket, load her into a car, drive her to Delaware, dump her, and leave the scene if they weren't at least *present* during the procedure.
Of course, someone might have happened on her just minutes after her death, taken a look at the tubing and other items, realized what happened, and decided to dispose of her body. I just think it's a little more likely that someone was assisting or at least present.
Regardless of who performed the procedure that killed her, someone dumped her mostly nude body in a bag on the side of a road and robbed her of an identity for more than 4 decades. I'd love to know who she is.
Billylee, does Mr. Brown have any more info about the laundry bag? I'm assuming it was pretty non-descript or else there would have been some pics on NamUs, but it's worth a try.
He did not say, I'm guessing it was probably generic also. The laundry bag is just one of the reason's Glenda's case makes sense, many people's laundry facilities are in their basement. So I'm sure they'll be looking into all of that. I'm sure if Gratton is still alive, (which I don't know) they'll be asking him if he remembers helping put her body in a laundry bag. (Speaking of which, wouldn't it be difficult for one person to put a body in a laundry bag by themselves?) It sounds to me like Mr. Brown is a very thorough, caring kinda guy. If anyone comes up with another possible match, I'm sure he'd look into anything that makes sense.
MargotKidder
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I whole-heartedly agree with you.
MargotKidder
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Im just curious about this, if a woman is already pregnant at the time of her death, can you tell if she has previously given birth before...besides caesarion scars? Or when they do an autopsy? I think I vaguely recollect that it has something to do with the way the cervix looks upon examination. Anyway, does anyone know if she had previously given birth before or not?
Thanks
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Past pregnancy creates scarring and pitting on the bones adjacent to the joints of the pelvis. Much of the scarring is caused by the act of childbirth, so you would know if a woman who is pregnant has previously given birth.
See Article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1749523/pdf/bullnyacadmed00161-0091.pdf